2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Like real basketball, as well as basketball video games? Talk about the NBA, NCAA, and other professional and amateur basketball leagues here.

What's gonna happen?

Celtics in 4
0
No votes
Celtics in 5
0
No votes
Celtics in 6
1
7%
Celtics in 7
3
20%
Cavaliers in 4
3
20%
Cavaliers in 5
1
7%
Cavaliers in 6
4
27%
Cavaliers in 7
1
7%
To fill the week-long gap between the conference finals and NBA Finals, Boston and Houston play a series for third place
0
No votes
Isaiah Thomas on LeBron's title chances: "I don't know who the fuck that is."
2
13%
 
Total votes : 15

Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby NovU on Wed May 23, 2018 4:40 am

SoF'nAwesome wrote:
NovU wrote:Oh man, I dont believe neither these Celtics nor Cavs have any chance against superior western conference finalists now. If you cant defend one man team, how are you gonna defend multifaceted Warriors team.

celtics did beat cavs when it was only LeBron who was showing up. they started to lose when korver, tt and swish contributed as well. so i don't think it's fair to call them a one man team

Korver is still a nice player but can you imagine this guy being the 2nd best player on any other championship caliber team at age of 37? Think about Houston without CP3 and Capela but Korver, or Warriors without Klay, Draymond, and Curry(or KD), but Korver. They would suck, a lot.

Korver's also from LeBron's 2003 draft class. Seems these two are the only remaining nice players out of very special draftees. It's also crazy LeBoston is still bombing the league like he's still in mid 20s after all those years. I mean his draft mates are nearly all gone, and he's still pouring 40+ in the very competitive games with not much help from teammates. Insane.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Wed May 23, 2018 4:43 am

NovU wrote:
SoF'nAwesome wrote:
NovU wrote:Oh man, I dont believe neither these Celtics nor Cavs have any chance against superior western conference finalists now. If you cant defend one man team, how are you gonna defend multifaceted Warriors team.

celtics did beat cavs when it was only LeBron who was showing up. they started to lose when korver, tt and swish contributed as well. so i don't think it's fair to call them a one man team

Korver is still a nice player but can you imagine this guy being the 2nd best player on any other championship caliber team at age of 37?

Korver's also from LeBron's 2003 draft class. Seems these two are the only remaining nice players out of very special draftees. It's also crazy LeBoston is still bombing the league like he's still in mid 20s after all those years. I mean his draft mates are nearly all gone, and he's still pouring 40+ in the very competitive games with not much help from teammates. Insane.


Kevin Love is the Cavaliers second best player, that's not debatable.

Love is still averaging 15 and 10 in this postseason, and averaged 18 and 9 during the season. Korver is averaging 11 and 3 in this postseason, they are playing roughly the same minutes a game (Kevin Love 2 more). Love is also averaging almost double the assists per game (0.9 for Korver, 1.7 for Love), Korver is literally just a shooter. Outside of Stats, Love gives them more on the floor outside of shooting. While Love is a capable shooter, he gives them more on the rebounding front and in the post.

Even though Love hasn't had a good shooting playoffs, he is a threat/factor in more areas than Korver. A lot more to the game than just shooting.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby hova- on Wed May 23, 2018 7:00 am

Actually both of them played very solid on defense as well in the last two games, standing their ground and keeping their man in front of them for most of the time, something Love did not do in the rest of the playoffs. Korvers blocks in game 4 were a bit overrated as they also had to do with Jaylen Brown looking a bit exhausted out there, but at least he played it smart.

About the whole officiating thing. I just don't like you bringing it up now that the Celtics seem to fade (although they can still bounce back big time at home). I remember an offensive foul call against Tristan Thompson, who clearly had position against Terry Rozier.

About LeBron. This forearm could be easily called an offensive foul, but rarely do you see these calls unless they are totally obvious (like real pushing). If the refs had been calling more ticky tack, LeBron would have stepped to the line five more times as he got hacked on most of his drives to the rim.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Wed May 23, 2018 7:18 am

hova- wrote:Actually both of them played very solid on defense as well in the last two games, standing their ground and keeping their man in front of them for most of the time, something Love did not do in the rest of the playoffs. Korvers blocks in game 4 were a bit overrated as they also had to do with Jaylen Brown looking a bit exhausted out there, but at least he played it smart.

