NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

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NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:29 am

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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby Andrew on Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:32 pm

Definitely not unexpected after the radio silence.

I'm in two minds about the situation, because it's a double-edged sword after all. Even though the game was never officially released or previewed, the stigma of it being cancelled - it was listed as an upcoming release, so technically it's correct to say it's a cancellation - is one that hurts a series that has been struggling for some time, and has a reputation for having to pull the plug on releases (NBA Elite 11, NBA Live 13, and NBA Live 17/The Drive to NBA Live). It's not a great look and doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. It's also missing out on a prime opportunity, because of NBA 2K20's poor reception.

However, there's also merit in holding it back and making it a better product. I think it worked for NBA Live 18 (even if it wasn't the big jump the series needed), and it feels like they need more than a year to get the game to where it needs to be, from modes to gameplay. A cancellation may hurt them, but so would releasing a disappointing game. Again, it's a double-edged sword, and they have to pick what feels like the lesser of two evils. This is being done with the quality of the game in mind, so it's probably the right call.

Of course, they did the same thing with NBA Live 13, so NBA Live 21 cannot afford to be another NBA Live 14. It was rough, bare bones, and after the long wait for the series to return, a major letdown. I know a lot of hard work went into it and there were a lot of problems with turnover on the team and trying to adapt the new IGNITE engine for basketball, but it was what it was all the same. A new generation doesn't guarantee success, but here's hoping we won't see a repeat of that.

They also need to pick the right direction. As I've said before, NBA Live 19 was not a good direction in my view; it was half-NBA Live, half-NBA Street, and not far enough in either direction to please fans of either genre. While I don't want them to be doing everything the same as NBA 2K, I believe they must provide some of the same experiences as far as sim-oriented basketball is concerned, because that's how you're going to draw interest away from 2K and be a viable alternative. EA have mentioned a new demographic for NBA Live, but I don't know what that demographic is apart from the ones who are already playing basketball video games, and they largely prefer NBA 2K. They need to do their own thing, but like 2K, provide the experiences that are expected of a 5v5 sim-oriented NBA licensed video game.

Here's hoping for the best. With EA's new partnership with Valve, a PC release via Steam wouldn't go astray either.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby ThaLiveKing on Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:10 pm

when I seen

“With the next generation of systems coming, EA is determined not to make the same mistakes again,” the source said. “They want a smooth transition, and don’t want to spend years recovering from the jump.”

I knew it was coming. There's just not enough devs working on the game to finish this year's product and then work on next year's game. I had stuff written down to make content but oh well. I guess It will have to wait.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby matmat66 on Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:22 pm

This is really a let down for me. It is always good to have an alternative basketball game in case you have game fatigue on one.

My concern is historically, EA has a poor track record of Live games for new systems. For PS1, NBA Live 96 and 97 were not good but EA managed to get it done by Live 98. EA did better for the PS2 with Live 2002 picking up significantly from the first console release Live 2001. It god worst for Xbox 360/PS3 when they released NBA Live 06, 07 and 08, all poor games for the new consoles then. They managed to pick it up by Live 09 and reached the pinnacle for that console era with Live 10.

Then NBA Elite 11 happened and EA no longer developed any game for that generation of console and decided to focus on the PS4.

The first release was NBA Live 14 which was bad. There was a slight improvement with Live 15 and 16 and then it looked like EA was making a stride with Live 18 which a lot of people in this community enjoyed playing. Then Live 19 which was still ok although the sim part was really wanting.

Now, EA is focusing on developing Live for the next generation of console (PS5). I am hoping that they really come up with a good game but based on the track record, this could be unlikely but I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby eirik on Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:08 pm

yikes, better than releasing a trash game I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby [Q] on Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:08 pm

Man, part of me is wishfully thinking that this extra time will help them make an amazing game that's ready to launch day 1 of the PS5 next holiday season.

Historically, we've been let down time and time again so it's hard to be positive about this
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby truefaith0826 on Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:41 pm

Disappointing. Why are they reinventing the wheel?

