Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby deihatein on Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:40 am

So I just watched Summerslam. The inferno match was ok but I could barely hear the crowd which was hot in every match that I have seen. The Del Rio-Christian was good so is Punk/Lesnar albeit with the predictable finish. Bryan basically destroyed Cena with the knee but Triple H is a dick.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby koberulz on Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:16 am

Qballer wrote:Also, the tornado DDT through the turnbuckles was cool, I had never seen that before.

I've never seen a Generico match without it, and I've seen a lot of Generico matches. Which is where the indy-knowledgeable viewers are going to disagree with the majority of the live crowd who would never have heard of Generico (although there is generally a reasonable amount of 'Ole!' chants, so obviously some have) as to how good the match was. They're all popping huge for one of the most remarkable spots they've ever seen, while I know it's coming a mile off and it doesn't surprise me in the least.

I went back and watched their match at Race to the Top Tournament Night 2 earlier today, and they did a lot of the same spots, including the wrist clutch tornado DDT into the elevated European. Castagnoli hit it completely clean, and I must say it didn't seem nearly as impressive as it did in their NXT match. However, Castagnoli's strength advantage didn't really come up at all; it was much more a part of the story in Cesaro-Zayn III. Reviewers seemed to rate Castagnoli-Generico higher than Cesaro-Zayn III, but I honestly thought Cesaro-Zayn III was the better of the two. Watching them trade rollups, counters and other various lucha-type spots isn't, to me, as appealing as watching Cesaro go out and toss Zayn around like a rag doll. That said, I only got to watch Castagnoli-Generico on my computer, rather than my TV, which I hate doing, so I'd rather give it another look before passing too much judgment.

I didn't see anything wrong about the guy selling/not selling but he could've sold everything just a tad bit more.

Don't those two clauses contradict?

Watch the match again. Zayn doesn't sell a body part or injury the entire match, instead just seeming groggy. It works in and around the sleeper, because that's what the sleeper does (and he sold that like a motherfucker), but he really should have been selling all the work Cesaro was doing on his back/ribs (not that it ever played into the finish, which is another flaw in the match). And again, I hated that he was barely even able to tap on the sleeper, stumbled to his feet, ate a running European and kicked out. Should've been a foot on the ropes at best, given how much he put that sleeper over. He probably shouldn't have been in a pinning predicament at all that early; it may have been better to give him a hope spot to get some recovery time between the sleeper and his first kickout. You wouldn't even have to change much: Cesaro charges, eats boot, backs up, both guys sell for a bit, Cesaro charges back in, hits the running European, and everything else continues exactly as it did.




dei. wrote:The inferno match was ok

No it wasn't, it was terrible. And no, I'm not going to watch it back so I can refresh my memory and explain why. And the thing that's been overlooked in all of this is that WWE never explained the stipulation until the PPV. What the hell sort of build is that? And speaking of build, why are we having a ring of fire match already? It's the first match of the feud. Kane's apparently taking time off, but still, it could've been built to in a way that makes sense.

And speaking of the crowd: chanting the commentator's names during a match you don't particularly like doesn't make you cool. This is especially true if you don't bother to watch the match long enough to find out if it's any good (it wasn't, but that doesn't really change much). It worked fantastically the night after Mania, because everything fell into place for the match in the ring to be shit on, but emulating that crowd isn't going to get you as over as that crowd was. At least the UK crowd, which fell into the same trap of simply repeating the post-WM crowd's chants (including the thoroughly obnoxious "we are awesome", which was at least true in the earlier instance), had the excuse of the show being built almost exclusively around what they were going to do to top the post-WM crowd and the obvious need for them to at least try to do something. Four months later, in a city that's not renowned for being smart, there are simply no excuses.

Punk/Lesnar albeit with the predictable finish.

Not sure how that was predictable.

They've really fucked themselves with Lesnar's contract. They want him to come in, be an unstoppable monster, and put guys over. But those two goals are incompatible if he's only wrestling a couple of PPVs a year. If he loses and puts guys over, his image as a monster is completely ruined, and if he wins he's not getting anyone over. It's never going to work unless he starts wrestling on TV or, at the very least, more PPV matches so he can squash the fuck out of some midcarders or something.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby [Q] on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:01 am

I have never seen any Generico matches so I was geniunely surprised by that move

ok you didn't like how he didn't sell any body part injurues... i guess i was ok with him only doing the whole groggy thing
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby JaoSming on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:39 am

what body specific moves did Cesaro do to him? Wouldn't head shots and slams just be a woozy sell?
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby koberulz on Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:33 pm

JaoSming wrote:Wouldn't head shots and slams just be a woozy sell?

