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Postby Jackal on Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:48 pm

Payton is leaning towards returning to Laker Land:

When asked what his plans are for next season, Gary Payton smiled.

"Well," Payton said, "I'm leaning towards coming back."

He didn't say why.


It has been a difficult season for Payton and he has been upset with his role in the offense, lashing out at times, hinting that he might opt out of his contract when the season is over.

But Payton will be 36 in July, and it looks as if his skills are eroding. He's due to earn $5.4 million next season, the final year of a two-year deal he signed last summer.

Because of his poor play, Payton might not get more than the veteran's exception of $1.5 million if he opts out.

Payton, who has had his share of run-ins with Coach Phil Jackson, was asked about a story that he refused to go back into Game 2 Tuesday night when Jackson asked him.

Payton said he told Jackson to leave Derek Fisher in the game because he was playing better. He also said his feet have been sore for the past two months and that the pain flared up again.

Payton added that if Jackson had insisted and he really was needed, "I would have gone back in."

Payton said he got new orthotics in his shoes and that he increased his shoe size from his normal 13½ to 14. He worked out before the game.

"It felt good," Payton said. "I'll be all right."


Malone toughs it out:

At no time did Karl Malone consider sitting out Game 3 of the NBA Finals Thursday night to get ready for Game 4 Sunday.

Malone has a sprained medial collateral ligament in his right knee. He re-aggravated it in the first quarter of Game 2 Tuesday night.

Had Malone sat out, he would have had four days to rest it before playing again.

But it's the same injury Malone suffered back in December and forced him to miss 39 games.

"It's the same injury I had when I missed three months," Malone said. "Three days is not going to do anything that three months couldn't do."

So he limped up and down the court Thursday night, playing 18 minutes.

Malone scored five points and grabbed four rebounds.

"When I put that uniform on, I've got to be the best that I can be," Malone said after the game. "Sometimes on some night, your mind is telling you to do some things and you don't respond, which is disappointing. I let my teammates down."

Malone left the game with 6:01 left in the third quarter and never returned.

"Karl showed a lot of guts," Shaquille O'Neal said. "He's obviously hurt, limping up and down."


Gary Payton has two sore arches, part of the reason he did not play the fourth quarter or overtime of Game 2, and the reason he declined to go back into the game when Coach Phil Jackson requested it near the end of regulation.

Payton said Thursday he would need the summer to heal, but in the meantime has been fitted with new orthotic devices he hopes will ease the pain.

According to Jackson, he asked Payton to replace Derek Fisher with about three minutes left in the fourth quarter Tuesday night. Payton said he was in pain, and that he also was cold from sitting since the end of the third quarter.

"I was stiff, and Fish had just hit that big three," Payton said.

Had his coach insisted, Payton said, "I would have gone back in."

Jackson said that he did not think Payton had injured the team, and that he appreciated Payton's honesty.

"We're OK with that," Jackson said.


Karl Malone was involved in a pregame altercation with a fan that led to the fan's being expelled.

According to an NBA official, a complaint of assault was filed by the fan and tapes of the incident were obtained by local police.

Witnesses said the fan, whose name was unavailable, became confrontational when Malone arrived on the floor Thursday night before Game 3. Malone, according to the league officials, put his hand near the man's face when spit upon and the fan then shoved Malone's hand away.


Hehehe, he tried to file a complaint against Malone, asshole..sadly the obtained tapes, ehehe he got expelled. :lol:

Sure, be a fan, but to spit on a guy, pfff. :roll:


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Postby . on Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:12 pm

Well, Im glad Gary is leaning towards a return with the Lakers, maybe he didnt get the season he expected to be. But still, in my eyes if he plays in the right situation he is still 1 of the better Pointguads in the NBA, also having a PG boost from the bench in Derek Fisher is also better then letting him start and have basicly no backup pointguard.

