Bird: NBA 'a black man's game'

[Amphatoast]

Should be a interesting topic

KNIGHTSTOWN, Ind. -- Larry Bird says he wants to see more white superstars in the NBA, but the legendary former Celtic has also revealed that nothing in basketball bothered him more than being guarded by another white player.

Bird made the comments during an ESPN special that will air Thursday at 7 p.m. ET featuring Bird's longtime rival, Magic Johnson, and rookies LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony. The one-hour discussion is called "Two on Two."

ESPN host Jim Gray asked Bird whether the NBA lacks enough white superstars.

"Well, I think so," said Bird, the Indiana Pacers' president of basketball operations. "You know, when I played, you had me and Kevin (McHale) and some others throughout the league. I think it's good for a fan base because, as we all know, the majority of the fans are white America. And if you just had a couple of white guys in there, you might get them a little excited. But it is a black man's game, and it will be forever. I mean, the greatest athletes in the world are African-American."

Johnson, a Lakers part owner, quickly added: "We need some more LBs -- Larry Birds. ... Larry Bird, you see, can go into any neighborhood. When you say 'Larry Bird,' black people know who he is, Hispanics, whites, and they give him the respect."

Cleveland's James and Denver's Anthony, both 19, were also asked about race during the sitdown, which took place in the tiny gym used as Hickory High's homecourt in the movie "Hoosiers."

Asked by Gray if race is an issue in the NBA, James said: "I don't think so. I think the fans look at the game, (they're) not looking at the race. (They're) looking who can play basketball. Or who's athletic. ... When you (were) a kid and you used to go outside, it didn't matter who was the best player in the league. If Bird was my favorite player, I'm out shooting threes. ... If Magic was my (favorite) player, I'm out there throwing my best passes. It's not the race issue. If you can play the game of basketball, you know fans are gonna love you."

Said Anthony: "Race is not an issue. Where I'm from, people love the Yao Mings, the Dirks, the Pejas. They love them guys. I don't think race is an issue right now."

Yet later in the discussion, Bird described being guarded by another white in his prime as "disrespect."

"The one thing that always bothered me when I played in the NBA was I really got irritated when they put a white guy on me," Bird said. "I still don't understand why. A white guy would come out (and) I would always ask him: 'What, do you have a problem with your coach? Did you coach do this to you?' And he'd go, 'No,' and I'd say, 'Come on, you got a white guy coming out here to guard me; you got no chance.' ... For some reason, that always bothered me when I was playing against a white guy.

"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me -- red, yellow, black," Bird added. "I just didn't want a white guy guarding me. Because it's disrespect to my game."

Said Magic: "His game, you see, Larry Bird was the only (white) guy that was mentioned in the barbershop. ...'Cause that's where all the talking in our communitity is, the barbershop or on the playground."

Bird has declined to comment further, according to a Pacers spokesman, and NBA commissioner David Stern said he would reserve comment until seeing the entire interview.

heres the link for you source lovers


Some pretty strong words from one of the greatest white NBA players ever. I don't want to sound racist, but I kind of think its true and partly due to African Americans history. They worked hard back in the days of slavery which made them probably more fit physically than their owners.
They passed stories down to their young ones on how hard it was for them hoping it insiprie their children to work harder than the average person these days.

Also by popularity these are the top sports today in America..
1. NFL (mostly blacks)
2. NBA (mostly blacks
3. MLB (mostly whites)
4. Nascar (dunno, i think whites)
5. NHL (98% white!)

top 2 are mostly blacks..

maybe blacks are just better sprinters and jumpers which are 2 qualities that make a good NBA player?

[Mazzocchi]

hm...... thats interesting....

[.]

I agree with LeBron James, its not a racial thing. Fans look at players performances on the court, not their skincolor. Although it wouldnt hurt to add more white players in the league, I think as a white fan the league is in excellent hands. We are having more and more european players in the NBA every season, which adds more white to the leaugue.

I mean there are so many white players who are good:
Peja, Nash, Dirk, Kirilenko, Kidd (half), Bibby (half) and so on......

