Steve Nash

[J@3]

Amare boosted his scoring and rebounding from his rookie year to his sophmore year more than he's boosted them this season, without Steve Nash. All he needs is someone capable of getting him the ball in a good position and he'll dunk it on whoever. Barbosa isn't that guy, which isn't great for Phoenix.

[Jackal]

We admit that, Stephon is more of a SG in a PG's body. So yeah, Steve's presence on the team has been a great addition to an already good Amare. He just makes him look better. We were just saying that Steve isn't the reason Amare gets his stats, he helps, no doubt but he isn't the reason.

[Boyk]

Yes true, but back on topis to steve nash, IMO i pick him as the mvp so far, mainly to the fact that its been forever since a pg won it and im biased coz i play pg for my team and know how important a good one is lol

but yer, IMO Steve Nash

[air gordon]

jackal: the only similarity amare and shaq share is that they can dunk with authority. amare's game is not all power. he has an amazingly quick first step, can step out and hit jumpers, has a face up game, can run on the break, and hit free throws. all were on display when the suns drubbed the heat

fgrep15, i guess i should be giving more credit to marion then i should be

[Jackal]

I didn't say his game was all power? He has a power game and other things in his arsenal. But if you had to compare him with one of the few successfull big men today, I wouldn't do that with Duncan. I'd rather compare him to Shaq.

[fgrep15]

5-12FG's vs Utah
10-21FG's vs Indiana
9-24FG's vs Washington
5-18FG's vs Detroit

Nash was there vs Utah??

Detroit wasn't because of Nash not being there in terms of Amare's struggles, it was because Detroit's post guys harrased Amare all game. Amare was 3-7 in the first game against the Wizards also, I think Brendan Haywood and Jared Jefferies might have something to do with his bad shoting because if you watched the games he get's right in the paint, and Haywood would always be there to challenge, and Jared Jefferies came and got many blocks from behind.

Their's some teams who have players athletic enough to get at him, and others don't, Detroit also made Amare a jumpshooter because like has been mentioned their was no PG. Amare can shoot the jumpshot well now from mid-range, but isn't a jumpshooter.

vs Indiana, 10-21 vs Jermaine O'neal isn't bad at all....



Think of it this way, the MVP award goes to the league's most valuable player, the player that wins this award can normally be put on any at least decent team and will carry them to the playoffs and/or more.

That can't be said with Nash, Nash is a guy I'd call a team MVP, and a league MVP candidate, but not a league MVP. Amare isn't a league MVP either. The Suns needs Nash because they have no one else to run their offense, so he's very valuable to their team, but Nash can't be put on teams around the league and carry them or have the same effect. If we put Nash on the Raptors, he wouldn't make them the 3rd place team in the East, Duncan, KG or Shaq would make them top 2.

Same with Amare, the Suns need him, because without him they have no inside presence at all, he's their leading scorer shooting almost 60%, so if they lose him, they go down, but he's not a player you can insert on team X, and expect to make a huge difference to them

Put someone like Brevin Knight on the Suns, and they'll be able to play with the best still. Put Kirk Hinrich there, and they'll be a pretty good team.

[Alcoholic]

You guys know Nash got injured again?

During practice today he got tangled up with barbosa, and now he has back spasms. Barbosa is out too with a sprained ankle...

[Amphatoast]

lol, time to show the world how weak the suns bench is

[fgrep15]

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/nash_050118.html

It's time for them to make some trade for or sign a PG or else they're screwed. Joe Johnson running the offense isn't going to work at all. They should start looking at all the vets out there, is Rod Strickland still around?

I mean it will work against the weaker teams, but they won't be beating the Pistons or anyone like that for a while.

Well I think it was said before, I said it when he was signed that Nash does have late season breakdowns, and many knew he was injury prone, but I didn't expect anything so early.

[Matt]

oh man this is a huge blow.....well, you've heard here first....Suns will not be winning 60 games

[Colin]

They will win 60 games. They will win their division. They will be at least the second seed.

Will.

[John WB]

Bottomline is Nash is what got the Suns to the #1 record in the league. They didn't even make the Playoffs last year. That's an MVP.

That's like saying the Wizards didn't even make the playoffs last year so Jamison should be MVP

I'm not saying that isn't relevant, but I think I already said it, before anyone says that nonsense they have to realize they also didn't have Q-Rich last season, Amare missed 27 games last season, they had no PG, and they weren't even playing to win anymore after a while.

Did the Wizards have the best record in the league?

Amare doesn't need Steve Nash per se, all he needs is a playmaker. He'll finish.

Phoenix has no playmaker at the moment, thus Amare can't finish. Amare did well the years before because of Stephon, he was also a playmaker.

Steve is a big factor, but he's not the sole factor. I think fgrep was the one to say that if you put in some other PG, they would be doing fine. Amare's stats wouldn't be what you just showed us, playmaker + Amare = good stats.

No playmaker + Amare = not good stats.

The keyword is playmaker, not Steve.

I think you're right in some sense, but with any other PG I don't know if you could say that they'd be as good as they are now. I don't think you're giving Steve Nash enough credit.

After all, the Suns weren't even close to this good with Stephon Marbury.

[J@3]

If Brevin Knight can manage 10apg with Charlotte, I'd love to see what he could do with Phoenix.