I have been an NBA live fan since the 90s. It was lots of fun because it was simple and straightforward basketball. Using the next gen as an excuse not to release it. Really? that's the best they can come up with?

When they release it in next gen, I doubt the fun will be there or at least stay consistent and competetive against 2k.

Cmon EA, you are better than that, is it really that complicated to pinpoint their main problem in fixing their game.

I'm sorry. I simply don't get it.

EA, please listen to the people here in NLSC. They know their stuff.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 am

I actually consider this a positive... if the situation is handled correctly.

They probably had quite a few people already working on NBA Live 2021, whether it be brainstorming or just getting certain things in place. But they also had an entire dev team of people working on NBA Live 20, that dev team can now stop on Live 20 and start working on Live 2021 immediately. That is a lot more hands on the process, much earlier than they would have been.

At this point, Live doesn't have a sizeable audience on this gen, as they have made so many blunders over the last 13 years and with the releases on this gen as well. Releasing Live 20 just to "put another release out there", while garnering probably the same consumer numbers as they had for Live 19, doesn't seem like it's worth it. However, ALL EYES will be on PS5 and the new generation of consoles, the excitement surrounding it will be unreal. THAT is where they can make the ultimate impression, where they can turn the most heads, where they can actually make some legitimate noise. If they come out swinging on PS5 with amazing graphics, smooth and reactive gameplay, and they truly beef up the content within the game (Make modes deeper, more modes, appeal to more than the young teen demographic), they could legitimately be back in the picture... in ONE YEAR. Let me explain...

When I say back in the picture, I don't mean equally or coming close to equaling the sales numbers of 2K21. I mean they would gain consumer and potential consumers respect (And respect back for those who have been around for awhile), prove that they are making the NBA games a priority, and could get a large number of people to switch or buy both. This would be a HUGE step in the right direction, and actually give them true momentum (When is the last time people were WOW'd! by an NBA Live game?). The new game will most certainly be released with a new motion system/Graphics system, with some similarities that was in place for Live 19. While Live 19 wasn't a home run, and certainly didn't move the dial enough in the right direction, it had some decent bones to it gameplay wise.

They must make the NBA product a priority. The popularity of the NBA is at an all-time high (At the height of social media and gaming as well), it's the perfect storm, and 2K has taken full advantage of it. But with all those gamers in that space, all those people interested in basketball and in the NBA in particular, and with only ONE company making games for that genre, it is an absolute shock to me that more companies have not been atleast attempting to get into the space, especially with unfavorable feelings and a bit of burn out from part of the 2K playing base. At this point, it is the ONLY viable option in NBA/basketball gaming. Meaning, if you love the NBA, or playing basketball games online, you have no other choice.

Short term sacrifice, long term gain. Live needs to put all hands on deck and create a head turner on PS5. An all around product that puts them back in the conversation.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby Andrew on Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:11 am

I tend to agree, but I can also see it working against the brand. It's another cancellation, another promise that it's being done for the greater good and that the extra time will lead to a much better game that leaves gamers feeling sceptical. I certainly hope that it pans out and I'm not ruling out that possibility, but we've seen that promise made before and been let down, so there's going to be some pessimism. It's unavoidable.

There's also the issue of people delighting in shouting "fail!" and smirking at someone or something's downfall, especially if they're a staunch supporter of the other side. There certainly is that tribalism in basketball gaming, and certain influencers/talking heads/commentators who will focus on the negative or even outright dance on the grave. Not that it's wrong to point out the downsides as well as the shortcomings of the series in general, but it adds to the doom and gloom of the announcement.

I'd like to think it's for the best, and like I said, releasing a subpar game that doesn't move the needle isn't much better as far as inspiring confidence in the brand. They were in a difficult spot either way though; again, it's a double-edged sword. The only solution is to release a better game, and if that can be done with the extra time they're taking and the leap to a new generation, then it's worth the risk.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby [Q] on Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:05 am

I think they're in a better position than before, as they literally had to start from scratch with 14 but at least they can use 19 and build off of that
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:01 am

ThaLiveKing wrote:There's just not enough devs working on the game to finish this year's product and then work on next year's game.