About the whole officiating thing. I just don't like you bringing it up now that the Celtics seem to fade (although they can still bounce back big time at home). I remember an offensive foul call against Tristan Thompson, who clearly had position against Terry Rozier.

About LeBron. This forearm could be easily called an offensive foul, but rarely do you see these calls unless they are totally obvious (like real pushing). If the refs had been calling more ticky tack, LeBron would have stepped to the line five more times as he got hacked on literally all of his drives to the rim.


I brought it up in the Pacers series as well, and I brought it up in the Thudner/Rockets series last year.

I've also talked about that push off/stiff arm thing LeBron gets away with numerous times, on here and elsewhere. Those are as obvious as it gets, it's literally a straight arm fully extended while the defender is backing up with his arms at his sides. It's as black and white as it gets, and you know as well as I do that those obvious ones should be called offensive fouls. Against the Celtics aside, pretending that's not LeBron as well, if that play happens over and over again where the defense is put at a disadvantage with the offensive player getting away with it (In this case, over 10 times a game) that can easily swing a score and momentum. The defender literally can't do ANYTHING, because they are not allowed to hand check, or even put a body into the offensive player in most cases. Whether some of them are real pushing or not, it's a clear advantage for the offensive player, and it's also technicaly against the rules in the rulebook.

Again, this isn't Celtics related (Me griping on this). I was LIVID when Harden did this to the Thunder in the first round of last year, I hated it with a passion. But not one person on this forum when seeing his arm fully extended like that, while the defender is backpedaling, and him making contact with the defender, would say that it's not an offensive foul (Unless you are absolutely lying to yourself and the others reading).
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby hova- on Wed May 23, 2018 7:26 am

It's not what they call, you see it on many occasions. It's a league of the players and especially the stars. I see your point and I agree to a certain point (although I backchecked his highlights from the game and only saw it twice, the others, he did not shove or anything at all).

The officiating in general though is not very lopsided and the referees are not the reason for success or no success in this series.

Marcus Smart is driving me crazy. Dude is playing with the biggest heart out there, getting so many clever steals, diving for lose balls. But his shot is really broken and his shot IQ is even worse. His pick & roll skills are countered by his sloppy play with the ball. And also his flopping is really really annoying to watch. LeBron vs Smart: you never know who is going to stumble, fall, hold his face etc. first. Glad the refs did not give him these calls. Reminded me of my man JJ Barea they way he was flopping the "elbow to the face".
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Wed May 23, 2018 7:40 am

hova- wrote:It's not what they call, you see it on many occasions. It's a league of the players and especially the stars. I see your point and I agree to a certain point (although I backchecked his highlights from the game and only saw it twice, the others, he did not shove or anything at all).

The officiating in general though is not very lopsided and the referees are not the reason for success or no success in this series.

Marcus Smart is driving me crazy. Dude is playing with the biggest heart out there, getting so many clever steals, diving for lose balls. But his shot is really broken and his shot IQ is even worse. His pick & roll skills are countered by his sloppy play with the ball. And also his flopping is really really annoying to watch. LeBron vs Smart: you never know who is going to stumble, fall, hold his face etc. first. Glad the refs did not give him these calls. Reminded me of my man JJ Barea they way he was flopping the "elbow to the face".


Marcus Smart can either make you or break you, the last two games he has broke the C's at times. His shot selection is horrible, and his flopping instead of playing hard defense is really frustrating to watch.

I wish the Celtics had tried to hit Tatum more off screens, or give Tatum screens in general. So much standing around, I think he needs to be even more of the offensive focus.

JJ Barea is one of my favorite players in the NBA. What a tough SOB, getting up and playing after that vicious hit from Bynum cemented it for me. He was so good, yet so annoying in that playoff run that opposing players hated him.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby [Q] on Wed May 23, 2018 9:35 am

Just like in the Pacers series, the Cavs have seized the momentum. Boston is not out of it like Indiana was but it will be an uphill battle for them
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby NovU on Wed May 23, 2018 12:27 pm

This LBJ fuss will never go away, hova. It's a moot point discussion all the time. Officiating in this year's playoffs have been surprisingly fair, and it doesn't matter to some people. LBJ still traveled.



