2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

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Who ya got?

Warriors in 4
0
No votes
Warriors in 5
1
17%
Warriors in 6
2
33%
Warriors in 7
0
No votes
Rockets in 4
0
No votes
Rockets in 5
0
No votes
Rockets in 6
1
17%
Rockets in 7
1
17%
Warriors lose, sign Kawhi to MLE
1
17%
 
Total votes : 6

Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 03, 2019 1:38 pm

air gordon wrote:Yes and it's still a surprise it happened several times. Rockets have played some solid defense sans those hiccups


Yeah, it's not as much the defense anyway, holding GS to 104 is great (like you said, overall HOU played good D)

It's the way they play offense and how they got pounded on the boards that lost them the game
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sat May 04, 2019 12:13 am

the boards/GSW gets transition points on 3pt misses is a bit overstated. the fastbreak points were in houston's favor. while GSW did get more orebs, the 2nd chance points edge was not significant. also houston committed more turnovers but converted more points off the GSW TO's.

regardless, GSW should have ran away with game 2 while harden was out and clearly not 100% when he returned. kudos to houston for making a game of it.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Sat May 04, 2019 12:25 am

air gordon wrote:the boards/GSW gets transition points on 3pt misses is a bit overstated. the fastbreak points were in houston's favor. while GSW did get more orebs, the 2nd chance points edge was not significant. also houston committed more turnovers but converted more points off the GSW TO's.

regardless, GSW should have ran away with game 2 while harden was out and clearly not 100% when he returned. kudos to houston for making a game of it.


Turnovers in game 1

HOU: 14
GS: 20

GS had more turnovers. It was the terrible shot selection, selfish basketball, and getting outworked that lost HOU the game. 14 assists on 100 points, losing the rebound battle by 12, and missing 33 threes.

If you are talking about game 2, my apologies. In game 2 they had 7 less assists (17), which makes a big difference in a close game. So again, the selfish nature and ISO nature in which they play offense will be HOU's demise. Both teams were miserable from three.

And sorry, but allowing 18 offensive rebounds means you are getting outworked. They lost the OFF rebound battle by 8. They need to put bodies on people.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sat May 04, 2019 1:39 am

so what about GSW? Curry's awesomeness in the clutch are ISO plays. that step back on nene late in the 4th... ISO. or those midrange unstoppable ISO's by KD

just saying ;)
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Sat May 04, 2019 1:49 am

air gordon wrote:so what about GSW? Curry's awesomeness in the clutch are ISO plays. that step back on nene late in the 4th... ISO. or those midrange unstoppable ISO's by KD

just saying ;)


Actually, a lot of Curry's shots are with screens up high, and they are often less contested than Hardens. And, key is "Mid range", Durant mixes up his game, and is a threat all over the floor. Everybody knows that Harden is either pulling up for a three, or plowing through the lane. KD takes higher % shots in the clutch, and so does Curry.

And talking about ISO in the clutch? HOU is playing that way for most of 48 minutes, that's the problem, and it shows in the assist numbers in this series. Far more standing around watching, less people touching the ball to get into a rythem, and relatively no work in the mid range (Making Houston predictable).

This stuff can work in the season where the defense is blah and you are not playing the same team over and over consecutively. However, in the playoffs when you can adjust to teams much quicker, and if HOU doesn't make any changes and continues this play style, they could lose this one in 5 or 6. Comparing the way GS is playing to how HOU is playing is laughable, if you watched the games you would see that GS is moving A LOT more on offense. At times 4 or 5 swings on possessions, more screens on and off the ball, more diversity in the offense (Attacking and being a threat in the mid, 3 and paint). And again, HOU is also being outworked.

The assists in this series are 48 to 31, that is a monster difference considering the point differential is only 10 points between the two teams. If Houston was sharing more on offense, playing overall smarter on that end, they could have taken one or both of these games. Yet, they continue to be ISO happy, and have a stagnant offense that doesn't produce a good brand of team basketball. GS is playing smarter, bottom line.