I really hope Karl will return next season if his knee will turn out well, he played a major roll in the Lakers success Imo, and who knows what would happen if you had Slava or another forward playing 35 minutes per game and defending players like Garnett and Duncan all the time, maybe the Lakers wouldnt be in the finals without him.
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Postby hmm on Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:50 pm

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Last edited by hmm on Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby . on Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:42 am

Selfish? I really dont think he is playing selfish and I actually want him to be a bigger option in the offense then he is now, he passes the ball out alot even if he can take his defender 1 on 1 which is what he should do. And how does is seem that he is going to leave the Lakers? because you think he plays selfish?
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Postby Full Surface on Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:17 am

If Payton wins a championship this year, there is no point in coming back to the Lakers. It would be great if he finished his career with the Supersonics instead. He would get more touches on the ball, instead of just passing it to Shaq.
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Postby GloveGuy on Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:52 am

I'll expect Phil and Payton to sit down after the series and talk about next year's plans -- how the offense is run, Payton's role on the team. Hopefully, they'll be able to work out a mutual agreement, where Payton will have a larger role in the offense, and it will play moreso to his own strengths and benefit the team at the same time.

Payton's hinted a few times that he'll be coming back, saying that this summer he'll be working on his spot-up jumpers, making himself more fit for the triangle. It would be nice for him to go back to the Sonics though; he could even lead them back to the playoffs if they get him and a solid big man.
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Postby Jackal on Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:25 am

Homer wrote:what is your opinion about that ?


Keep the Kobe talk in the Kobe thread, just quote from this thread if needed and post in that thread asking about opinions, I would rather have people pay a bit more attention to the rest of the Lakers instead of discuss Kobe's future. There are other players on the team.

Not offending anyone, just don't want this to turn out to a "Yes, Kobe will stay" / "No, Kobe won't say" / "I don't know what Kobe will do" / *sigh* "I wish Kobe would stay".

This is for the other guys on that Laker team. :wink:
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Postby bboyk10 on Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:25 pm

i don't think payton wants to play for more different teams. Even though he left the sonics, he's their franchise player. No doubt about it. I don't think he was much happy when he got traded to the bucks even though the bucks had his old coach, Geroge Karl. I'm sure he loved to play as a sonic.
And then there is that free agent signing last year. He signed up for the lakers in the hope of adding an olny missing piece to his brilliant career: a championship ring. So here are my predicitons.

1. If the lakers win this year, payton will either leave the lakers and sign up with the sonics or he'll stay with the lakers, having a mutual agreement with jackson on their offense.(I think the lattter one is more probable)
2. If the lakers don't win this year, hell i'm sure he'll leave the lakers, cause that's the main reason why he came here. He'll look for another team who can maximize his talents and get him a championship ring:namely, indiana pacers or some other western conference teams which i don't know of.

Go gary payton and Karl malone, u came a long way in this leauge. GOD, please don't let that same thing happen again which happened with barkley and stockton and ewing. :(
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Postby magius on Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:51 pm

at least pat and stock werent bandwagon jumpers. real stars win championships with what they get. Same with Phil Jackson, he's a good coach, but i'll never consider him the greatest considering he just jumped on to to teams that had massive talent already. I have respect for players like the admiral and hakeem who stuck with their teams until they won. Guys who just jump on to other teams for an easier ride are cowards to me. so what you didnt win a championship? so what if youre about to retire? If you werent good enough to win it, tough, smell the roses. Their are more important things anyway.

Paytons career is tarnished because of this season, and malone will always be the guy who cant make big plays or hit big shots. Both are great players, dont get me wrong, but they arent on my higher echelon.
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Postby Stevan on Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:45 pm

LOL it's not like Phil Jackson jumped onto teams that were already on a run. He helped get them over the hump. Both Chicago and LA were considered somewhat difficult situations when PJ signed on: Good teams with major problems in "getting over the hump". He did what other coaches couldn't do in his situation. And he didn't just "jump" onto those teams, he was chosen to coach them, though by the time he got the Lakers job he had enough credibility to make some choices.

Paytons career is tarnished because of this season, and malone will always be the guy who cant make big plays or hit big shots. Both are great players, dont get me wrong, but they arent on my higher echelon.

Both couldn't quite get that championship but neither could many others. I'm sure they'll be disappointed about not being in your 'higher echelon' :lol:
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Postby magius on Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:04 pm

:D i know, i feel for them.