I do agree that black athletes are more athletic then white athletes are, which is why they are better basketball players in general because they can have the same talent as white players, but most of the times with better athletic skills which gives them the edge Imo.

[Steve04]

I think it's obvious certain races do better at certain sports than others. That's not to say other races can't succeed, but if you look at where everyone came from it's probably in thier genetics. Black people are from Africa and being out in a hot climate like that makes them better suited for sports like running, sprinting,etc. But you also notice white people seem to do better in winter sports. I'm no expert on this so I'm just posting my curious observations.

*Joke Time*
But everyone knows white people cant jump, why do you think they're always the better shooters?

[Full Surface]

Bird wants more white people in the NBA but he never liked white people guarding him? So if 100 new white guys came in during his time, wouldn't they be forced to cover him?

[matmat8]

But you also notice white people seem to do better in winter sports. I'm no expert on this so I'm just posting my curious observations.

Well one of the reasons is not everybody can afford going skiing, bobsleighing, snowboarding, curling ...but everybody can afford a ball so those sports like many others (who do nothing to promote for less wealthy people btw ) are just for a certain part of the people...[/quote]

[Jackal]

I think it's obvious certain races do better at certain sports than others. That's not to say other races can't succeed, but if you look at where everyone came from it's probably in thier genetics. Black people are from Africa and being out in a hot climate like that makes them better suited for sports like running, sprinting,etc. But you also notice white people seem to do better in winter sports. I'm no expert on this so I'm just posting my curious observations.

This is my theory too, my dad goes a step further by saying that's why the whites used the blacks for slavery, their endurance is just much much better.

But ofcourse, any player can be good if he wants to and has a bit of skill in him, look at Madsen for example.

It's also true white guys are better shooters...most of the kids coming into the league are just potential or athletecism, it might be a while before we see Tim Duncan, well...from what I've heard, Okafor is pretty much about fundamentals on defence...agh, we'll see what happens.

[-BHZMAFIA-]

my AAU coach always make jokes, if we shoot alot of 3's consecutive he would say "that's a european right there"

[Steve04]

Well one of the reasons is not everybody can afford going skiing, bobsleighing, snowboarding, curling ...but everybody can afford a ball so those sports like many others (who do nothing to promote for less wealthy people btw ) are just for a certain part of the people...

[/quote]

Well, there's also the fact that people of African descent, and people of european descents nose,nasal passages are different too. People of European descent generally have thinner noses, because when you live in that cold climate you can't be breathing in all that cold air. It's really cool, almost like a mini evolution. They also have thinner lips, I don't know what that has to do with anything, but like I said it's just my curious observations. Black people tend to have bigger noses and wider nostrils, in hot and humid weather it would be tougher to breathe and thus the wider nostrils to enable you to breathe better.

This is my theory too, my dad goes a step further by saying that's why the whites used the blacks for slavery, their endurance is just much much better.

This actually could be true. I heard that they tried using Native Americans but they didn't hold up as long and as well as Africans did.

[Gripni]

It's not racism. Black people in general are just more athletic than white people. Usually, black people can jump higher, are quicker, are faster, and have better endurance. That's just the way it is. White people can be more athletic, but most of the time that's not how it is. Maybe it's because black people had hotter climates to deal with in Africa which made endurance better. Maybe all the unathletic blacks were killed by slave owners because they were useless or just died because they couldn't take it. No one knows... well I don't. That doesn't mean white people can't be as good at basketball, though. A white jumpshooter with no ups is better than a black player with a 40" vertical but no J whatsoever. The NBA right now needs shooters more than ever, too.

I think European NBA players are better shooters in general because in Europe they practice harder. It's not because they are white. Tony Parker is black and he is a great European shooter. Even Tariq Abdul-Wahad is a shooter... well, his best weapon is his shooting.

[Steve04]

I wouldn't say they practice harder man, I'd say they practice different things. I think Europeans place more emphasis on shooting and team play than ball handling and the post game. Plus, those guys are playing professionally while they are still in their teens! And people get on these H.S. Players for wanting to play in the NBA..