Also, Curry shot .439% from three this season, Harden shot .368%. That is also a big difference. Curry is a better three point shooter by a sizeable margin, always has been. These playoffs, Curry is shooting .423% from three, Harden .337% (Below league average). GS is perfectly fine with Harden chucking step back threes in the clutch. Curry also has a history of killing bigs from three when bigs are switched out onto him, a much richer history than Harden. Whether it be Steven Adams, Tristan Thompson, etc. Curry in an ISO shooting a three on Nene is a far higher % shot than Harden isoing and shooting a three on anybody.

And by the way, Harden is a CAREER .327% from three in the playoffs. And look at his last 4 playoffs % from downtown:

15-16 - .310%
16-17 - .278%
17-18 - .299%
18-19 - .337%

Here are Currys (Career.409% from three in the playoffs):

15-16 - .404%
16-17 - .419%
17-18 - .395%
18-19 - .423%

And while Harden is incredibly ISO heavy, he is still averaging 5.4 turnovers PER GAME. Incredibly poor shot selection, selfish basketball, below average 3P% (and FG in general, career 41% from the field in the playoffs), and terrible at taking care of the ball.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sat May 04, 2019 3:49 am

you say tomato i say tomaato. just less long winded for me.

really, it's iso scoring done on contested shots. both teams are doing it. so what about those curry iso's on thompson (when he could still defend) and love when he didn't score? were those considered good possessions? i guess if houston had the same players as GSW they could run a similar offense. houston remains "predictable" but still shot more efficiently than GSW last game and thats with harden missing time and returning not 100%. these guys are supremely talented scorers. thanks for sharing their stats. harden's run while cp3 was out was historic.

i suppose im not watching the game enough but i see houston run pick and roll with harden. its pretty crazy how awesome the hampton 5 has taken Capella out of the series.... sans Curry, that lineup can switch on to harden.

play "smarter"? what does that mean? are you implying you can do better than d'antoni and or the players against that hampton 5 lineup??

it would be cool to see houston just iso heavy on Curry, get him in foul trouble, and pray GSW can't recover to the 3pt after the help. you take out curry, what spacing does GSW have aside from klay and KD??

anywho's this houston brand of bball should have taken the series last year if not for a cp3 injury and just a few more 3pt shots made. maybe that would have set your hair on fire. who knows

i have no horse in this race. just hoping for some close games (Y)
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Sat May 04, 2019 4:07 am

air gordon wrote:you say tomato i say tomaato. just less long winded for me.

really, it's iso scoring done on contested shots. both teams are doing it. so what about those curry iso's on thompson (when he could still defend) and love when he didn't score? were those considered good possessions? i guess if houston had the same players as GSW they could run a similar offense. houston remains "predictable" but still shot more efficiently than GSW last game and thats with harden missing time and returning not 100%. these guys are supremely talented scorers. thanks for sharing their stats. harden's run while cp3 was out was historic.

i suppose im not watching the game enough but i see houston run pick and roll with harden. its pretty crazy how awesome the hampton 5 has taken Capella out of the series.... sans Curry, that lineup can switch on to harden.

play "smarter"? what does that mean? are you implying you can do better than d'antoni and or the players against that hampton 5 lineup??

it would be cool to see houston just iso heavy on Curry, get him in foul trouble, and pray GSW can't recover to the 3pt after the help. you take out curry, what spacing does GSW have aside from klay and KD??

anywho's this houston brand of bball should have taken the series last year if not for a cp3 injury and just a few more 3pt shots made. maybe that would have set your hair on fire. who knows

i have no horse in this race. just hoping for some close games (Y)


Yes, Curry ISO's on Thompson, Love, Nene, etc are all much better quality than Harden in an ISO.

The D'antoni comment is hilarious. That means any critique I have seen you make, I could state "So air Gordon, you think you can coach better?" "you think you can make better decisions than coach x?". That comment holds no place here. When I see a team destroy themselves in the postseason by horrendous shot selection, and I see them continue it in the following postseason with a similar brand of basketball, I can call it out in a conversation about the series. And yes, I WOULD change it up if I was coaching.

Asking what "Play smarter" means... you know better. The way they played in game 7 last year was clearly not smart, and the way they conducted themselves through game 1 and game 2 was also not smart.

And they do run the P&R with Capela, but not nearly enough. And, they are still doing far more ISO basketball than they should be. Harden going 4-16 from 3 in game 1 after being barely a 30% three point shooter the last 4 postseasons is NOT SMART BASKETBALL. So "play smarter" is the opposite of that. And you have been around long enough, don't ask silly questions like that when you know that's not smart basketball.