Yeah, PJ really had it hard. I dont know if idve wanted to coach shaq and kobe or mj and pip if it were me. anyway, I didnt say he was a bad coach, I just said I wouldnt consider him the greatest. same with gary and karl, I didnt say they were bad, they're just not among the greatest for me. hey, its okay if you think they are, it was just my opinion, i'm sure they'll be pissing their pants and singing hallelujah out their arses now that you're behind them :lol: :wink:
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Postby magius on Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:16 pm

"You don't put your finger in a fan's face. That's unacceptable. Lakers don't do that," Johnson said of Malone, who claimed the heckler spat on him. "I don't care what he said. He has been to two Finals. I've been to nine. Do you think the Celtics fans didn't say things I didn't like?


:applaud: you get paid 5 million a year and your supposedly being underpaid. You should be begging the fans to heckle you.

Unless its magics spit and it hits you directly in the mouth while your yawning you're alright you big baby :D heck, how do we know shaq wasnt standing over him and he just mistook the diesels sweat for raindrops.
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Postby MVP on Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:12 pm

In all honesty, win or lose I think Payton will leave the Lakers at the end of the season. He does not look happy in LA. A player of his caliber should NOT be sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter. The triangle offense does not work for him. Payton needs the ball for him to be the player he is capable of being. All he is doing right now is bringing the ball up court and passing it to either Shaq or Kobe. Payton likes to run pick and rolls and go into the post himself. This situation must be killing him inside. His facial expression says it all.
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Postby Fresh8 on Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:52 pm

Bring back Bryon Russel...as Shaq says- and I second him!


Shaq makes push for Russell
Veteran has played little in Finals


Auburn Hills, Mich. - Los Angeles Lakers center Shaquille O'Neal would like to see more of little-used forward Bryon Russell when the Lakers take on the Detroit Pistons in Game 4 of the National Basketball Association Finals here Sunday night.

O'Neal made his plea after the Lakers were thumped by Detroit in Game 3 to fall behind in the series, 2-1.

"I would personally like to see a guy like Bryon Russell," O'Neal said. "He's been in the league nine years. Great shooter, pretty good defensive player, has been to the Finals twice.

"I don't have an understanding of why he's not in the game. We have a lot of veterans on this team. I would like to see them in the lineup against a tough aggressive defense like this."

Russell, who was teammates with Karl Malone in Utah, is best remembered as the player Michael Jordan pushed out of the way before going up for his game- and series-winning shot against the Jazz in the 1998 Finals.

Russell's only appearance in this series came in Game 3 when he played the final 1 minute 3 seconds. He has played a total of nine minutes in the Lakers' 20 playoff games.

When asked about Russell, coach Phil Jackson said that there were players ahead of him in the rotation.

"We're going to try to find players that are effective," he said. "I hope I find a way that Bryon Russell can be effective in this series. I hope that all my players have an opportunity to do well. I've always coached that way and think it's important.

"But there's a pecking order in how we come out, and there are still other players that I'd like to see have opportunities. Rick Fox has not had an opportunity in this year's Finals to make an impact on the game, and he has the ability to do that. There are other players, too, that I am considering."


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/buck/jun04/236154.asp
(Find it there)

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And Payton...I wanbt him to leave or at least sign and trade him...even though we won't get much in return.... he should play for Seatlle even though he might not be welcomed again...

And Karl should go back to Utah and sit on the bench and finish his career there!
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Postby Stevan on Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:59 pm

Yeah, PJ really had it hard. I dont know if idve wanted to coach shaq and kobe or mj and pip if it were me. anyway, I didnt say he was a bad coach, I just said I wouldnt consider him the greatest. same with gary and karl, I didnt say they were bad, they're just not among the greatest for me. hey, its okay if you think they are, it was just my opinion, i'm sure they'll be pissing their pants and singing hallelujah out their arses now that you're behind them


Well then Pat Reilty can't be one of the best because he had Magic and Worthy and Abdula and Coop and Byron and company. And then he "jumped" into other good situations with great players - Ewing and then Mourning and Tim Bug. There was absolutely no pressure in taking jobs with franchises who had good players but couldn't win championships. It was simply easy! :lol:
I just don't think Phil Jackson had it as easy as many people think. Some thought he was doomed by taking the Bulls job in 89 or whenever it was. Whether he's the greatest or not who cares, but recognition is deserved.