[Jackal]

Put in a real playmaking PG and they'd be close to where they are. Marbury isn't a playmaking PG, he's a scoring PG. Nash is a playmaker, Marbury is a scorer and then he's a playmaker.

[cklitsie]

Suns should sign Tim Hardaway or John Stockton

[Jackal]

Pssh, I doubt Stockton would return.

I do think Strickland is still out there, somewhere. Although he scares me since he always looks like a zombie, he'd be a good pickup.

[fgrep15]

What you say really makes no sense. You're basically giving a "what if" for MVP candidates. What they would do on other teams means nothing. How valuable to the one they are on is what matters.

Honestly, if those are the standards you use, how could anyone be a legit MVP? We could sit here and play the exchange game with players and we could always find someone who would do a similar job. Even if we did that, it'd still be theory... Something that isn't considered a factor in determining the MVP award.

Whether or not Nash is the MVP is debatable. But c'mon, don't make the "you could put any play maker on their team" argument. You don't know that. It's a "what if." I think Duncan and Garnett cancel each other out. Should they be ruled out of the MVP voting because of that!?

Well since you really didn't understand what I was saying then don't worry about it...

Did the Wizards have the best record in the league?

Didn't I say they didn't make the playoffs last season?


About Marbury, he isn't a playmaking PG, and when he was there Amare wasn't as good, especially defensively where he's still only average. They still didn't have depth, and Quentin Richardson wasn't on the team, so they couldn't go small with Casey Jacobsen, therefore Jake Voskuhl was starting.

[Sauru]

Bottomline is Nash is what got the Suns to the #1 record in the league. They didn't even make the Playoffs last year. That's an MVP.

best post in this topic right here. when a guy makes everyone on his team better and helps them to the top record thats mvp status. now i am not gonna sit here and scream nash for mvp, i just think he got the idea of what a mvp really is about.

[fgrep15]

Joe Johnson was playing PG today, it's just getting funny, I think they went out and signed Smush Parker because Barbosa also got injured.

Ouch! Amare has been struggling, he averaged 2 dunks a game last season, and is averaging 3 a game this season, but I guess the matchups hurt since he's gone against JO, the Pistons frontcourt, and then had a tough time against Stromile who can jump right with him today.

That's sad though, maybe they can try Marion at PG next game

Shows how important a PG can be to a team, kinda reminds me of Cleveland last year, think of their record with and without Jeff McInnis.

[Colin]

If I don't ever post again it's because they have put me away for attempting to kill alll NBA players that don't play for the Suns.

[air gordon]

I didn't say his game was all power? He has a power game and other things in his arsenal.

really? couldn't tell since you are saying he "isn't a tim duncan like player" but a "shaq like player, he's got a power game". shaq= power game, duncan =versatile offensive repetoire

But if you had to compare him with one of the few successfull big men today, I wouldn't do that with Duncan. I'd rather compare him to Shaq.

why compare him to shaq? shaq almost exclusively operates on the low block. as i mentioned earlier, stoudemire is like shaq in that he dunks with authority. but he's not limited to that

like duncan, amare can face up opponents, hit medium range shots, and score in low post. possibly even KG is a better comparison

[fgrep15]

Just agree he's like Shawn Kemp and let it all end

I'd say he's most similar to none really, he's really not like any of them, doesn't have as good a jumpshot or near the post skills that Duncan has, doesn't have the post up power game that Shaq has, and isn't as perimeter oriented as KG is.

He also doesn't have near the passing or rebounding skill of any of them right now, and still needs work defensively to get up to being a good defender from jsut average.

[air gordon]

Just agree he's like Shawn Kemp and let it all end

I'd say he's most similar to none really, he's really not like any of them, doesn't have as good a jumpshot or near the post skills that Duncan has, doesn't have the post up power game that Shaq has, and isn't as perimeter oriented as KG is.

He also doesn't have near the passing or rebounding skill of any of them right now, and still needs work defensively to get up to being a good defender from jsut average.

of course he's not as good in certain facets as the aforementined.
i'm just saying his game is closer to duncan's, not shaq's. but wouldn't that be awesome if a player who made the jump from high school to the pros became one of the best post players in just 3 years!

i say he would be kenny thomas was taller and had super athleticism

[fgrep15]

Haha yea

You know what has been overlooked in the Suns bad play lately, Quentin Richardson. Yes everyone will think, how can you blame the guy who's like the 4th option on the team, but Q-Rich has averaged shooting about 7-19 their past few games, and 5-17 since they started losing. He should never take more than 12 shots in a game with how he shoots.

His rebounding hasn't even been the same with him getting 3 vs the Pistons, and 0 vs Indiana, and he's been averaging like 2.2 assists a game in the stretch, and had 1 vs Jazz, and 0 vs Grizzlies.

He's been reminding me of the Richardson I hated on the Clippers because he takes idiotic shots and is a chucker/ball stopper. When Nash was there, his offensive efficiency and contagious ability to get them moving the ball allowed them to survive through nights of Q-Rich taking 17 three's and making only 4, or his shooting 5-20 from the field. He's also been averaging 2.7 turnovers recently which isn't too much till you consider all he does is camp outside the arc and shoot three's.

[air gordon]

maybe it's time the coaching staff finally steps in and tells 'q' to chill out with 3's. it's really disappointing to see players fall in love with 3 ball/perimeter shot and abandon their other skills

i'd really like to see him return his 6th man role where he can assume that role of dogging opposing reserve guards on the offensive boards/blocks