Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby [Q] on Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:35 am

Spurs got a pretty good deal considering they had lost most of their leverage. Getting DeMar and a young big for someone they would have lost anyways is a big win for them.

Raptors take the L especially if he turns out to be a one year rental although not completely because like Andrew said it is an expiring contract
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby I Hate Mondays on Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:59 am

My Raptors, what are you doing...
Who in the world thought Leonard would stay in Toronto next year. Coach was fired, the Lowry-DeRozan bromance was broken; I expect a painful season to watch.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby cavs4872 on Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:14 am

Dee4Three wrote:
cavs4872 wrote:Bloody murder for the Raps; good for them - they get Green and the pick is protected (not a huge deal, but just another plus for them)?!

Might end up benefiting both teams.

... And I just read the part he doesn't want to play in Toronto; that about balances it.

Andrew wrote:On the other hand, it will clear plenty of cap space and allow them to start over if Kawhi walks. They seemed to have peaked as a team that's really good to great in the regular season, but mediocre come Playoff time. Kind of reminds me of some of the Hawks teams from the 90s, if I had to make an historical comparison.

Or even the 2015 Hawks.


I don't agree with this at all. Not only did the Spurs get a primed Demar Derozan, but THEY (You said the Raptors did) received a protected first round pick (1-20), and an underrated Jakob Poeltl. He is 22, and hasn't hit his ceiling. He played inspiring basketball last season in limited minutes, and plays a position that the Spurs sorely needed support at (Center). Pau's aging body was playing extended minutes last season, and when he was out they were playing Bertans (Poor defender/rim protector/rebounder). This move possibly allows Pau to play off the bench, or atleast get extended rest.

The move allows the Spurs to stay competitive now, while also building for the future. I think this was the best deal they could have taken, considering the circumstances. Derozan may be unhappy that Toronto traded him (rightfully so), but he will report to the Spurs and will fit in nicely in that system. As far as the Raptors go, so many questions exist. One, will Leonard play his heart out for a team he doesn't want to play for? Will he be 100% healthy? Will they have enough success to sway him to sign longer term? Danny Green is on the back-end of his prime, but will help the Raptors (He is 31).

More questions exist for the Raptors than the Spurs in this one, and I think both teams potentially won this deal. We will have to reflect on it again after this season, but I like the deal for both teams at the moment (Assuming Leonard reports to the Raptors and plays hard/is healthy)

Now that I had time to digest the bigger picture, it kinda seems inconsequential both ways; both stars are unhappy - it's just a repeat of the Kyrie trade, and Cavs fans right now are kicking themselves we had to trade him, because we didn't, and if we didn't we would be sitting fine right now. Be a professional and get paid crazy money to throw a ball in a hoop while kids starve in third-world countries... sorry to make that so bleak. :shock:

Everything is the NBA seems inconsequential with the Dubs...
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby air gordon on Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:37 am

wonderful trade for the raptors. team peaked last year and now they are contenders again (well assuming leonard is on board and healthy). demar and just a rotational big (and get to keep wright, OG) was worth the risk in landing a legit MVP candidate
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby Sauru on Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:08 am

air gordon wrote:wonderful trade for the raptors. team peaked last year and now they are contenders again (well assuming leonard is on board and healthy). demar and just a rotational big (and get to keep wright, OG) was worth the risk in landing a legit MVP candidate



if he walks and they dont win it all this season it will back fire big time. this has already pissed off most of their fans and trading the 1 player who seemed to be happy playing for your team is not going to do much in helping them sign free agents. of course a ring erases all pain but there is zero chance that is gonna happen. they aint even making the finals without some serious injuries
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby Andrew on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:20 pm

Sauru wrote:if he walks and they dont win it all this season it will back fire big time. this has already pissed off most of their fans and trading the 1 player who seemed to be happy playing for your team is not going to do much in helping them sign free agents. of course a ring erases all pain but there is zero chance that is gonna happen. they aint even making the finals without some serious injuries