Quite ecstatic though. LBJ's playoffs performance thus far has been one of the best in his career. Foolish me, thought his age has caught up to him and would take decline this year. In the meantime, most of his draft classmates have retired while remaining ones have gone to being shit players outside of Korver.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Wed May 23, 2018 12:36 pm

NovU wrote:This LBJ fuss will never go away, hova. It's a moot point discussion all the time. Officiating in this year's playoffs have been surprisingly fair, and it doesn't matter to some people. LBJ still traveled.



Quite ecstatic though. LBJ's playoffs performance thus far has been one of the best in his career. Foolish me, thought his age has caught up to him and would take decline this year. In the meantime, most of his draft classmates have retired while remaining ones have gone to being shit players outside of Korver.



It's not just LBJ fuss, it's actual points being made with actual backing. It's relevant to bring up stiff arming on drives and getting away with it. LeBron James is not immune just because you like him, or others like him, or people think he is great. He is subject to criticism just like other players, just like when people complain about Harden. With many games just decided by a few points, him getting away with stiff arms so many times can absolutely change the outcome of games. He's not immune to the rules, or people thinking that he should have to abide by them like other players. You even know looking at those stills that those are offensive fouls, but it makes you uncomfortable to admit that about James, so you make comments like I've alluded to prior "People will always try and find a way to hate this man!", which is super predictable, and I knew you were going to react like that. And, just because it's an officiating issue, doesn't mean that it should just be "Thats how they call games" or it's "A superstars league", it's an actual issue and it's an eyesore to watch, and as stated prior it can alter outcomes. But, I doubt you thought about it that deeply.

The fact that they allow the stiff arming on his drives SHOULD be addressed, because it puts all defenses at a clear disadvantage. If it was another player doing it in the spotlight, I would be calling it out as well. Harden has been called out a ton for the shit he pulls in games, even Donovan Mitchell did (Afterwards apologizing). NovU, with a comment like that you prove how narrow minded you are. I can praise him for a performance (Game 7 he made some great plays), while also acknowledging negatives as well (The league allowing him to get away with that, and it happening so often). In the NBA rule book that is clearly an offensive foul. It's okay, LeBron makes mistakes, and gets away with stuff, it's not the end of the world and you will be okay. In the words for LeBron himself, I promise. :roll:
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby [Q] on Wed May 23, 2018 12:55 pm

Anybody who drives to the rim pushes off in some form or another. It just might be more obvious for him since he's stronger or guys are flopping or whatever the case may be. It's a matter of whether the refs wanna call it on every play and let ticky tack calls slow the game down. But there's other aspects of the game like that regarding carries, traveling, push offs on step back jumpers, fouls when fighting for rebounds, hand checking, and more

Also, the fact that he's a unique freak of nature makes him hard to officiate like back when Shaq in his prime or even Randle late in the season would get hacked inside but no fouls were called because they're so strong it looked like it didn't even faze them
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby NovU on Wed May 23, 2018 12:57 pm

Man, seriously? That is some grade A bullshit attack. It doesn't make me uncomfortable but your constant bitching does.


Using arm is entirely legal, shoving is not. If defenders cannot turn them into fouls, it's entirely their bad. Ofc, we get to hear whining on officiating even before nothing started and now this. Celshits fans should do better. cmon sauru.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Wed May 23, 2018 1:00 pm

[Q] wrote:Anybody who drives to the rim pushes off in some form or another. It just might be more obvious for him since he's stronger or guys are flopping or whatever the case may be. It's a matter of whether the refs wanna call it on every play and let ticky tack calls slow the game down. But there's other aspects of the game like that regarding carries, traveling, hand checking, and more


Q, he gets away with it and does it more than any player I have ever seen. He also extends his full arm, not bends it and pushes off, completely extends it. Those are just 5 snapshots from a small highlight reel, do you know how many times this happened in the entire game?


Again, just because it's an officiating issue, or a league wide issue, doesn't make it any less frustrating or troubling. And when he gets away with it as many times as he does. En route to 40 points, it can be discouraging no matter which team you are rooting for. That's not good basketball, you know as well as I do that those are offensive fouls away that it should be cracked down on.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Wed May 23, 2018 1:05 pm

NovU wrote:Man, seriously? That is some grade A bullshit attack. It doesn't make me uncomfortable but your constant bitching does.


