Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:32 pm

Damn it, I was supposed to quote you Q and respond to it plus post my thoughts about the Rumble but I had an SQL error and everything I wrote disappeared.

So I'm not gonna write it down again, but I'll say I liked the Women's Rumble more.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:57 pm

I thought it was a pretty good show all around. Really glad they didn't have Reigns win the Men's Rumble - Nakamura was a great choice - and the match itself was pretty good. Balor was made to look good, and there was some good nostalgia with The Hurricane and Rey Mysterio. I thought the Women's Rumble was a great main event, though. There was room for more nostalgia there with a few extra spots to fill, and it was a great moment when Trish Stratus and Mickie James were standing alone facing off, and had some back and forth. Great move having Asuka win that as well, keeping her looking strong.

I'm sure a lot of people won't like the fact that Ronda Rousey is being brought in, but I thought it was done pretty well, and I'm all for her having a run in the company. Good call not to have her in the Rumble itself. As long as she's booked more interestingly than Brock Lesnar, there's potential for good matches and angles.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:14 pm

Yeah, I agree o that too. I actually counted Trish out of the Rumble and just expected that Bayley and Ronda would be 29 and 30. I appreciated the spots and the potential angles set up by the Women's Rumble, including of several hints of a Sasha heel turn. Shame that we didn't get a Trish and Lita staredown but it's not a deal breaker. The Women's Rumble was great.

I think what the producers are trying to do with the Men's Rumble is to have either Cena or Reigns or both in the final fours to give viewers the anxious thought of another Cena or Reigns victory. Nakamura was a great choice, I think his Rumble win would propel him to greater heights if the build-up is done right. And of course, Styles vs Nakamura is way heaps better than Mahal vs Nakamura. I hope they give us an NJPW-esque match like how they did with Styles vs Cena.

I think this was a pretty good show. I watched from the pre-show up to the end so that's 6.5 hours. :lol: I hated the Raw tag title match and the Universal Championship match.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:01 pm

it was actually quite shocking that the SD tag match actually didn't go to the 3rd fall as it always does in 2 out of 3 matches.
men's rumble was cool, cien's appearance was a surprise but cool to see him. Rey was the biggest surprise and he looked like he was in really good shape so it could lead to more appearances
i liked the pacing of the women's match as it allowed each woman to get her spots in. it was also great that the limited amount of women on the roster allowed for more surprises so i was probably more on the edge of my seat for the women's match every time the clock hit 0. it was a little annoying that they all would roll out of the ring for the spots, but it was still pretty cool. it was tough to see the former wrestlers in there struggle at times. Lita looked good for the most part, but obviously her athleticism isn't what it used to be. I was kinda hoping for an Awesome Kong/Kharma appearance when Nia had cleared the ring.
Overall, it was pretty entertaining despite already knowing who was probably going to win the matches and with so many people saving others in the rumble matches. didn't really make much sense.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:27 pm

The Universal title match definitely suffered from the predictability of Brock Lesnar's booking. It's obvious he's not dropping the title until Wrestlemania, it's obvious Kane was only in the match to make sure Braun didn't have to take the pinfall, and it was obvious as soon as Braun got knocked off the apron that Kane was going to eat an F5 and the match would be over. There were some brutal spots that were entertaining, and Braun actually looking like a monster made it a little more interesting than usual, but other than that, it's your typical Lesnar match and angle.

I liked the Raw tag team championship match for the story it told. I'm a fan of the direction they've gone with Jason Jordan, basically making him a heel who acts as though he's a face while still being very heelish in a whiny and cowardly kind of way. It's actually what they did with his "father" all those years ago when he debuted, so it works as a callback (albeit possibly an unintentional one) and is a better story than trying to build him up as a big face like it seemed they were originally trying to do. The match wasn't spectacular, but it made Rollins look courageous, The Bar look formidable, and Jordan self-centred and unreliable, while getting the belts back on the actual tag team. It did everything it needed to do. I'm guessing they're still going to go with some big reveal that Jordan isn't Angle's son at some point, leading to a match between them.

Trish at #30 was a good fakeout. A shame she couldn't lock up with Lita, but I think they needed to spread the nostalgia and surprises out a little bit, and having her go toe to toe with Mickie was a good consolation prize. It was pretty funny when the crowd was chanting for Undertaker while Michelle McCool was in the ring. Stephanie on commentary was kind of painful. That's not her forte, and it showed.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:33 pm

Stephanie on commentary was basically the equivalent of Triple H putting himself in a main event because they think they actually belong there
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:14 pm

Actually, I was expecting Stephanie to be involved in the Rumble as an entrant. It's great that it didn't happen.