Comparing Curry in an ISO on a big, and comparing them from three at all, is not good in any sense. Curry is a far, far better three point shooter, and he absolutely toasts bigs when they switch out onto him. Harden OPEN isn't as good as Curry COVERED from three. Whether it be ISO or not.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sat May 04, 2019 5:06 am

Well there you go. Houston must play better to win. High fives all around
(Y)

Sometimes it double standard here. GSW can take early contested shots but are up on a pedestal of great free flowing offense on this board. Meanwhile Houston was so close to defeating them with their own brand of play last year but get labeled selfish/predictable play
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Sat May 04, 2019 5:28 am

air gordon wrote:Well there you go. Houston must play better to win. High fives all around
(Y)

Sometimes it double standard here. GSW can take early contested shots but are up on a pedestal of great free flowing offense on this board. Meanwhile Houston was so close to defeating them with their own brand of play last year but get labeled selfish/predictable play


Just because a team takes contested shots, it's not the same, and the players taking the contested shots are not the same, and the type of shots are often different (how they are derived).

Most of GS contested shots are off of movement, and they are BETTER at contested shots. You stated that GS has better scorers/shooters, exactly why Houston needs to be working on better looks and moving more on offense. Harden taking 16 threes in game 1, and missing 12, when he's barely a 30% 3pt shooter for the last three years in postseason, is entirely different than Curry taking the same 16 shots as a better shooter, Curry would still have the advantage. However, the shot selection from the Warriors IS better, anybody who is watching the games knows this. They diversify the offense much more than HOU.

And part of this thread is disecting the series, so the whole "Houston needs to play better to win" simple as that, is not how this conversation was approached or started. But you know better than to compare Curry on an ISO on Nene to Harden chucking up step back and contested threes all game, you KNOW that's a terrible comparison, from the eye test and the statistics.

And you also know the D'antoni comment was ridiculous, considering I have seen you constantly bash how the Bulls coaching staff and team management run the team (rightfully so). So Air Gordon, do you think you can do better?

If I said "Air Gordon, player X who shoots 33% from three in this postseason, and shot under 30% the last two postseasons, is going to go out and attempt 15+ threes in game 1, with the majority of them being contested, you think that's a good idea?". You may say "No, he's not a good enough shooter, and why attemped 15+ threes with most contested, that's NOT SMART". Hence, you know exactly what "play smarter" means, doing the opposite of what he did in game 1 is playing smarter. He could have gotten better looks, so many of those attempts were completely contested in single coverage.

Houston is shooting themselves in the foot because they refuse to play smarter ball on the offensive end. If 8 of those Hardens 12 missed threes in game 1 had been shots closer to the hoop, or less contested, or passed to a teammate for a better shot, they could have taken the game. It's not a question whether that shot selection or strategy is poor, having your below average 3pt shooter shooting 16 threes in a game (most contested), is CLEARLY not smart, or giving your team the best chance to win.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sat May 04, 2019 6:18 am

whats this discussion about again?

of course i could do a better a job or at least hire someone to do a better job than the current bulls regime. besides their record and trades, they are consistently ranked on the bottom on the GM and coach surveys. you're stepping out of your expertise zone if you want to talk about the bulls. d'antoni has achieved more than whatever clown reinsdorf puts in charge and good ol' pringles will be in the hall of fame

while this praising of the GSW offense continues, remember kerr has criticized his team for not sharing the ball/going in iso mode. even the TV caught the audio of kerr yelling at KD to pass the damn ball instead of ISO'ing during timeouts in last year conf finals. GSW has their own flaws but have the ultimate trump cards of KD being able score ISO and curry hitting ridiculous step back shots from 30ft,

i supposed we can resume regurgitating all the misses or not smart play houston made. it really sounds like houston should be getting destroyed based on your points. somehow they have played 2 close games

to be fair KD has 9 TO's and Curry has 6 TO's in the first 2 games? not smart either

k thats a wrap for me. bring on game 3!
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Sat May 04, 2019 6:34 am

air gordon wrote:while this praising of the GSW offense continues, remember kerr has criticized his team for not sharing the ball/going in iso mode. even the TV caught the audio of kerr yelling at KD to pass the damn ball instead of ISO'ing during timeouts in last year conf finals. GSW has their own flaws but have the ultimate trump cards of KD being able score ISO and curry hitting ridiculous step back shots from 30ft