[bchogan]

There's so many wrong conclusions here that I don't even know where to begin.
The question of why some sports are largely comprised of black athletes has nothing to do with the climate in Africa, or that black people's endurance is better because they were slaves, or that their nostrels are better suited for hot weather, or that being slaves made them more physically fit. These conclusions that you've come to are based on incorrect assumptions of biology and environment.
I do not profess to know for certain why black athlelets predominate leagues like the NBA and NFL, but I felt it was necessary to point out the flawed logic that heas been present here. I do believe that there is some genetics involved in this, although not quite the way many of you have stated here. In the case of the NBA, there has become an obvious tendancy towards taller players, so obviously genetics comes into play there. I can't say I know the facts of the ratio of height in different ethnic groups, but it might be that within the population of black Americans, there is a higher proportion of tall men (again, I don't know, I'm just proposing the possibility). Of course, as of the 2000 U.S. census, blacks only comprised 12.3% of the U.S. population, while whites comprised 75.1%. So even if blacks have a higher percentage of tall men, there are probably as many or more tall white men. Whether any of these men of "NBA height" (for lack of a better term) are able to play basketball on a professional level is another question.
Which brings me to what I believe is the true determining factor of why there are more black athletes in the NBA than any other race: environment. Blacks are still earn less money than whites, have a larger percentage of their population living in poverty, and are less likely to go on to higher education. Many young black men think that their only chance of becoming rich and successful is to become a professional athlete. And speaking of poverty, matmat8 did bring up a good point. You don't need much money to start playing and practicing basketball. There are thousands of basketball courts all over the country that are free to use. Plus, in inner-city areas, there's more likely to be a basketball court available than any other sports facility, like, say a swimming pool. So it's a matter of available resources. Whites tend to have more opportunities than blacks, so there is a wider variety of sports, recreation & careers for them to choose from, which reduces the number of white people that play basketball on a regular basis.
O.K., I've rambled on enough, and I know most of you won't bother reading this, so I'll wrap it up. Let me just clairify that the statements I made weren't meant to be racist in any way. I tried to stick with the facts, so I hope nobody misinterprets my comments.

[Jackal]

I don't think you should rule out the nostrill/endurance theory, given the fact it's quite possible/feesible. Till I see some research that this has no effect, I'll keep believing it, it's very very possible. What you said also makes sense, but I do believe what we had to say plays a tiny part in all of it, if you don't have the endurance, why would you play?

Anyways, I'm no expert, I wouldn't know, I'm just stating what I think.

[fgrep15]

Which brings me to what I believe is the true determining factor of why there are more black athletes in the NBA than any other race: environment. Blacks are still earn less money than whites, have a larger percentage of their population living in poverty, and are less likely to go on to higher education. Many young black men think that their only chance of becoming rich and successful is to become a professional athlete. And speaking of poverty, matmat8 did bring up a good point. You don't need much money to start playing and practicing basketball. There are thousands of basketball courts all over the country that are free to use. Plus, in inner-city areas, there's more likely to be a basketball court available than any other sports facility, like, say a swimming pool. So it's a matter of available resources. Whites tend to have more opportunities than blacks, so there is a wider variety of sports, recreation & careers for them to choose from, which reduces the number of white people that play basketball on a regular basis.

You see I kinda thought that's how it is, but like you said, 75% white, and 12% black, even if a lot of the black guys try to go to the NBA or make it in a proffesional sport, the small percent of the white guys that also play basketball as much or come from a poor family etc will still be the same as the amount of black guys because their are so many more white people.

I don't think you should rule out the nostrill/endurance theory, given the fact it's quite possible/feesible. Till I see some research that this has no effect, I'll keep believing it, it's very very possible. What you said also makes sense, but I do believe what we had to say plays a tiny part in all of it, if you don't have the endurance, why would you play?

Endurance is something you can work on with training, I don't think endurance is the determining factor in how good a basketball player you are. I'm black, and I know many many white people that have better endurance than me even though I play almost every major sport including doing track. Your nostrils being bigger isn't going to make you a better jumper, shooter, quicker, faster, I'd understand if we were talking about cross country or something.

It's also true white guys are better shooters...most of the kids coming into the league are just potential or athletecism, it might be a while before we see Tim Duncan, well...from what I've heard, Okafor is pretty much about fundamentals on defence...agh, we'll see what happens.