[Q] wrote:it was actually quite shocking that the SD tag match actually didn't go to the 3rd fall as it always does in 2 out of 3 matches.


I took a piss break after the Gable moonsault, and I was surprised it was finished that way. Time constraints, perhaps?

Andrew wrote:The Universal title match definitely suffered from the predictability of Brock Lesnar's booking. It's obvious he's not dropping the title until Wrestlemania, it's obvious Kane was only in the match to make sure Braun didn't have to take the pinfall, and it was obvious as soon as Braun got knocked off the apron that Kane was going to eat an F5 and the match would be over. There were some brutal spots that were entertaining, and Braun actually looking like a monster made it a little more interesting than usual, but other than that, it's your typical Lesnar match and angle.


What's also cringe-worthy was when Michael Cole mentioned that Brock is currently the longest-reigning active champion.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:15 pm

I also wondered if she was going to be a surprise entrant and get up from the desk, a la Jerry Lawler in a couple of Rumbles back in the day. While commentary isn't her thing, better she stayed there and let the legends and current stars do their thing.

Brock's long reigns just feel cheap. Sure, he's been established as a beast and very difficult to defeat since he debuted in 2002, but as I've said before, I can't help thinking that in terms of kayfabe and overarching storyline, he's at a tremendous advantage when he's not defending the title every month, or competing regularly in non-title matches. It's easier to hold onto the title for a long time when there are months between title defenses, meaning there are fewer chances to lose it, and you're a lot fresher and less beat up than your competition. Yeah, it's professional wrestling and you're not supposed to think too deeply about the storylines, but I think the way they're booking him has had the opposite effect in terms of making the title special and his reign meaningful. It's done wonders for the IC belt, though.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby bigh0rt on Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:44 am

I really enjoyed the Men's Rumble match itself. I thought it was booked much better than it is in many years, with good action and storytelling, a solid final core of contenders, and finish. It didn't have any real lame stretches that turned me off. Same for the Women's Rumble, despite it being a bit sloppy at times (albeit, mostly with former wrestlers). Looks like well see Asuka vs Bliss and Rousey vs Flair at WrestleMania. I don't mind Ronda getting a WWE run, as long as she's booked well, and like Andrew said, not given some Brock treatment.

I didn't even watch the Universal Title Match, as I took the opportunity to do a few things around the house while winding down, and apparently I didn't miss much. I look forward to Brock leaving the company, and seeing Paul Heyman paired with someone else.

I think Nakamura vs Styles could tear the place down at WrestleMania, and although I'm sure it won't be, it should be the final match on the card. I'm sure we'll get some iteration of Braun/Reigns/Cena vs Brock, though, that I really couldn't care less about.

Is there anybody better than the Usos? These guys have reinvented themselves and somehow managed to be even better than they ever were. Last night's match was probably their worst in recent PPV memory, and it was still very good. These guys have great programs with whoever they work with, and I hope to see them work with the Undisputed Era, The Revival, and others in the future as well. They don't get the credit they deserve (which is strange, because just a few years ago it seemed like they were stale and overrated -- kudos to them).

Re: NXT Takeover, Almas vs Gargano is the best match I've seen in a very, very long time. I fell for so many false finishes, and throughout really had no idea who would win, and was buying into the various swings in the story telling (Zelina interfering, then being run out of ringside, etc.). Just an unbelievable match. *****. For me, it was head and shoulders above the others on the card, including Cole vs. Black. I'd love to get that match out of Nakamura and Styles at WrestleMania and hope they are given the time.

So, any predictions on WrestleMania matches outside of what we already know? What does the event hold in store for guys like Seth, Orton, Bray, Matt Hardy, etc.? Who do we think faces the Miz for the IC Title? How about each tag team title?
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:05 am

The only thing that felt a bit silly for me in the Men's Rumble was Kofi Kingston's annual crazy way of avoiding elimination. They're pushing it a bit, especially with him standing on the pancakes (at that point, you're being very pedantic about "both feet touching the floor" being the exact rule), but it's kind of his thing, and The New Day are a lighthearted act, so fair enough. Looks like Naomi is going to carry those spots over to the Women's Rumble, too.

With Nakamura vs Styles for the WWE Championship, I'm going to say they'll go full steam ahead with Reigns vs Lesnar for the Universal Championship, and finally pull the trigger on Reigns defeating Lesnar and getting a long title reign. That's going to waste Braun's momentum, unless they have him take the title from Reigns at some point. They might have him face Cena at Wrestlemania, where a win would keep him looking strong. I assume they'll do WOKEN Matt vs Wyatt. If there's a MITB ladder match, I could see a mix of Raw and Smackdown Superstars competing in that, which would probably include The Miz and Bobby Roode, meaning the IC and US belts won't be defended. Orton and Rollins might be in on that as well.