Getting hit in the head usually makes your head hurt. Landing back-first from six feet in the air makes your back hurt. The only thing that should lead to a woozy sell and nothing else is anything in the sleeper/choke area.

what body specific moves did Cesaro do to him?

Just to the back/ribs: Shoulder to the midsection, kick to the gut, stomp to the chest, gut punches, powerbomb, clothesline, double stomp to the chest, backdrop, (botched) double stomp to the chest, bridging Last Call, shoulder tackle, Zayn landing on his ribs after a dropkick, Zayn crashing into the turnbuckles after the running European uppercut, Fucking Machine Suplex, Zayn landing on the floor off the tornado DDT, Neutralizer.

Compare that to all his other offense: flapjack to the turnbuckle, mounted punches, forearm to the head, sleeper, stomp to the head, sleeper, sleeper, running European uppercut, hotshot, forearms to the face, toss-up European uppercut.

So not only is the back/ribs list far longer, it also includes every major offensive move other than the two European uppercuts and the sleepers, the latter of which he was selling fine.


Watching it back to do those lists has led me to the following two conclusions: Zayn had way too much offense way too often, which killed the heat and made his comeback completely disappear, and Cesaro throwing in a taunt after the cutoff made Zayn look completely stupid for not getting up and hitting him from behind.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby koberulz on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:54 am

With all the above said, it occurred to me today that I'm probably being overly picky because the general reaction/hype was "FIVE STARS!!! MATCH OF THE YEAR!!!", so it was always going to disappoint and the negatives stand out more. If I'd gone in with no expectations either way, it probably would have impressed me more. The audible spot-calling in Cena-Bryan was far worse than any of the transgressions in Zayn-Cesaro III, for example, but I dismissed that so much easier and quicker.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby JaoSming on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:01 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE7i0xQgakw
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Lean on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:28 am

One of those rare good promos!
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby buzzy on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:54 am

The Bellas looked so pathetic with their bitching. Almost ruined the whole segment.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby koberulz on Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:16 am

Image

...I have no words.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby buzzy on Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:25 am

I'd like to think they're fully aware of the irony and are just being heels.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby koberulz on Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:36 am

I would hope so, but the "if WWE didn't" bit doesn't really fit that explanation.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby buzzy on Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:51 am

phpBB [video]
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:48 am

"Say that to our face!" ...uh, she is?

I'm guessing the Bellas are working with that Tweet, blurring the lines as AJ did. Great promo, though if it was meant to get AJ over as a heel and cement the rest of the divas as the faces, I'd say it had the opposite effect.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby koberulz on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:32 pm

If they thought there was even 10% of their audience that would disagree with AJ, there are serious problems.

Meanwhile, if you feel like losing a few IQ points: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 332AAPqHvX
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby JaoSming on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:59 pm

eh, I save the IQ dumbing for clicking on Wrestlezone exclusive reporting or articles :rimshot:
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby JaoSming on Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:30 am

....I don't even

[Hogan] was asked what it was going to take to make TNA successful.

Hogan said that Eric Bischoff "needed to be given the keys to the car" and that, "somebody somewhere" needed to "drop all the resources we need like we had in the WWE and the WWF, whether it be cameras or money or vehicles or advertising" in order for TNA to work "in a perfect world."

So, Hulk Hogan's idea on how to make TNA successful would be to have Eric Bischoff in charge and unlimited (financial) resources, sort of the same scenario that Bischoff had when WCW Monday Nitro was launched under Turner Broadcasting in 1995. Yep!

http://pwinsider.com/article/79894/hulk ... d.html?p=1

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and for fun/balance

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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:11 pm

Watched those clips here:
http://www.wrestlingnewsworld.com/hulk- ... eeds-more/

Definitely some interesting answers. At times, he's quite humble and insightful, though other times it seems like he's still stuck in his Hulk bubble.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby koberulz on Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:32 pm

Was last week's SmackDown the first time WWE used that cage?

Good thing someone thought to hang it up before the event, too, or Vickie's decision to book a match using it wouldn't have worked out very well.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby Andrew on Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:45 pm

I guess she'd been mulling the idea on the way to the arena that day. That's probably what we're supposed to think.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby koberulz on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:06 pm

Apart from the fact that the match wasn't even scheduled at the time, much less the stipulation. It's a taped show, too; they could've thrown in an intermission or something, put the cage up the way TNA has to, and then shown ten seconds of it on TV, commercial, and it's finished when we get back. There's still the question of why the cage was in the building, but given that they'd be transporting all the sets anyway it's not that much of a stretch.