Stating that it's tomatos vs tomatos comparison like you did earlier isn't even close to accurate. GS has 3 titles in the last 4 years for a reason, and HOU lost game 7 of last year because they didn't play smart basketball in any sense of the word (Not because they didn't have Paul, they KEPT CHUCKING threes at a historic rate and bricked the majority). Curry and Durant, while not perfect, have shown to be more efficient doing what they do than Harden, especially in the postseason. And again, GS has better shooters/scorers and get the job done in many different ways, while Houston continues to basically play ISO ball and two dimensional offense.

i supposed we can resume regurgitating all the misses or not smart play houston made. it really sounds like houston should be getting destroyed based on your points. somehow they have played 2 close games


Like I said, if they had better shot selection and shared the ball they may have taken games 1 AND 2, as they lost by 4 and lost by 6. The defense they played was there, but the offense was not, hence the critiques of the offense. I've said numerous times things like "they shot themselves in the foot", because that's exactly what happened (Especially in game 1), they blew a great chance to grab a W.

to be fair KD has 9 TO's and Curry has 6 TO's in the first 2 games? not smart either


Curry at 3 turnovers a game and Durant at 4.5 is still less than Harden at 5.4. And, those contested bricked threes where GS gets the rebound ARE TURNOVERS. GS gets the ball back without Houston scoring. Harden could have less TOPG than both of them, and still be giving them plenty more free possessions by bailing out GS defense by taking single coveraged contested threes and just giving them the ball back. Far more wasted possessions based on that than turnovers.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sat May 04, 2019 6:39 am

ok thanks (Y)
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat May 04, 2019 11:34 pm

a great video :

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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sun May 05, 2019 2:20 am

good vid (Y)
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby NovU on Sun May 05, 2019 12:59 pm

Bad vid, cuz it's too obviously obvious and way too true.

Rockets run 90-00 era basketball with just vastly more 3s. Give your superstar a ball and get the fuck out of his way. Nothing wrong with it, because it works. They are still considered one and only true chance this year to dethrone one of the most talented teams in the history, if not the most. Btw, no sane person should believe they'd be better off moving the ball away from Harden or CP3 to try playing different brand of basketball.

Now the Warriors, they're different because of Curry. In his early days, he was a pure point guard. But the team found out Curry could play like a Reggie Miller and didn't have to spend all his energy trying to protect the ball and create plays. Being a pure ball handler became a part-time job and he embraced his new role. Curry's uniqueness worked wonders for the Warriors.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Andrew on Sun May 05, 2019 2:24 pm

Curry blowing that wide open dunk in overtime is going to go down as one of the all-time biggest flubs in Playoff history. It may not end up meaning anything in the long run as far as the ultimate result of the series - the Warriors are still up 2-1 and feasibly could win the next two for the Gentleman's Sweep - but man, that was embarrassing. Should've gone for the layup, though he missed a couple of those point blank as well.

Interesting that they basically called the game at that point; even JVG and Jackson were remarking on it and drawing comparisons to Game 7 between the Nuggets and Spurs. The latter was more confusing because it was a Game 7 with no tomorrow, while the Warriors at least have a couple of wins in their pocket.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Sun May 05, 2019 11:55 pm

Biggest all time flub huh? Guess the Curry residence won't be receiving a xmas card from Andrew lol

Why so anti curry? A lot of snarky remarks towards him

Gordon and Tucker were awesome but it was harden closing it out for the rockets. Good game (Y)
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Andrew on Mon May 06, 2019 1:46 am

Well, there was the dunk MJ missed against the Knicks back in...1992, I want to say? That was arguably more embarrassing given MJ's reputation as a high flyer. Curry's was probably still more inopportune, though. Both surprising flubs in their own right.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby air gordon on Mon May 06, 2019 3:07 am

guess nba players are held in such high regard huh

hot take. curry was turrible last game
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Andrew on Mon May 06, 2019 3:47 am

Fair. (Y)
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby debiler on Mon May 06, 2019 10:06 pm