Good point. If Leonard walks they'll have cap space to start over, but that's a tougher sell after trading away one of the most loyal players in the history of the franchise.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby Jeffx on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:07 am

Sauru wrote:
air gordon wrote:wonderful trade for the raptors. team peaked last year and now they are contenders again (well assuming leonard is on board and healthy). demar and just a rotational big (and get to keep wright, OG) was worth the risk in landing a legit MVP candidate



if he walks and they dont win it all this season it will back fire big time. this has already pissed off most of their fans and trading the 1 player who seemed to be happy playing for your team is not going to do much in helping them sign free agents. of course a ring erases all pain but there is zero chance that is gonna happen. they aint even making the finals without some serious injuries


Bingo. I don't get this at all.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby air gordon on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:18 am

Sauru wrote:if he walks and they dont win it all this season it will back fire big time. this has already pissed off most of their fans and trading the 1 player who seemed to be happy playing for your team is not going to do much in helping them sign free agents. of course a ring erases all pain but there is zero chance that is gonna happen. they aint even making the finals without some serious injuries

Win it all? Who is making that unrealistic lofty expectation?

I don’t claim to know the pulse of our neighbors up North. Limited cap and drafting mid to late 1st round puts a ceiling on the team for the next few years. Maybe toronto fans preferred making the playoffs/exiting 1st/2nd round AKA nba purgatory
Andrew wrote:but that's a tougher sell after trading away one of the most loyal players in the history of the franchise.

Too bad Demar is gone but sentimentality/loyalty is overrated/caveman thinking in the modern NBA. the great Ainge did the devil's deed with IT. and on the players side, you're seeing the best players take short term contracts over a bigger payday.

the raptors have been able to sign their own FA’s since Ujiri has taken over. Ujiri is underrated as a solid gm and has done great job of cleaning up colangelo's mess. the narrative of no one wants to play in toronto is just not true
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby shadowgrin on Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:23 am

Former Raptor Charlie Villanueva snitching again:

I remember when Bryan Colangelo and Sam Mitchell told me I wasn’t getting traded from Toronto, and Sam saying “if Micheal Jordan comes out of retirement is the only way we trading you” Literally the next day I was traded to Milwaukee.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:44 am

shadowgrin wrote:Former Raptor Charlie Villanueva snitching again:

I remember when Bryan Colangelo and Sam Mitchell told me I wasn’t getting traded from Toronto, and Sam saying “if Micheal Jordan comes out of retirement is the only way we trading you” Literally the next day I was traded to Milwaukee.


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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby [Q] on Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:47 am

Sauru wrote:
air gordon wrote:wonderful trade for the raptors. team peaked last year and now they are contenders again (well assuming leonard is on board and healthy). demar and just a rotational big (and get to keep wright, OG) was worth the risk in landing a legit MVP candidate



if he walks and they dont win it all this season it will back fire big time. this has already pissed off most of their fans and trading the 1 player who seemed to be happy playing for your team is not going to do much in helping them sign free agents. of course a ring erases all pain but there is zero chance that is gonna happen. they aint even making the finals without some serious injuries

Win it all, meaning win the east? Would it be a success if they finally made it to the Finals just to lose to the Warriors? No guarantees, as they still have to get by Philadelphia and Boston

Toronto fans would be pissed if he left but I'm pretty sure it's not because the team "let him go", since he's hell bent on going to LA or whatever. It could be a blessing if they sign a big free agent in his place like a Jimmy Butler or someone. But look at their last big signing... Demarre Carroll?
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby Sauru on Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:22 am

i am not saying they have a chance to win it all i am saying its the only way this trade is not monumentally stupid for the raptors. wtf trades away their only loyal superstar in the teams history for a 1 year rental? winning a ring makes everything ok though.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby NovU on Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:04 pm

Kawhi deal makes the Celtica fans upset now now. The Raptors to Finals, I love this trade. New king has arrived in east lol.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby [Q] on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:05 pm

Sauru wrote:i am not saying they have a chance to win it all i am saying its the only way this trade is not monumentally stupid for the raptors. wtf trades away their only loyal superstar in the teams history for a 1 year rental? winning a ring makes everything ok though.

