Payton Traded to Celtics

[Riot]

and you can't keep a damn conversation to rest, if you want me to prove you what they said IM me. randy84ratio I would glady continue this agrument.

[Carlos Boozer]

and you can't keep a damn conversation to rest, if you want me to prove you what they said IM me. randy84ratio I would glady continue this agrument.

Stop daydreaming fool You are weird

[Riot]

what? I just don't want this topic locked up because it's such a hit

IM me jackal if you want to continue this and you want me to show you the proof.

[KoBeKiDSkiLLsBryaNt]

Marcus Banks, leading the league in steals for 2003/2004? I'm sorry but that's completely false; he did not even lead all rookies in steals during the 2003/2004 campaign (he was ranked sixth, tied with TJ Ford) and was fifth on the Celtics.

Actually he led the NBA in steals per 48 min with 3.05 not per game sorry for the mix up. But those are still pretty good numbers.*

For all the potential he might have shown so far, he is not at their level yet. With all due respect, the suggestion that the addition of Banks will prevent the Lakers falling victim to the damage Parker and Bibby are capable of is just absurd.

I agree with you Banks he may not be in the same level as Parker or Bibby, but I never said having Banks in the line-up will prevent getting burned by the likes of Parker and Bibby I said that it SHOULD HELP with a player like Banks who actually plays tough nose defense, instead of having GP who is not the same defensive player as he was in Seattle and Derek Fisher who is a step slow on defense.*

I must respectfully disagree. They might fit better in the system that Rudy T plans to run, but I would much rather have a backcourt of Payton and Fisher.

Your right Banks and Atkins will fit in Rudy T's system and Payton would've also. But Payton is in the twighlight of his career and he put alot of people down last year with his lack-luster performance. Banks has yet to hit the surface of his full potential, he has the potential to be a lock down defender, Banks also has quick hands and solid lateral quickness. The loss of Fisher will hurt alot, but everyone knows Fisher has peaked and was always burned by the elite PG's. Vujacic is a couple of years away he has tons of ability to be a really good player in the league some-day the down-side to his game is that he needs to bulk up to improve his strength on defense. Bobbit will be a suprise he had alot of praises from Brian Shaw who coached him in the summer-league.*

[FanOfAll]

SERIOUSLY ITS GONNA BE WEIRD HAVIG PAYTON,PEIRCE,DAVIS, AND LEWIS ON THE SAME TEAM BUT AT THE SAME TIME THAT MAKES THEM A SERIOUS PLAYOFF TEAM, AND I ALSO WANT PAYTON TO WIN A RING SO BEING THERE IMPROVES THE CHANCES EVEN THOUGH HIS GREATEST CHANCE WAS LAST YEAR WITH THE LAKERS

Lewis? Did Raef LaFrentz chane his last name to Lewis? Or was that Jiri Welsch? Celtics don't have a Lewis.

Banks is definitely a better fast break point guard than Payton. If he's not fastest player in the league, he's top 2. Him or Barbosa. He loves running the break, thus why he was drafted. He just needs more maturity, experience, knowledge, decision making, etc.

[GloveGuy]

Banks is definitely a better fast break point guard than Payton.

There's a difference between being fast and being good at the fast break. Payton can turn teams from playing a half-court offense to being a fast break team. Banks on the other hand has POTENTIAL written all over him. He's not a difference maker just year. Plus, to be a good fast break point guard, you must have good decision making, something he still lacks.

[ATTENTIONWHORE]

Lankyman? I think the whole community would puke if you ever turned into a mod. That's all I have to say. All you do is post in the general talk with stuff not many people actually read, hmm...real mod worthy stuff.

Yeah...and you are???...I was kidding...jeez...people DO read my stuff..as evidenced by this link:
http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~nbalive/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16415
504 Views....66 Posts in there and counting...Thank You. Now Shut Up.