Dear god, I can't describe how I loathe Houston's brand of basketball. I don't follow the NBA much during the regular season, because let's face it - I'm not gonna get up at 2:00a.m. for games that are very likely to be not exciting at all. But come playoff time, I watch from time to time. But man oh man - what has my game come to? I know - it's all good as long as you win games. But on a very serious note (and I'm really not kidding) - do the Rockets even need a coach? It's the same gameplan and tactics over and over and over again. Rinse and repeat, all night long. I hate this style of play so much, because it dumbs the game down to its very basics. Anybody who sees the Rockets play and has no clue about basketball is gonna think

a. I thought this was a team game...
b. Why do they keep shooting and missing?
c. Where's the fun in watching that?

...And what I hate even more is that they made me actually root for the Warriors. Because watching the Rockets is getting worse than watching the all-star game. I can't comprehend that this might actually be the best possible gameplan. Iso, shoot or drive, try to rebound, defend, repeat. No plays being run, no movement on offense. And the refs making :turrible: calls on top of that. It's horrible to watch.

I appreciate the idividual talent, but this style of basketball goes completely against everything I've been taught since I started playing almost 30 years ago.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Kevin on Tue May 07, 2019 1:58 pm

But on a very serious note (and I'm really not kidding) - do the Rockets even need a coach?

troll or...

b. Why do they keep shooting and missing?

I-

Because watching the Rockets is getting worse than watching the all-star game.

Thought you hated iso plays? The ASG relied on threes to procure hype, that's Warriors music right there.

Iso, shoot or drive, try to rebound, defend, repeat. No plays being run, no movement on offense. And the refs making :turrible: calls on top of that. It's horrible to watch.

wasn't the gameplan decades ago, iso plays for the most part? That's what the rockets are doing with harden with just more emphasis on three-pointers and not mid-range shots. (and kick outs to players who can also shoot threes)

If you want to hate on any of these two teams here, hate on the Warriors. They changed the NBA landscape and made it to this. Small ball, erasure of pure post centers, the emergence (or normalization) of stretch 4s and 5s, and the importance of the three-ball because after a hundred years analytics finally figured out that 3>2
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby NovU on Tue May 07, 2019 3:10 pm

LoL, Rockets took 50 threes.

debiler wrote:a. I thought this was a team game...
b. Why do they keep shooting and missing?
c. Where's the fun in watching that?

90-00 basketball with Iverson, McGrady, Kobe, Jordan, and Arenas! You must hate basketball.
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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Dee4Three on Tue May 07, 2019 3:26 pm

debiler wrote:Dear god, I can't describe how I loathe Houston's brand of basketball. I don't follow the NBA much during the regular season, because let's face it - I'm not gonna get up at 2:00a.m. for games that are very likely to be not exciting at all. But come playoff time, I watch from time to time. But man oh man - what has my game come to? I know - it's all good as long as you win games. But on a very serious note (and I'm really not kidding) - do the Rockets even need a coach? It's the same gameplan and tactics over and over and over again. Rinse and repeat, all night long. I hate this style of play so much, because it dumbs the game down to its very basics. Anybody who sees the Rockets play and has no clue about basketball is gonna think

a. I thought this was a team game...
b. Why do they keep shooting and missing?
c. Where's the fun in watching that?

...And what I hate even more is that they made me actually root for the Warriors. Because watching the Rockets is getting worse than watching the all-star game. I can't comprehend that this might actually be the best possible gameplan. Iso, shoot or drive, try to rebound, defend, repeat. No plays being run, no movement on offense. And the refs making :turrible: calls on top of that. It's horrible to watch.

I appreciate the idividual talent, but this style of basketball goes completely against everything I've been taught since I started playing almost 30 years ago.


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Re: 2019 Playoffs: (1) Golden State vs. (4) Houston

Postby Andrew on Tue May 07, 2019 6:59 pm

First time the Warriors have lost a game when both Curry and Durant have scored 30+. Close at the end, but hats off to the Rockets for doing the unprecedented.

I picked them to win in six, but I'm definitely not sure about them winning the next two. Now that it's a best of three with two Warriors home games, I like the Warriors' chances a lot better in that scenario. Goes to show how crucial that Game 1 was, I suppose. The split would've been huge.
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