I don't know if white guys are neccesarily better shooters, but it's what they're most noticed for. Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Michael Redd, Wesley Person, Rip Hamilton, Glen Rice, Peeler, McKie, Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, Bibby, Cassell, Jim Jackson, Voshon, Steve Smith, Battier, Billups etc all good shooters that are black. The thing is more white players are associated to their shooting rather than other parts of their game, Ben Gordon can shoot well in college, but if you talk about him you don't talk about his shooting, but his atheleticism and quickness.

[allamerican08]

I cant try to explain why more blacks play in NBA then whites is scientific manner, like "bchogan " did, but i might have a slightly diffrent view.

I watched and played with many basketball players, white black, u name it. There are several conclusions i have made. Alot of black people who can jump much higher and quiker tend to use that as their only skill. But they are also quite selfish as well. There are strength and weekneses in every person. And i think that although blacks can jump and sprint quiker their team skills are very poor. But, to create a perfect basketball player one much have speed, leaping ability, and so on.
A very large % of good coaches in the world on basketball are white. They take the unfinished product of a blak man who can jump and run, and fibe then skill to play like a white man. Of cource white men shoot naturaly better then black because that what they practice, shooting, not dunking.
And u have a player like T-mac, who comping out of HS can only dunk, and Redd and Allen and Houston. Even MJ, all got their skill from the white man. Because alot of the time those who jump high practice dunks all day. That why i say that players like JKIDD, Steve Nash, John Stokton, Drik, Peja have more skill then T-mac, Kobe, Shaq, MJ in a way, because they can score and defent whith out much athletesism.
And by watching NBA more often now, i come with a conclusion that the reason the FG% has dropped and scoring has dropped is because more black athlete play. Because they want to take the ball and dunk it, to make the highligh film.
Back in earlier days there was team basketball. The ball moves faster in the air then by someone dribbling it. More pases were made higher scoring, higher FG%. Not that 24sec bull crap.
Just look at the best teams in the NBA and best players. All having a team game. Thats why so many black people find themseft out of job and are 6'7, because they drop their books for a basketball.

[alexboom]

I think it's obvious certain races do better at certain sports than others. That's not to say other races can't succeed, but if you look at where everyone came from it's probably in thier genetics. Black people are from Africa and being out in a hot climate like that makes them better suited for sports like running, sprinting,etc. But you also notice white people seem to do better in winter sports. I'm no expert on this so I'm just posting my curious observations.

This is my theory too, my dad goes a step further by saying that's why the whites used the blacks for slavery, their endurance is just much much better.

I think that both of you are partially wrong. The main reason why there are more black in NBA is certainly not genetic or due to original country but social. In a general way, there are more Black people in lower classes. So playing basketball is one of their most common leisures because it's accessible for everyone and basketball is one of the rare way to flee poverty. In the meantime, white people who usually belong to middle and upper classes can have different leisures and other way to succeed in life. I know this is in a way a cliché, there are a lot of white who live in poverty, and many blacks who are rich ... But then, why are there almost no Blacks in Nascar and NHL ? Because driving a car, and buying equipments for hockey are both very expensive. People from lower classes can't buy them.

I don't think that it explains everything, but according to me this is the best reason why there are so many Black people in basketball

[rUsTy]

you are also forgetting the fact there is literly no black water sport athletes

what ever makes blacks more athletic etc... also gives them a disadvantage in water so its obviously something to do with their mechnanics

i once heard blacks have an extra muscle in their upper leg / buttox area which gives them more quickness, speed and a higher leap while restricts their abilty to have a powerful kick when swimming, dunno how true it is i just thought i'd wack that in. It was described as a rubber band like muscle that uses its own strain to give a burst or explosion ie quick off the mark while running, or extra kick into their jump, but as kicking motion of swiming relies on force eitherside of the leg and not below the leg the spring motion of this muscle is useless and just disadvantages them. Like i said its proberbly just rubbish but it does kind of make sence

[Wall St. Peon]

*sigh*

The whole Bird comment is being blown out of proportion...he was asked a specific question, and he answered honestly...dunno why the media's getting on him like he's a racist because what he said wasn't racist; it was bringing out in the open the natural tendency of human beings to be racist.