Using arm is entirely legal, shoving is not. If defenders cannot turn them into fouls, it's entirely their bad. Ofc, we get to hear whining on officiating even before nothing started and now this. Celshits fans should do better. cmon sauru.


Haha, yes! It got you to respond directly to me. I feel so accomplished tonight.

He is pushing off on a lot of them, and if the defender tries to knock the arm away (like offensive players due to defenders) they call the defender for the foul.

You can't extend your off arm completety , making contact with the defender, and it be legal. Which is why hooking isn't legal on layups, or on spin moves. If you extend your arm on a layup, and not pushing the other player but making contact with the other player, it's an offensive foul.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby NovU on Wed May 23, 2018 1:18 pm

You're still on my foe list, but hova's reacting to your trolling had me curious. Again, my mistake for butting in, not good for mental health.

Everyone here are aware of basic rules, son. LBJ's usage of arm is legal, pushing and shoving happen all the time to certain degrees. If you think Jordan's infamous push off in final shot was nice and dandy, then there's no reason for this outcry.




It's quite amusing to see Celshits fans suddenly whining like lil bitches now that series is tied at 2 apiece.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Wed May 23, 2018 1:22 pm

NovU wrote:You're still on my foe list, but hova's reacting to your trolling had me curious. Again, my mistake for butting in, not good for mental health.

Everyone here are aware of basic rules, son. LBJ's usage of arm is legal, pushing and shoving happen all the time to certain degrees. If you think Jordan's infamous push off in final shot was nice and dandy, then there's no reason for this outcry.




It's quite amusing to see Celshits fans suddenly whining like lil bitches now that series is tied at 2 apiece.


I've talked about this before, it just so happens it's happening against the Celtics now, I mentioned the officiating vs the Pacers, but so soon you forget (or intentionally omit). I've also talked about James Harden and Chris Paul numerous times, and the shit they get away with, but you can't mention that because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Trolling would be not being serious, or doing it to get a reaction, I'm just being honest and I'm totally being serious. So that's the wrong word. And no, it's not legal to drive to the hoop and stiff arm defenders, NovU.

Proud to be on a list, even if it is a "foe list". However, because it's you, I'm pretty happy to be on that type of list. I'm sure some other guys who made a lot of sense are on it with me.

Per NBA video book:

"Offensive players may not extend an arm to ward off a legal defender. On this play, the driving offensive player uses his forearm to ward off his legal defender in an effort to create space between him and the defender to attempt a field goal. This is an offensive foul."

In the video, the player wards off using his off arm while attempting the shot. But it's clear in the rules where it states that an offensive player can't extend his off arm to ward off a legal defender. Which is happening in all the stills I posted, and happens all the time when James drives.

Harden does this as well.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby NovU on Wed May 23, 2018 1:47 pm

You sure can be proud of it, only one I've ever foe listed in my long tenure. Means something, lolz.

lol. It's gotta be frustrating for Celshits fans that their excellent defense is failing to turn LBJ's arm use into fouls. Again, it's perfectly legal to use your arm as long as contact doesn't happen or minimal within reasons. Geez, this is bball 101.

Your pics are no proof and stupid again to suit your needs and dirty lies to diminish LBJ. Why not post YT vid as you always do and tell us where fouls occurred and fouls were not called. As hova said, how about times when there was fouls on LBJ's drive. Have we forgot rules apply to both sides? Bottomline is you can't fault officiating for Celshits shortcomings and a lot of people are tired of your whining. Say your piece once and leave it at that, you wrote 1k essay on every replies. Cmon son.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Wed May 23, 2018 1:53 pm

NovU wrote:You sure can be proud of it, only one I've ever foe listed in my long tenure. Means something, lolz.

lol. It's gotta be frustrating for Celshits fans that their excellent defense is failing to turn LBJ's arm use into fouls. Again, it's perfectly legal to use your arm as long as contact doesn't happen or minimal within reasons. Geez, this is bball 101.