I expect Asuka will take on Alexa Bliss. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Sasha Banks turn heel, and face Bayley; it feels like they'v been building towards that for a while now. I've heard rumours of The Rock and Ronda Rousey vs HHH and Stephanie. Wouldn't surprise me. Rousey is definitely going to be doing something at Wrestlemania, especially as she's reportedly a full-time talent.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby deihatein on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:37 am

I only watched both the Men and Women Rumble plus the opening match and skip the others. It's pretty weird that the Men Rumble is placed in the middle show. The Rumble PPV is probably the only thing I want to watched without getting spoiled and it's kinda refreshing not knowing the results before and being impressed by some of the surprise entrants, particularly that Almas guy.

Some of the highlights for the rumble for me is probably Slater getting beat up from getting to the ring, Balor has a pretty good showing and Nakamura won.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:43 am

The Rumble winners pointing at the Wrestlemania sign with no fireworks definitely felt weird.

bigh0rt wrote:Re: NXT Takeover, Almas vs Gargano is the best match I've seen in a very, very long time. I fell for so many false finishes, and throughout really had no idea who would win, and was buying into the various swings in the story telling (Zelina interfering, then being run out of ringside, etc.). Just an unbelievable match. *****.


Definitely. The way the storyline went, Gargano pinning Black in the fatal four-way contendership match came out as a huge surprise and Gargano being booked as the ultimate underdog. That match replaced the Zayn vs Neville match at Takeover back in 2015 as my favorite NXT match ever.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:57 am

Yeah I imagine the tag match got cut short for time. Really odd finish to it, like there should have been more. Honestly, I'm kind of sick of the usos. I've been really hoping for gable and Benjamin to win the titles for months now. The usos just came off a long title run before they lost to the new day.

Speaking of the new day, the kofi spot was actually something I thought of a few years back, down to the holding his foot off the ground by Xavier. Of course, I didn't think of all the stuff afterwards like him stepping on a plate of pancakes lol
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:24 am

The pancake part was a bit silly - like I said, at that point you're basically putting both feet down on the ground - but being saved by Xavier and then being launched back over the top rope was awesome.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:58 am

Similar to the meme where you try to explain to a time traveler about nakamura fighting cena for the chance to face the champion jinder mahal, try explaining that there were two Royal rumble matches this year and that they were both won by Japanese wrestlers.

On another note, the size of the roster seems to have grown as there were quite a few midcarders and guys in championship matches that weren't in the rumble match.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:36 am

I think there's a good amount of talent on the roster, and there has been for some time. It's the booking that's left something to be desired, and the reason why we don't seem to have the plethora of stars and standout characters that we had in the Attitude Era.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby bigh0rt on Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:16 am

I agree that there's a good amount to blame on booking for us not having the mega-stars of yesteryear like Austin, Rock, Triple H, etc. But there also don't seem to be quite as much charisma in a lot of these guys. The personalities aren't as big and pronounced. Maybe that's a product of booking their TV time, not letting them do their own thing with their characters, the way the aforementioned were allowed to and flourished doing, etc. I just know that guys like Styles and Nakamura are hyper talented, but I have a difficult time believing either can be a shell of the draw of those Attitude Era stars. I do enjoy watching them perform, though. Even when Daniel Bryan was at the peak of his Yes movement, and had unbelievable heat, he wasn't in the same stratosphere, in my opinion, as those late 90's early 2000's guys. I missed most of Cena's run at the top, but I believe he was in that same rarefied air, and maybe CM Punk too? Or was he more of a Styles-type star? Maybe it's just different now that I'm older, because my students wear Roman Reigns t-shirts and absolutely love the guy. So maybe it's just me.

Also, just cause it's been awhile; I'm still dying for a legitimate Cena heel run. Aren't we all? It would just breathe tremendous life back into his character and legitimize keeping him at the top of the card, because he's still a real entertaining performer in the ring. I need a full blown Hogan heel turn.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:07 pm

Punk was definitely over big time, especially in 2011 after the worked shoot promo. He was given carte blanche to be his character and say what he wanted without everything being carefully and heavily scripted, which is the freedom guys had back in the Attitude Era. These days, promos are overproduced and sanitised, and too similar. I don't think workers are being given the chance to really try anything creative...with the exception of Matt Hardy, I guess. And he's obviously already pretty well-established and a prominent name.