[Sauru]

banks may have alot of potential but there was a reason the celts traded him, west is better/more potential. haveing a vet like payton help tutor a rookie like west can be a great thing. plus you all dont even get the point of this trade. its like you dont wanna even talk about it. this aint about payton running the celts offense. this is about next year payton and fox are gone and we are under the cap for the first time in a very long time. and oh btw we got a future pick of the lakers(i say future cause i dont think they will make the playoffs this season)

[FanOfAll]

Banks is definitely a better fast break point guard than Payton.

There's a difference between being fast and being good at the fast break. Payton can turn teams from playing a half-court offense to being a fast break team. Banks on the other hand has POTENTIAL written all over him. He's not a difference maker just year. Plus, to be a good fast break point guard, you must have good decision making, something he still lacks.

You are 100% correct. I was definitely a little too rash in praising Banks. He has the potential to be a great fast break point, but not right now.

banks may have alot of potential but there was a reason the celts traded him, west is better/more potential. haveing a vet like payton help tutor a rookie like west can be a great thing. plus you all dont even get the point of this trade. its like you dont wanna even talk about it. this aint about payton running the celts offense. this is about next year payton and fox are gone and we are under the cap for the first time in a very long time. and oh btw we got a future pick of the lakers(i say future cause i dont think they will make the playoffs this season)

I think Banks has a lot more potential than West. Banks has more physical tools and his biggest problem is his head, which can be learned. West however, I feel is better right now and IMO will be better in 3 years. He's just so much smarter, great vision, good passer, excellent shot too. He has it in the head.

[Andrew]

Actually he led the NBA in steals per 48 min with 3.05 not per game sorry for the mix up. But those are still pretty good numbers.*

Indeed he did, and that is noteworthy. But in my opinion, per 48 minute averages are a little misleading, especially when the player only played around 17 minutes per game. Who's to say that he would actually lead the league in steals if he was playing 40+ minutes per game?

I agree with you Banks he may not be in the same level as Parker or Bibby, but I never said having Banks in the line-up will prevent getting burned by the likes of Parker and Bibby I said that it SHOULD HELP with a player like Banks who actually plays tough nose defense, instead of having GP who is not the same defensive player as he was in Seattle and Derek Fisher who is a step slow on defense.*

Perhaps I interpreted your post incorrectly:

so that should help solve the Lakers getting burned by the likes of Bibby, and Parker

The way I read it, I took it to mean that you were suggesting the addition of Banks would completely solve the problem. My mistake.

Your right Banks and Atkins will fit in Rudy T's system and Payton would've also. But Payton is in the twighlight of his career and he put alot of people down last year with his lack-luster performance. Banks has yet to hit the surface of his full potential, he has the potential to be a lock down defender, Banks also has quick hands and solid lateral quickness.

Payton's best days are behind him and age is beginning to take its toll, but he's still far from washed up and his subpar performance in the playoffs is due in part to the system he was playing in. The triangle offense as we have seen is capable of producing championships, though Payton's role in the triangle did not suit his style of play.

Replacing Payton (who isn't getting younger and will be a free agent at the season's end) with a younger player might not be such a bad idea long term, though Banks' potential remains potential until it is realised. Banks could become the point guard the Lakers need, but until that time and based upon their current level of play, I would consider the proven Payton the better choice. But that certainly could change.

At the end of the day, I don't think this deal will make the Lakers significantly better than they were last year, and assuming they abandon the triangle Payton could have been just as effective as the Lakers are probably hoping Banks will be.

[magius]

just wondering, historically, has trading a star player for a younger player ever actually worked to the advantage of the team receiving the younger player? I'm sure it has, but i forget, and its interesting to see the percentage of times it has and hasnt. Id be willing to bet that more often than not that type of deal fucks the receivee of the young gun over.

[Matt]

SERIOUSLY ITS GONNA BE WEIRD HAVIG PAYTON,PEIRCE,DAVIS, AND LEWIS ON THE SAME TEAM BUT AT THE SAME TIME THAT MAKES THEM A SERIOUS PLAYOFF TEAM, AND I ALSO WANT PAYTON TO WIN A RING SO BEING THERE IMPROVES THE CHANCES EVEN THOUGH HIS GREATEST CHANCE WAS LAST YEAR WITH THE LAKERS

hehe, i had to do that

[Andrew]

just wondering, historically, has trading a star player for a younger player ever actually worked to the advantage of the team receiving the younger player? I'm sure it has, but i forget, and its interesting to see the percentage of times it has and hasnt. Id be willing to bet that more often than not that type of deal fucks the receivee of the young gun over.

