This is why I have little to no faith in the younger crowd....

Even Michael Jordan at age 38 when he joined the Wizards, didn't try and stack his team. He wanted to beat the best. And before he hurt his knee... he was still one of the best players in the league.

At first, the Wizards 2001/02 season started off very poorly, as they went 2-9. Eventually, however, the Wizards found their chemistry and turned it around. Even with this slow start, the Wizards made it to 26-21 by the All-star break, and 26-20 in the games that Jordan played before the injury happened. The Wizards also achieved the 26-21 record even with Rip Hamilton missing 5 weeks in that stretch due to a groin injury.


A healthy Jordan and Rip Hamilton
throughout the season realistically
could have competed for
the East's number 1 seed.

When Rip and Jordan both played, the Wizards were 15-1 in the last 16 games that both of them played before the injury happened. Considering that the Wizards were on a 45-win pace (46-47 wins if you consider the 26-20 record when Jordan played) at the All-star break with Rip missing time, they would easily crack 50 wins had both Jordan and Hamilton stayed healthy throughout the season, even with a slow 2-9 start.

In the 46 games that Jordan played in 01/02 before the injury, he averaged
25.1 points - rebounds 6.2 - assists 5.3 - steals 1.5 -blocks 0.5 on 42%


Jordan's numbers were also improving as the season went on.


In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged
27.5 - 6.4 - 5.2 - 1.3 - 0.5 on 44%

In his last 10 games up to the injury he averaged
29.7 - 6.6 - 6.1 - 1.2 - 0.3 on 47%

Jordan went through obstacles, even at 38. What happened after he didn't make the playoffs in 01-02 at age 38/39? He went into the next season to compete against the best, not stacking his squad... at age 39/40! He also played all 82 games.


In the mid 90's for championships, he had to get passed the Ewing led Knicks, the Shaq and Penny Magic, the Tim Hardaway, Mashburn and Mourning Heat, the Reggie Miller and Rik Smits Pacers, etc. Yes, the Pacers, you really think this Raptors team is better than the Pacers of the mid/late 90's? All of those teams could be #1 in the east in todays NBA. There was far more competition.

LeBron goes around obstacles to get accolades. The competitiveness alone of LeBron can make a man not support him.

I will give him credit for his 06-07 and 08-09 seasons, as he brought a team to the 06-07 finals that should not have gotten there, I felt that was impressive. in 08-09, they lost in the East Finals, that team did not have much either.

Durant will forever be looked at for the decision he made. He had just lost a 7 game series, with his team up 3-1, and he joins the team that beat him in the same conference, and that team was the best team in the West. That is going around obstacles, instead of through them. He didn't say to himself "We will get them next year, we had that series", he most likey thought "I want to get to the highest stage without the unknown, here I come Golden State". I will forever look at Durant differently.

By now you should have noticed I do not fly much by fictitious narratives. While there could be valid points, they're just hypothetical assumptions just like countless counterarguments out there.

Like how do you explain Jordan's team won more than 50+ games without him against such tough foes you are sucking onto. How do you explain Jordan's team made to the second round without him in era of such fucking toughness. Do you believe LBJ's squad(or former) is capable of doing the same thing in the ruins of east?

So LBJ faced Kobe, Durant, CP3, Shaq, Duncan, Wade, Dirk, KG, Tmac, Pierce, etc etc, in his era, they're shittier than Ewing and all those nice players you rave about?

Write me up a another hypothetical story please.





Jordan!
Jordan!
Jordan!

Fuck you young generation! You don't know basketball!




Do you honestly believe your arguments are entirely impartial and carries any sort of objectivity?

At this point, I must say I give up.

[Dee4Three]

By now you should have noticed I do not fly much by fictitious narratives. While there could be valid points, they're just hypothetical assumptions just like countless counterarguments out there.

Like how do you explain Jordan's team won more than 50+ games without him against such tough foes you are sucking onto. How do you explain Jordan's team made to the second round without him in era of such fucking toughness. Do you believe LBJ's squad(or former) is capable of doing the same thing in the ruins of east?

So LBJ faced Kobe, Durant, CP3, Shaq, Duncan, Wade, Dirk, KG, Tmac, Pierce, etc etc, in his era, they're shittier than Ewing and all those nice players you rave about?

Write me up a another hypothetical story please.





Jordan!
Jordan!
Jordan!

Fuck you young generation! You don't know basketball!




Do you honestly believe your arguments are entirely impartial and carries any sort of objectivity?

At this point, I must say I give up.

You have stated you were done or leaving a couple times now, so this is number three, must be something about this thread that keeps you entertained.