Cena and/or Reigns should've turned heel a long time ago. I feel like it's not going to happen, at least for Cena. Reigns they might consider, and probably should.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby shadowgrin on Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:20 pm

I'd consider Daniel Bryan's peak worthy to be in the same category as Cena, Punk, or even belonging to those of the Attitude Era stars. Bryan gained that much heat just on his in-ring performance without being overly reliant on his personality or favorable booking/storyline, just imagine what he could have done if he was given the creative freedom like those in the Attitude Era. Closest comparison I could think of for Bryan if he was in the Attitude Era is Kurt Angle, both excellent performers in the ring.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:59 pm

I think part of it has to do with a lack of must see full time stars. But then again, this is a completely different era, a different time and it's not really fair to compare it.

Not sure if the main guys aren't entertaining or if the script is holding them back. Also Vince holding back guys like Finn that he doesn't believe in.

The most interesting/entertaining stuff this past year has been stuff that was unintentional like the jericho/owens friendship and catchphrases. Also Rusev Day. I think that their need to move the story but still put on a show for the live audience leads to a lot of weird booking and like a bunch of tag matches with dudes in feuds every week as filler
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:43 am

I was talking to a friend about Rusev today, and I suggested that I could see him having a Mark Henry-type run, where he languishes as a comedy midcarder for a bit, then gets a serious push as a heel again. As I've said before, he suffered from the age old technique of a monster push with an undefeated streak out of the gate, which resulted in them not knowing where to go with him after that ended. It's funny, because that's basically how they booked Taker upon his debut, but they made it work. It probably helps that it was a different time, and his undefeated run culminated in defeating Hulk Hogan for his first WWF/E Championship. Also, Taker's an all-time great talent and character, so that's a factor.

In any event, I can see Rusev getting a serious push again once the comedy act runs its course...assuming he doesn't fall victim to a budget cut. I think he's over enough and talented enough to ride it out until a more substantial angle comes his way, though.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby bigh0rt on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:31 am

I don't remember who it was a few years ago who was saying how wonderful The Miz was, when I was saying that I couldn't stand him, as I got back into wrestling, but I absolutely stand corrected. He's just fantastic. They've been wise to keep the Intercontinental strap on him for this long, and he shines no matter who he seems to be paired with. His opening match with Cena last night was excellent.

That being said, I wouldn't mind to see Finn work a program with Miz and ultimately become Intercontinental Champion... and Gallows and Anderson to stop jobbing all the time, and to capture the Tag Team Titles. Am I the only one who doesn't think The Revival are anything special? Granted, I didn't watch much of their NXT work, so maybe I missed out on some amazing potential, but they don't do it for me in the ring, or with their characters. Push Balor Club -- they're fantastic.

Did anyone else cringe when John Cena said in his promo that kicked off RAW that WrestleMania could bring superstars back from the dead? I've never been more done with Undertaker. I don't want to watch old men be shells of the greats that they once were. I never want to see Undertaker wrestle again, and that statement was true three years ago. If it's Cena v. Undertaker at WM, I can't envision a scenario where it's enjoyable, given Undertaker's last few performances.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:51 am

Cena/Taker has been heavily rumoured, so it seems likely to say the least. If Taker's healthier than he has been in years past then it may be OK, but yeah, it's highly unnecessarily. Is there any point in Cena going over him? There's certainly no point in Taker going over him. Last year seemed like a good send-off; not so much the match of course, but the post-match stuff. Maybe it's all a swerve, but the seeds have been sown. I'm surprised it's still an option, with Taker in his 50s and coming off another major surgery.

I feel like Miz received a world title push too soon, and he was definitely overshadowed by Rock and Cena back then. He's worked hard and has become one of the best heels in the company, and one of the most consistent workers. Miz has come a long way, and has helped make the midcard significant. It also helps when the Universal title is hardly on TV, but take nothing away from what Miz has done.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:09 am

I was the same on miz. I couldn't stand him but I respected his work ethic. But I've actually come around and he's actually not that bad anymore. The best were the segments making fun of Cena leading up to their WM match

I think HHH is really trying to push Finn and the club but it's almost forced, like to prove that his nxt signings have been worth it. I'm glad for the push but doesn't seem like they or Vince are 100% behind it. I agree I never liked the revival and don't really understand their draw. They seem like a generic tag team that would show up to job
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby shadowgrin on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:12 pm

[Q] wrote: The best were the segments making fun of Cena leading up to their WM match

This.

Makes me want to see The Miz do work with Broken/Woken Matt Hardy.
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