Good question. I can't remember a deal that involved a star for potential, but one example of an established veteran (who happened to make his lone All-Star appearance the previous season) for a young player with potential would be Dale Davis for Jermaine O'Neal back in 2000.

Actually, Grant Hill for Ben Wallace might qualify. With Wallace, the Pistons have gone further than they ever did with Hill.

[Matt]

^^^Yeah, although Magic thought that John Amaechi had more potential then Ben Wallace.

[Rens]

Good question. I can't remember a deal that involved a star for potential, but one example of an established veteran (who happened to make his lone All-Star appearance the previous season) for a young player with potential would be Dale Davis for Jermaine O'Neal back in 2000.

Marbury to New York for all those young players/picks
Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler
Gary Payton for Marcus Banks (though Payton isn't really a star anymore)

I think the trade Phoenix made is one example of where it's better for the team receiving the potential.

[Andrew]

Until that potential has been fulfilled, the team getting the proven talent has the better end of the deal in my opinion. The Marbury to New York deal has certainly placed Phoenix in a better position to rebuild while New York's options are limited in the immediate future, but for the moment the trade has benefited the Knicks more than the Suns.

[Rens]

Nash + Richardson + Lampe + picks in my opinion is at least equal to Marbury and Hardaway already, and it only gets better for Phoenix in the future when the picks, Lampe and Barbosa developing.
While the Suns didn't even get much worse after trading Marbury and Hardaway away, the Knicks only got marginally better as well.

[Andrew]

Factoring in their offseason moves, a result of the cap space freed up by the Marbury deal, I'll concede that ultimately the Suns came out a little better. I think the success of their new roster is an important factor though. If they fail to make the playoffs with a better roster and the young guys don't live up to their potential then the deal isn't quite as good.

But yes, I didn't consider their moves this offseason, so the Marbury trade isn't as bad as it looked at the time.

I do however think that the Brand for Chandler trade doesn't really qualify just yet. At best, I think it's 50-50, though the Clippers seem to have benefited more than the Bulls.

[Rens]

Let's hope for the Bulls Chandler lives up to his potential and can overcome his injury problems.

[Andrew]

That's what I'm hoping. I don't think the Bulls should wait too much longer though. They can't give up on Curry and Chandler before they've had a good chance to become the players they were expected to be, but at the same time if they wait too long without any result, it will have been a waste of time and more importantly, it will be difficult to move them.

[Carmo]

I just saw that the Celtics changed their end of the deal and sent Jumaine Jones to the Lakers and brought back Marcus Banks! They also get to keep the draft pick. This is bad for the Lakers as now they have no point gaurd!

[DipSetVC]

I don't think Payton's even going to report to Boston, he wants to win.

[GloveGuy]

I just saw that the Celtics changed their end of the deal and sent Jumaine Jones to the Lakers and brought back Marcus Banks! They also get to keep the draft pick. This is bad for the Lakers as now they have no point gaurd!

Mitch is high on Sasha. Plus they've still got Chucky. Odom and Kobe could also handle the PG duties.

[Carmo]

I just saw that the Celtics changed their end of the deal and sent Jumaine Jones to the Lakers and brought back Marcus Banks! They also get to keep the draft pick. This is bad for the Lakers as now they have no point gaurd!

Mitch is high on Sasha. Plus they've still got Chucky. Odom and Kobe could also handle the PG duties.

Very true. I should probably think a bit more.

[Sauru]

man this deal just gets better and better for the celts. not only do we get to keep out 2nd round pick but now we get to keep banks to see if his potential turns into something better than what west got now. even if payton dont report(assuming the celts dont cancel the trade) i am very happy with this trade. 2 contracts expire at years end and we still got 2 quality points to run the offense.