Yeah, true it's a all-in move by the raptors
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby Sauru on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:07 pm

NovU wrote:Kawhi deal makes the Celtica fans upset now now. The Raptors to Finals, I love this trade. New king has arrived in east lol.



what celtics fan is upset over this? if anything celtics fans are very happy about this. i dont know a single person from boston who wanted to see him land in LA with lebron
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby benji on Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:49 pm

It's a good deal for the Raptors, the team maxed out, DeRozan was an overall negative especially at his price. If Leonard stays it's an upgrade, if he bolts it opens them up towards the rebuild they need to make anyway.

It's a good deal for the Spurs, Pop doesn't want to coach a lottery team, they can bump up to 50 wins or so, make the playoffs one or two more times and he can retire. Then they can start on the rebuild they need to make anyway.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby air gordon on Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:56 pm

winning a title didn't stop Irving asking out of cleveland ;)

i guess in the aspect of keeping old man Pop happy before he hangs it up it was good for the Spurs. i think big picture it was just ok. they didn't a get a good young prospect or draft pick and/or shed some salary. demar is a good player but fresh off yet another poor playoff performance. benched game 3 & ejected game 4. yeesh.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby NovU on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:42 am

Sauru wrote:
NovU wrote:Kawhi deal makes the Celtica fans upset now now. The Raptors to Finals, I love this trade. New king has arrived in east lol.



what celtics fan is upset over this? if anything celtics fans are very happy about this. i dont know a single person from boston who wanted to see him land in LA with lebron

Oh yeah? Lets talk again when the playoffs season looms around.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby NovU on Sun May 26, 2019 6:14 pm

This thread is a gold mine. Almost comical, but at the same time its elegant and beautiful.

Bright minds of NLSC, lets go continue our discussion.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby Andrew on Sun May 26, 2019 7:19 pm

I mean, if we want to look back and smugly chuckle at predictions and conjecture that didn't pan out, we also need to point out certain predictions about players like Cameron Payne. I don't think any of us are perfect from the field at this point, and hindsight is 20/20, as the saying goes!

But yes, the deal has worked out splendidly for the Raptors. I think it was fair to question Kawhi being all in for a team he seemingly didn't want to go to (after demanding out of San Antonio of all places), as well as wonder about his health given that he missed all but nine games the previous season. Even this season, there seemed to be a bit of a concern when he missed 22 games; a knee-jerk reaction, probably, but also understandable given that other talented players have had their careers derailed by a lack of durability following a severe injury. So far so good, though. He's back to form, been awesome in the Playoffs, and at least outwardly seems to be happy where he is.

The possibility of him leaving in the offseason still looms, and it's going to be a nagging thought until his future is decided one way or another. LeBron is actively recruiting, and anyone with money is going to throw their hat into the ring. That being said, the fact that it has come together for the Raptors this season and they're in the Finals does bode extremely well for their ability to keep him, or so one would think, anyway.

DeRozan has fit in with the Spurs, but he's not Kawhi, and they're not the team they were a few years ago. It still a pretty good deal for them, considering the seeming lack of leverage they had with Kawhi asking to be traded. I don't know if there's ever truly a great way of letting a superstar go, short of some video game-esque blockbuster deal where players like Kobe Bryant and LeBron James get traded for each other in their prime, but it might be as close as you're going to get to that oxymoron being a thing.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby air gordon on Sun May 26, 2019 10:46 pm

Good grave dig. Steak for novu on the house
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby Dee4Three on Mon May 27, 2019 1:16 am

Andrew wrote:I mean, if we want to look back and smugly chuckle at predictions and conjecture that didn't pan out, we also need to point out certain predictions about players like Cameron Payne. I don't think any of us are perfect from the field at this point, and hindsight is 20/20, as the saying goes!


I mean, we all thought super high of Cameron Payne... right?.... RIGHT???