LOL. I hate Karl Malone, but he's probably the best PF ever even though he's a chocker. I also don't care for GP (I hated his ass in 96) and I'm not sure where he stands, but he never quite got into that elite group in my opinion. I'm not backing these guys but giving credit where it's due.

(y)
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Postby Jeffx on Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:12 am

Pat Riley is one of the best. He took over franchises that were stuck in mediocrity and made them winners. Despite having only ONE great player, Riley's Knicks were playoff contenders and almost won the title. Riley was able to adapt to each team he coached. The Showtime Lakers played a much-different style than the Knicks or Heat.
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Postby magius on Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:09 am

i think he was trying to get a point across, he wasnt saying pat wasnt great :D Okay, youre right, give respect where its due, i wasnt not giving it, i said they were good, i just said not the greatest. phil jackson is a good coach, but not the greatest. as in THE greatest (i probably give that distinction to red). thats what i meant with phil. as for choke-alone and payton......i wouldnt consider malone the greatest pf, but he's certainly in my top 50 all time players, payton didnt really accomplish anything, so he wouldnt be.

p.s. why are you disprecting jordan by putting malones face next to his on your avatar as if they were even close to the same level? :D shame! shame!
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Postby Stevan on Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:49 pm

p.s. why are you disprecting jordan by putting malones face next to his on your avatar as if they were even close to the same level? :D shame! shame!


LOL, you're right, that's why MJ's face takes more of the picture... he's overshadowing Malone :D (Seriously, that picture was what I used for my 96-97 patch for Live 01. MJ and Malone were the main men that season, though MJ should have won MVP :))...

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Postby Riot on Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:56 pm

that looks awesome.

I don't see Gary returning. He has really hated it in the triangle and coming this close and losing after enduring all of that. He might asume the same fate might lay ahead next year.
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Postby Andrew on Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:40 pm

I think the Mailman will call it quits. This season looked like it would be his reward for years of coming close but never winning a title, but it wasn't to be. If his knee is going to continue to hamper him, he probably won't want to struggle through another 82 game season, even though he can rehab the injury this offseason.

I'm also guessing that Payton will leave, even though he's suggested he will return whether or not the Lakers win. I'm inclined to believe that he will opt out though, and I couldn't blame him for doing so. He made a large sacrifice in terms of his salary and his role, and he won't have a ring to show for it. I wouldn't be surprised to see him move elsewhere (perhaps return to Seattle) so that he can finish his career on a more positive note, individually speaking.

He may sacrifice another shot a ring by leaving, but I think this Finals series has proven that there's no such thing as a guaranteed championship.

Shaq can't be happy with the outcome of the Finals (obviously), but probably moreso than the rest of the Lakers. He already feels that Kobe's desire to be The Man hurts the team and certainly takes away from his game, and his lack of touches in critical moments (the last two minutes of Game 4, the early stages of the second half of Game 5) provide him with a pretty good case. The only way he's leaving is via trade, and I don't anticipate the Lakers will do that.

Which brings us to Kobe. He wasn't at his best during the Finals, he's a free agent and Shaq probably wouldn't be too upset to see the back of him. Staying in LA won't necessarily guarantee another run of titles and will inevitably lead to more clashes with Shaq and possibly Phil Jackson.

At the same time, it's difficult to imagine Kobe moving elsewhere when the Lakers will no doubt remain perennial title contenders as long as he is paired with Shaq and Jax is at the helm. Right now, I couldn't make a decision, but whatever he decides it won't be surprising. I'm sure he knows being a Laker should keep him in the thick of the title hunt for the near future, but at the same time he knows that he has a great opportunity to prove himself the way other great players have; as the undisputed leader and main man on a championship team, something he cannot achieve as long as he and Shaq remain a tandem.