I stated that in my post as well, they need all hands on deck for the development of Live 2021, that cannot happen if the majority of the dev team is still working on a late release of Live 2020.

I agree that its different this time around than the Live 14 situation, but I am still a bit worried, as I am not sure that they have a clear direction at the moment (Like what they want included mode and content wise), and what they truly want to focus on.

I'm going to keep submitting feedback and suggestions to the dev team, and preaching how important it is to create and all around product that is also great first impression wise. They need to make a game that is great for pick up and play, and basketball enthusiasts, as well as make it well rounded enough so that it appeals to multiple demographics.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby [Q] on Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:51 am

I think their biggest struggle with 18 & 19 was the push and pull between pvp gameplay vs offline/pve gameplay. My God they would release a fun game out of the box and wreck it with patches after people complain on Reddit that it's not how they want the game to play. It's pretty obvious now that they need two sets of different sliders to keep both interesting, fun, and balanced. I hope they figure this out for the next one.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby ThaLiveKing on Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:25 am

[Q] wrote:I think their biggest struggle with 18 & 19 was the push and pull between pvp gameplay vs offline/pve gameplay. My God they would release a fun game out of the box and wreck it with patches after people complain on Reddit that it's not how they want the game to play. It's pretty obvious now that they need two sets of different sliders to keep both interesting, fun, and balanced. I hope they figure this out for the next one.


NHL got 4 different sets of sliders to appease to a category of fanbase, and you can adjust those same sliders offline. I'm not sure why EA SPORTS games don't take that approach. When you play Madden on COMP or SIM, the slider set in the menu is the same, you should be able to see what was adjusted. One reason I play on Arcade in Madden lol.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby ThaLiveKing on Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:27 am

[Q] wrote:I think they're in a better position than before, as they literally had to start from scratch with 14 but at least they can use 19 and build off of that


yeah, after playing Volta, and they had Live devs working on that mode, I am confident if they can get Live to play that way, it would 100x better than the competition for OTP
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby StyxTx on Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:55 am

Andrew wrote:Definitely not unexpected after the radio silence.

It's also missing out on a prime opportunity, because of NBA 2K20's poor reception.



Poor reception, but record sales.

That is something I just don't understand. Every year they put out a worse game than the year before yet they set sales records every year. If all these people feel so bad about the game, why do they keep buying it? The excuse that it's the only game really is kind of lame to me because even if a certain game is the only game of it's kind, if it's a bad product, I don't keep shelling out $ every year for it and the spend the rest of the time complaining about it. I haven't bought the last 2 versions of the game but I'm perfectly happy with the other games I have.

These companies care about 1 thing, and complaints tend to fall on deaf ears if the earnings keep going up and up. Seriously, what incentive do they have to improve or fix anything? They aren't paying any penalty for a poor product.

There are just too many other games out there, even though they aren't a basketball game, to be wasting my money on 2k.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby [Q] on Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:41 pm

Right? It's a shame, but I just choose not to buy an NBA video game.

The only way this gets fixed is competition. But we are still years away from something like that happening
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby Andrew on Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:19 pm

2K's the in thing, and if you want a sim-oriented basketball game with deep experiences, it's still far and away the best option. That makes it harder to boycott even with how disgruntled people are feeling, because if you want to play online with your friends and against the largest userbase - which tends to shift to the newest game - you don't really have a choice. I also think it's safe to say that gamers were taken in by what turned out to be flat out lies and broken promises, so some who were planning a boycott probably thought "Well, that does sound good, so I'll give it a try". It's not until people get their hands on the game that they discover all the bugs, the lies and lack of goodwill, and so forth. But again, it's still the basketball game with the most to offer every year, so it survives the outrage.