But yeah, I stick by my entire post on the first page, because when I made it it was relevant and my concerns were valid. Kawhi played 9 games the previous season, nobody knew the extent of his injury because so much about it was hidden from the public, and chemistry, commitment, and effort issues were in question. All of which made it sort of a gamble for Toronto if it didnt pan out.

My comments about it being a good trade for both teams stands as well. The Spurs were one win (a few points away) from advancing in the playoffs this year, and nobody knew that Dejounte Murray was going to go down right at the beginning of the season. Are people forgetting that piece? He could have been the difference in the series vs Denver. He is the PG of the future for them. Also like I said, it allowed the Spurs to not cripple the future while staying competitive in the present. The trade was still good for both sides, even after this season and playoff run.

And we are still unsure about the future for Kawhi, and what he will do. The lure to stay in TOR might be more now that they made the finals, especially if they win the title. But, living situation for a guy as simple as Kawhi might outweigh who he is playing for. He has a strong desire to live in LA (with the Clippers would be my guess), I wouldn't be surprised if he still walked.
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby Andrew on Tue May 28, 2019 1:32 pm

Kawhi Leonard’s ‘Uncle Dennis’ speaks: ‘He’s ready for this moment’

Leonard and Robertson have never openly addressed why the three-time All-Star requested a trade from the Spurs last offseason. For much of the 2017-18 season, Leonard battled a right quad injury and it limited him to just nine games.

Over time, the Spurs’ medical staff cleared him to play. Leonard sought a second opinion from an outside source and it was recommended that he continued rehabbing. The organization’s position caused teammates to question if Leonard had ulterior motives. That — along with constant leaks to the media detailing how frustrated the Spurs were with the ordeal — was the beginning of the end of a relationship that had otherwise been relatively healthy for six years.

Robertson revealed why it was time for Leonard to go elsewhere.

“I think it just became a lack of trust,” Robertson told Yahoo Sports. “They didn’t believe Kawhi couldn’t play and that caused a lack of trust in us and then us not believing in them. Any time a player says he’s not capable of playing, you should believe him. Why would Kawhi just stop playing all of a sudden? He’s a competitor. Sometimes you get these team doctors telling you what you can and cannot do, and Kawhi was just in too much pain to get out there. This was a serious issue. They didn’t believe him, and after that, the relationship couldn’t recover and we decided we had to move on.”


As far as the concerns that he didn't want to go to Toronto and may be a short term rental, it seems they were well-founded.

As reported at the time, Leonard originally wasn’t keen on relocating to Toronto, but Robertson explained Leonard’s thought process at the time.

“When you are initially traded somewhere you didn’t asked to be, you don’t want to accept it,” Robertson told Yahoo Sports. “But once you get through that period, the focus then turns to giving your all and performing at a high level. It never had anything to do with the city of Toronto. It wasn’t. Toronto is a beautiful city. Kawhi has often spoke highly of Toronto. It’s a beautiful place. That was just an initial reaction, which is normal. But we’re enjoying this run and looking forward to the Finals.”
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Re: Kawhi Leonard Traded to Raptors

Postby air gordon on Wed May 29, 2019 12:41 am

nice for a change to see the focus shift from KD's pending free agency to Leonard's.

guess the talking heads need something to talk about while there's this lull before the nba finals
Andrew wrote:I mean, if we want to look back and smugly chuckle at predictions and conjecture that didn't pan out, we also need to point out certain predictions about players like Cameron Payne. I don't think any of us are perfect from the field at this point, and hindsight is 20/20, as the saying goes!

But yes, the deal has worked out splendidly for the Raptors.

id be inclined to agree. Ujiri is coming out of this as a genius. gave up deroza & tall caucasian. fired casey and here they are at the finals.

DeRozan has fit in with the Spurs...

i suppose. it's gotta sting for that franchise to see kawhi go absolutely nuts in the postseason. its like kinda like seeing your ex girlfriend make prom queen while you went went to the prom with the neighbor's daughter
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