Even if this offseason leaves the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe, would that really be such a bad thing? Shaq + Kobe + Role Players has equalled three titles. Perhaps that's what they should have done this year instead of loading up on Hall of Famers. It may not have made a difference, but it remains a tried and true formula.
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Postby Fresh8 on Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:02 pm

Well- maybe the Lakers should let Payton/Malone go and also whoever wants to leave and try and sign a few decent players who can step up during crunch time. And players who don't have egos.

Wondering if Rick will retire. And will D FIsh leave and join...the bobcats?

Maybe it would be interesting for a Shaq-Kobe one more time cause if Kobe doesn't leave, Shaq will the season after next.
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Postby Fresh8 on Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:10 pm

About Jax:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakerside16jun16,1,4491293.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba

Listening to Jackson, It Seems Like Farewell

Phil Jackson did not break the record of nine NBA coaching championships he shares with the Boston Celtic patriarch and said Tuesday night that there was only a slim chance that he would be back to coach the Lakers next season.

His postgame news conference seemed like a farewell — Jackson was joined on the podium by his four grown children, his two daughters' eyes rimmed in red as he took questions from reporters — but Jackson wouldn't go quite that far.

"They would love to have me say this is it, this is the last," Jackson said of his children, "but I'm not giving you guys that satisfaction right here now."

His girlfriend, Jeanie Buss, in a radio interview last week put the chances for Jackson's return at 95%, but Jackson sounded a lot less optimistic.

"My timetable is to meet with the management of the Lakers after the season, discuss some things that we have to discuss as an organization," he said. "And then we'll make a decision from there.

"But right now I would say that it's a pretty slim chance that I'll be back coaching next year. It's a pretty slim chance. I've had a lot of persuasion given to me by these kids; they were hoping I would win the 10th and retire. But maybe losing this one, this opportunity is enough for me to say that it's time to give it up.

"But right now, I'm not going to make that decision or give that statement."

Jackson's first three seasons with the Lakers ended with championship parades, his fifth with a trip to the NBA Finals. But four months ago the Lakers broke off contract negotiations with the coach who also won six titles with Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls.

His five-year contract is up.

If the Phil Jackson era in Los Angeles has ended, it staggered to its conclusion, the injury-riddled Lakers having been overpowered by the Detroit Pistons, 100-87, in Game 5 of the championship series at the Palace of Auburn Hills.

Laker owner Jerry Buss, entourage in tow, declined to answer questions as he beat a hasty retreat out of the building before the fourth quarter.

"Not tonight," he said.

And so the Lakers' future — and Jackson's — remained murky.

"This summer is going to be a different summer for a lot of people," Shaquille O'Neal said. "Everyone is going to take care of their own business and everyone is going to do what's best for them, including me."

Kobe Bryant, whose differences with Jackson have been well documented, said he "loved playing for Phil," but also reiterated that he would opt out of his contract.

"I learned so much from playing for Phil and playing with Shaquille too," he said. "I think we got a lot of great things accomplished despite our differences that we've had in the past. We've played extremely well together.

"We've had an incredible run."

Is it over?

"Now it's decision time for this team and what direction they are going to move," Jackson said, sounding very much as if he believed the Lakers were in his past. "Obviously, it's going to be a big statement that's going to be made in July. And [General Manager] Mitch Kupchak has done a very good job. They will make a move in August to rebuild this basketball club. I think they will be fine."

They? Not We?

"Well," he said, smiling, "that's yet to be determined, OK?"
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Postby Andrew on Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:52 pm

It's difficult to know what to make of that. It obviously sounds like he's leaving, but with Jax you never know. He didn't rule out pursuing an extension either. As with Kobe's future, it really seems 50-50 to me.
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Postby Riot on Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:53 pm

Shaq-Stays
Kobe-Stays
Karl-Stays
Payton-Stays
Phil-Stays
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Postby Arcane on Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:57 pm

Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time.

Kobe: Don't drop the soap.

Lauren Jackson could make Wilt Chamerlain look like Eric Montross

^^^^ LUV IT :lol: :lol:

i dont think kobe will play for lakers next season either he'll be in jail or will let his ego take him to another team to try and win championship and that alluded MVP that shaq has takin from him. plus shaq and kobe cant stands eachother no more
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