Your pics are no proof and stupid again to suit your needs and dirty lies to diminish LBJ. Why not post YT vid as you always do and tell us where fouls occurred and fouls were not called. As hova said, how about times when there was fouls on LBJ's drive. Have we forgot rules apply to both sides? Bottomline is you can't fault officiating for Celshits shortcomings and a lot of people are tired of your whining. Say your piece once and leave it at that, you wrote 1k essay on every replies. Cmon son.


Dirty lies to diminish LBJ? Hahahahahaha.

With that being said, nothing can top that. That defines you to a T NovU. LeBron shot 13 free throws in game 4, and was called for 0 offensive fouls. He also shot 15 free throws in games 5 and 7 against the Pacers (total of 30). You see your "favorites" side, I see both.

But man, that dirty lies comment is the best I've heard yet. Can't top it, won't try.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby shadowgrin on Wed May 23, 2018 5:51 pm

Loved the overanalyses from LeBron critics coming out like cockroaches after the Celtics went up by 2-0 and writing obituaries for a Cavs team with LeGOAT in it, any team with a dominant once in generation talent like LeBron will always have a chance of winning games.

The biggest surprise for me with the Cavs tying the series was them playing defense (worst defense in the regular season).
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Thu May 24, 2018 1:20 am

Keys to tonights game for the Celtics:

1. Don't get in a hole early like games 3 and 4
2. Stay out of foul trouble - Find some way to limit LeBron to under 10 Free throws (This will be tough)
3. Same as I said for Game 3 in regards to Thompson and Nance - In game 4, they combined for 20 and 15, somehow Celtics have to find a way to cut that in half.
4. Hope they call LeBron for a couple stiff arm fouls (Not likely)
5. Get Tatum more involved offensively - Set more screens for him off the ball so he can catch and shoot, or catch and drive (Easy first step for him) - Tatum and Brown are the best on the team going downhill.
6. Make your damn dunks
7. Get the ball to Horford more on the block - Thompson can't guard him, neither can Nance. This should be exploited
8. Get out on the damn shooters - Watching the Celtics gamble OFF of Korver makes me cringe, hes shooting 46% from downtown in the post season. Celtics should never leave him.
9. Make a decision on whether to fight over screens, or switch, and make that the norm - Celtics seemed confused last game in regards to if they would be fighting over screens, and going under. This resulted in wide open looks off screens for the like of Korver and Smith, or opportunities off of on ball picks.
10. Run - pretty simple......

Prediction - Celtics 102, Cavs 96.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby air gordon on Thu May 24, 2018 1:28 am

Shadow,
You could say the same thing about coach Lue

For all the credit Stevens gets, which is deserved, what about the inability to get his team to play well outside their own stadium
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Dee4Three on Thu May 24, 2018 1:33 am

air gordon wrote:Shadow,
You could say the same thing about coach Lue

For all the credit Stevens gets, which is deserved, what about the inability to get his team to play well outside their own stadium


The Celtics had a better road record than home record during the season:

Home: 27-14
Road: 28-13

Also, they won on the road against Philly, knocking them out 4-1 in a series where they were not favored.

Both teams won both home games in the playoffs, not a shocker at all and really speaks to nothing. The Celtics have been winning on the road all year.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby air gordon on Thu May 24, 2018 5:14 am

team 'x' is 1-6 on the road during the playoffs

may have spoken to soon on Tthompson
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Sauru on Thu May 24, 2018 10:29 am

NovU wrote:This is why I appreciate Sauru's presence in our forum. The man is not afraid to call it what it is even though I still think he is a dictionary definition of ass fuck.



totally feeling the love. :cool: :cool: :cool:
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Sauru on Thu May 24, 2018 10:33 am

i feel like the celtics blew their chance. they needed to take either game 3 or 4 to take this series. i can see them winning tonight but they will drop games 6 and 7. no way is lebron losing a game 7 in this series. either way both teams are playing for second place and i still love the future for the celtics.
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Re: 2018 PLAYOFFS: (2) Boston vs. (4) Cleveland

Postby Andrew on Thu May 24, 2018 12:12 pm

I'd have felt better about their chances if they could be coming into Game 5 up 3-1, but I won't count them out yet. I agree that home court advantage in a potential Game 7 may not be enough, if it comes to that.
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