LeBron won after joining the best SG in the east and one of the best PF's in the east in 11-12, after he couldn't get it done in Cleveland when almost every player you mentioned was passed primes. Also, the players you named: Kobe, Durant, CP3, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, and TMAC were all out west. With the exception of Durant, all were passed prime or retired (Shaq). He has a 3 out of 8 record against the West in the finals for a reason, btw.

When Jordan won in 90-91, Magic had just come off of his MVP season with the Lakers (He was the MVP in 89-90), and the Pistons were back to back champs (In the east). He had to contend with Barkley and Nique in the east, as well as a Primed Patrick Ewing led Knicks. West wise (for the regular season) he had to face off against possibly the best center ever The Dream), David Robinson led Spurs, a Portland Trail Blazers team lead by Drexler/Kersey/Porter/Duckworth, etc. The competition was still much better in the EAST and WEST, and Jordan himself had a 3rd year homegrown Pippen, who got better each year the more he played with Jordan. The league was filled with ultimate competitors.

I am a huge Scottie Pippen fan, huge. I love his game on both sides of the ball. He also had the ability to make his teammates better on the floor (BJ Armstrong and Horace Grant were all-stars with Pippen leading the way). Saying Pippen could do great things is not a detriment to Jordan, both were amazing players. It makes Jordan no less of a legend. Pippen helped get them to 50-32, but a second round exit to the Knicks, who were a fantastic team. They got bounced by the Knicks because Pippen couldn't lift them over the hump on the offensive end.

Last edited by Dee4Three on Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

James may be the best averaged skilled player to make the hall of fame... Let alone win a mvp, all NBA, all star etc

Wizards MJ now!? Mic drop

James may be the best averaged skilled player to make the hall of fame... Let alone win a mvp, all NBA, all star etc

Wizards MJ now!? Mic drop

C'mon Air Gordon, you know you have a soft spot for the Wizards Jordan.

Wizards Jordan highlights are actually my favorites. Pretty much every shot he took was a contested jumper.

Wizards Jordan highlights are actually my favorites. Pretty much every shot he took was a contested jumper.

He certainly took some tough shots. This is one of my favorites... look at what he could do... at 40.. against a speedy Nets team.

phpBB [video]

Pretty much every shot he took was a contested jumper.

So did Kobe in his entire career. GOAT.

Pretty much every shot he took was a contested jumper.

So did Kobe in his entire career. GOAT.

Well, we'll have to wait and see how Kobe performs at age 40, won't we? Two more years, that is. Please, stop it. This is not about Kobe and about how he's not as great as MJ. It's about MJ and about how great he was. Don't confuse two separate issues.

JR Smith only shoots bad/contested 3's. Confirmed GOAT?

phpBB [video]

JR Smith only shoots bad/contested 3's. Confirmed GOAT?

phpBB [video]

He created quite a bit of space on a lot of those. He also just shot 58% from three in the finals.

His shot selection has always been a bit questionable, but he's always been capable of getting hot and going on a streak.

I think what I've always seen missing in Smith's game was his mid-range game. I felt like he always had the ability to beat his defender off the dribble, but seldom would you see him take that tweener shot or a mid-range jumper.

Nuggets/Hornets JR Smith was super athletic, and had some big plays at the hoop. But I felt like he was never aggressive enough, he would just settle for a bomb, and sometimes a guarded bomb. Like in 06-07 in his athletic prime, he took 10 shots a game... but 6 were three's. I felt he had the ability to do more.

His defense did get better over the last couple years, he puts a lot more effort in.

He really started focusing the past 2 years

well... except for one instance

phpBB [video]

He really started focusing the past 2 years

well... except for one instance

phpBB [video]

Ha, yeah I don't know what that was. What the hell was he thinking? He wasn't.

I also find his defense well improved. But his ball handling is very weak imho. At least in the finals I felt like he fumbled it a lot. I dont know about the turnover stats though.

I also find his defense well improved. But his ball handling is very weak imho. At least in the finals I felt like he fumbled it a lot. I dont know about the turnover stats though.

Playoffs per 100 posessions for his career, it was his second lowest. (The 1.2 is this years playoffs)



He had 12 turnovers in his 18 games played in the postseason (for his raw stats).

But, he shot 58% from 3 in the finals, so I don't think it was nerves (Thats my opinion), I have always thought of Smith as a capable player to get by his guy, and he has shown flashes of doing it.... he just doesn't do it enough. You will also see him catch the ball and have a defender jump out at him, and he could just step in and hit a 15 footer, but he seldom does that.