As for NBA Live, I definitely agree with the challenges faced by a smaller team, as well as the issues with balancing the game for offline/online (also an issue in 2K), and patches breaking the game post-release. Some of the mechanics don't lend themselves well to the changes the patches make, either. I believe the Shot Meter (and by extension the release mechanics) in NBA Live 19 is far too long, and it allows CPU defenders to recover and contest shots too easily, because it takes too long to reach the optimal release point. That's less of an issue online because of user reaction speeds, but the tweak to address shooting online completely broke the offline gameplay.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby StyxTx on Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:36 am

Andrew wrote:2K's the in thing, and if you want a sim-oriented basketball game with deep experiences, it's still far and away the best option. That makes it harder to boycott even with how disgruntled people are feeling, because if you want to play online with your friends and against the largest userbase - which tends to shift to the newest game - you don't really have a choice. I also think it's safe to say that gamers were taken in by what turned out to be flat out lies and broken promises, so some who were planning a boycott probably thought "Well, that does sound good, so I'll give it a try". It's not until people get their hands on the game that they discover all the bugs, the lies and lack of goodwill, and so forth. But again, it's still the basketball game with the most to offer every year, so it survives the outrage.

As for NBA Live, I definitely agree with the challenges faced by a smaller team, as well as the issues with balancing the game for offline/online (also an issue in 2K), and patches breaking the game post-release. Some of the mechanics don't lend themselves well to the changes the patches make, either. I believe the Shot Meter (and by extension the release mechanics) in NBA Live 19 is far too long, and it allows CPU defenders to recover and contest shots too easily, because it takes too long to reach the optimal release point. That's less of an issue online because of user reaction speeds, but the tweak to address shooting online completely broke the offline gameplay.


The thing is they get taken in by lies and broken promises every year. So why should 2k stop lying and deceiving? Is it 2k's fault that users continue to fall for the BS? Is it 2k's fault that so many people preorder the game without knowing what they're paying for? It's like, here is this year's cover picture, now preorder, and people do!

The goodwill has been gone for years. There is none. At all. As long as they money keeps rolling in, don't expect any change in 2k's M.O.

Why does anyone believe that things will get better, ever? At some point, the user base has to take the blame, at least some of it, for doing nothing more than complaining. Sorry, but complaints alone will not change how 2k does business.

I will say it again, there are so many other games out there that can be played with friends. There is a world outside of basketball.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby Andrew on Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:09 am

There are plenty of other games, but if it's virtual basketball you want to play, that's your main (and more than once in the past decade, only) option. I agree that the userbase shares responsibility, but a boycott is easier said than done if a basketball game is what you want to play.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby StyxTx on Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:43 am

Andrew wrote:There are plenty of other games, but if it's virtual basketball you want to play, that's your main (and more than once in the past decade, only) option. I agree that the userbase shares responsibility, but a boycott is easier said than done if a basketball game is what you want to play.


Well, if a broken game, and getting more broken with each passing edition, is better than nothing, so be it. They should know by now how things are going to be regardless of the BS the 2k sales department says. Those people need to stop complaining. It does no good.

There is no need to buy a new version until the game gets fixed. The idea that it's the only way they can play is true, but that argument is also kinda moot since they are already playing. It does not mean they have to continue to shell out more money for a new game every year, especially since most of the changes are nothing more than eye candy. If people want the game fixed, play the version you have now until they actually fix the game.

It surprises me how many people act surprised by a broken game year in and year out as well as how many of the same issues get complained about every single year. By now all the issues are old news and not surprising. At some point it should occur to people that those things are not going to get fixed, not without some incentive to make the company fix them.

Supporting the game with the money you give them is more or less telling them you approve of what they are doing. Your money speaks louder than your words. It is a business and money is all that matters.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby Andrew on Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:27 pm

It is. That's a big part of the problem, along with the lack of a viable alternative.
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Re: NBA Live 20 Officially CANCELLED

Postby Andrew on Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:20 am

Dee4Three and i discussed the cancellation in Episode #298 of the NLSC Podcast: https://www.nba-live.com/nlsc-podcast-2 ... d-we-miss/
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