I remember one recapper for a Taboo Tuesday or Cyber Sunday in which one of the options was a cage match pointing out, when the cage match was inevitably selected, that it was obviously rigged because the cage had been hanging there the entire event, so everyone clearly knew what the result was going to be. As though WWE wouldn't hang the cage up if there was any chance they wouldn't need it.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby buzzy on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:47 pm

That's easily explainable in kayfabe though. Have every accessory you might need ready for use, regardless if it's actually going to be needed.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby shadowgrin on Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:54 am

What buzzy said, same way underneath the ring is used as a storage for things like a sledgehammer, fire extinguisher, tables, ladders, and garbage cans.
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby JaoSming on Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:41 am

This is why I like dirtsheets, stories on top/behind stories

http://pwinsider.com/article/79927/tna- ... y.html?p=1
As we noted on PWInsider.com, Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff took part in a Q&A in Toronto over the weekend as part of the Fan Expo event. A fan asked Hogan what could finally be done to make TNA successful.

Hogan said that Eric Bischoff "needed to be given the keys to the car" and that, "somebody somewhere" needed to "drop all the resources we need like we had in the WWE and the WWF, whether it be cameras or money or vehicles or advertising" in order for TNA to work "in a perfect world."

In asking around about what TNA's response to the comments were, I was told that a number of people within the company were upset about the statement for several reasons and that there's absolutely heat on the duo for even insinuating that the Carter family wasn't giving TNA proper resources.

As one source noted, no matter how you feel about her, the comments can't be seen as anything but a direct slap in the face to TNA President Dixie Carter, coming from her top paid talent, no less.

"Even if you agreed with Hulk, " said one TNA wrestler that spoke under condition of anomynity, "the way it was said and the way it comes across in that video just completely disrespected Dixie, even if that's not what he meant."

Two, the reality is that to many in the company, Bischoff has been given the keys to the car. From the day he and Hogan came into the company, TNA management has acquiesced to their creative direction and ideas - whether it be talent that was brought in, the removal of the six-sided ring, the failure that came with moving Impact Wrestling to Mondays opposite Raw, leaving the Impact Zone and taking TNA on the road, etc. These were all ideas that came from the Bischoff/Hogan era that TNA agreed to under the auspice of growing the company.

The problem with all that is, as one source noted, there has been no growth in any facet of TNA's business since The Bischoff/Hogan regime began - not in live events, not in ratings, not in licensing - not in any one department or aspect of the promotion.

Instead, the company went on the road and didn't see the estimated revenue that they believed would come with it, forcing them to restructure from the ground up and putting them into a position where they have to be the "evil company" letting Jesse Soresen go and have to be in a position where money is an issue re-signing their original poster boy, AJ Styles.

At the same time, TNA has paid Hogan a good salary and put Bischoff into a position where he became the conduit and liason between Spike and TNA, even before Dixie Carter, who created and cultivated the relationship between the two sides.

So, the pair continue to reap the rewards of being part of the company while others have lost their jobs, have had their deals restructured for less money and watch as the company continues to, at best, run on a treadmill and at worse, slide backwards. To put it in layman's terms, TNA is putting out more money to be exactly where they were, or worse, in comparison to before Bischoff/Hogan's regime began.

So, for Hogan to say that TNA should just hand Bischoff a blank check and full power, well, you can imagine how much all that has endeared the duo inside the TNA offices this week, especially when everyone's work and deals have been scrutinized closely in recent months.

A number of people noted that they would be waiting to see what the interaction between the duo and Dixie Carter would be at tonight's taping in Cleveland, the first time Hogan has been at a TNA taping in a month.

"Hulk came across like he pretty much said that the company didn't have anyone strong in charge and Eric was the savior," said the TNA wrestler. "Well, they've been here years and Eric hasn't saved anyone yet."
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Re: Professional Wrestling (WWE, TNA, ROH, etc)

Postby koberulz on Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:27 am

buzzy wrote:That's easily explainable in kayfabe though. Have every accessory you might need ready for use, regardless if it's actually going to be needed.

If you're talking about the Taboo Tuesday/Cyber Sunday example, I agree. I disagree with the recapper who thought it was evidence of a rigged vote/the result shouldn't have been surprising. If you're talking about SmackDown, that'd require the cage being up every week, which it just isn't.

Speaking of things under the ring, I was watching Kevin Steen: Hell Rising the other day, and during one of the matches someone went under the ring and came up with spare ropes, along with those metal bits that attach the rope to the ringpost (as used in the Cena-Umaga WWE Championship match at the 07 Rumble), and proceeded to use those as weapons, which was just brilliant.
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