I'm starting to think JR Smith loves defense on him.... lol

Oh and I also watched a vid about the Cavs breakdowns concerning their transition defense. And JR was really the worst guy. He loses his opponent a lot in transition.

So I think I would consider him a decent perimetre one on one defender, better than he was in his early years. But mental breakdowns are still there.

There have been some examples where he ran out to Curry on the three point line and gave up the easy layup - but these are cases where nowadays I am not even sure if an open Curry is actually worse than the layup. Open Curry is what? 60-70% three points. Open layup 99% ... still not sure what I like more ...

Oh and I also watched a vid about the Cavs breakdowns concerning their transition defense. And JR was really the worst guy. He loses his opponent a lot in transition.

So I think I would consider him a decent perimetre one on one defender, better than he was in his early years. But mental breakdowns are still there.

There have been some examples where he ran out to Curry on the three point line and gave up the easy layup - but these are cases where nowadays I am not even sure if an open Curry is actually worse than the layup. Open Curry is what? 60-70% three points. Open layup 99% ... still not sure what I like more ...

He still has the mental blunders, but his effort is better.... I was a huge Nuggets fan when Iverson/Melo/Smith/Kenyon Martin/Marcus Camby/and Nene were there.... but JR Smiths "me me me, only offense" attitude was a killer. He still put up points in a hurry, but seemed to care ZERO about the rest of the game (Including defense)

When I see people jump out at Curry (Like leave the ground), it kills me. Because he loves to just side step those and drill a three (You can picture it, easily). It's better almost to stay on the ground and attempt a less aggressive close-out, that way you can avoid that side-step move he does after the pump fake.

Pretty much every shot he took was a contested jumper.

So did Kobe in his entire career. GOAT.

Well, we'll have to wait and see how Kobe performs at age 40, won't we? Two more years, that is. Please, stop it. This is not about Kobe and about how he's not as great as MJ. It's about MJ and about how great he was. Don't confuse two separate issues.

You're confusing my admiration for Kobe as a diss at him.

When I see people jump out at Curry (Like leave the ground), it kills me. Because he loves to just side step those and drill a three (You can picture it, easily). It's better almost to stay on the ground and attempt a less aggressive close-out, that way you can avoid that side-step move he does after the pump fake.

I see too much of this nowadays, and it drives me nuts. Why are these clowns leaping at jump-shooters?

When I see people jump out at Curry (Like leave the ground), it kills me. Because he loves to just side step those and drill a three (You can picture it, easily). It's better almost to stay on the ground and attempt a less aggressive close-out, that way you can avoid that side-step move he does after the pump fake.

I see too much of this nowadays, and it drives me nuts. Why are these clowns leaping at jump-shooters?

Did you see how many times the Celtics did that at Kevin Love? Love kept either just side stepping, or jumping into the defender.

It's insane.

i would argue that lebrons body with birds mind would be the most unstoppable player imaginable

Correction: Bill Russell's mind. No one had a higher basketball IQ than him.

i guess we should break it down more. when i said birds mind i really meant his work ethic, his killer instinct. if bird had lebrons frame and athleticism it would be down right scary. the way he sacrificed his body and still played at an elite level is amazing. with lebrons frame he would freight train people and remain mostly injury free. i will agree on the basketball IQ, i would go with Russell or even rodman over just about anyone who ever played the game though lebron is no slouch either in this department

Larry the legend would chain smoke and drink shit loads of beers. If he hit the gym instead like LBJ, I think he'd have been a hybrid of Shaq and Curry.

Larry the legend would chain smoke and drink shit loads of beers. If he hit the gym instead like LBJ, I think he'd have been a hybrid of Shaq and Curry.

Yeah, the mentality back then was quite different. But one thing that made Larry stand out from most his contemporaries was that he did practice through repetition a lot more than anybody else. He didn't hit the weights excessively, but there may be few guys who did more shooting drills than him.

Larry the legend would chain smoke and drink shit loads of beers. If he hit the gym instead like LBJ, I think he'd have been a hybrid of Shaq and Curry.

would he be the Schwarzenegger hybrid or the DeVito hybrid?

Larry the legend would chain smoke and drink shit loads of beers. If he hit the gym instead like LBJ, I think he'd have been a hybrid of Shaq and Curry.

Yeah, the mentality back then was quite different. But one thing that made Larry stand out from most his contemporaries was that he did practice through repetition a lot more than anybody else. He didn't hit the weights excessively, but there may be few guys who did more shooting drills than him.

There are some nice glory stories of his off season conditioning/ practicing ( and infidelity & illegitimate children )

Gotta give him his props for adding a new moves to his arsenal during the offseason