As for the rest of this discussion, there's no real physiological differences between blacks and whites. The ones that are there are minor; it's just like one person is more likely to respond better to training (weight lifting, running, practice), and one person just has all of those things naturally.

The main difference is economic reasons. Here's an example: Jake Sullivan, former guard at my college, Iowa State. He could have made the NBA as a small shooting guard, as he is a great shooter (over 90% from the free throw line, around 35-40% downtown) just like Shammond Williams. However, he isn't even going to try to go to the NBA because he has his degree and over a 3.5 gpa here...he'll get a job just fine, and it'll be something he loves just as much. A football player (Shawn Moorehead, a LB) told me his major, and I was surprised: he's majoring in mechanical engineering. He's white. His exact words, because my surprise was visible: "I know I'm not going to be playing football all my life."

Many whites go to college and play sports to oget a free education, and then go on from there because while they would like to be pro athletes, they love something just as much; as people have said, basketball is a way out of the ghetto, and because of that, they focus more on that than on school. School isn't important, and playing basketball is: their only goal, if they go to college, is averaging the stats to make it to the pros.

I work with a former football player (black) at Culver's, a pseudo-fast food restaraunt. He's 43 years old, played football at Iowa State. Right now he works full time at a local factory and works nights at Culver's. Football didn't work out for him: he played four years, but never was even considered for the NFL. He didn't get his college degree, either - now look at him. One of his friends, who actually got him the job, is in a similar situation: he played basketball here, and now he works for the DOT and Culvers. He's 44 years old....and he still is working on his degree.

The goals and demographics are the difference, not the physical aspects of the actual being. Why do you think it's such a big deal when a black athlete goes back to college to get their degree? Name one white player who left early for the NBA, and then name one who went back to get his degree after he left.

PS: I know I'm falling into stereotype traps like everyone else. My apologies.

[fgrep15]

I cant try to explain why more blacks play in NBA then whites is scientific manner, like "bchogan " did, but i might have a slightly diffrent view.
..............................................

This was a little hard to read, but I understood it, and I'm not sure where you got that from.
I'm black and I'm known to everyone I play with as a good shooter, and learnt how to shoot myself.

I watched and played with many basketball players, white black, u name it. There are several conclusions i have made. Alot of black people who can jump much higher and quiker tend to use that as their only skill. But they are also quite selfish as well. There are strength and weekneses in every person. And i think that although blacks can jump and sprint quiker their team skills are very poor. But, to create a perfect basketball player one much have speed, leaping ability, and so on.

How does having superior atheletic ability make you selfish?

A very large % of good coaches in the world on basketball are white. They take the unfinished product of a blak man who can jump and run, and fibe then skill to play like a white man. Of cource white men shoot naturaly better then black because that what they practice, shooting, not dunking.

What a horrible way to say it, that the black guys practice dunking, and the white guys shooting, I wonder what Earl Boykins practiced when he was young, I know just as many white guys that practice their dunking more than I do, I don't even practive dunking
It's not that they practice dunking, its that when you have the physical gifts, and you can, beat everyone with your speed and quickness, and/or just jump over everyone and get your shot off, you're not as inclined to improve things that are so easy to you at a lower stage. When you get into the higher ranks you realize that everyone can jump as high and you need to polish the skill in order to be succesful.

And u have a player like T-mac, who comping out of HS can only dunk, and Redd and Allen and Houston. Even MJ, all got their skill from the white man. Because alot of the time those who jump high practice dunks all day.

I'm pretty sure Tmac could do more than just dunk when he game in the league.

That why i say that players like JKIDD, Steve Nash, John Stokton, Drik, Peja have more skill then T-mac, Kobe, Shaq, MJ in a way, because they can score and defent whith out much athletesism.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but J-Kidd is black, he's malada (mixed) actually, and so are Bibby and Doug Christie. Nash, Peja and Dirk are not good defenders, but Stockton was a good defender though for a guy with not over the top atheleticism, but so is Eddie Jones.

And by watching NBA more often now, i come with a conclusion that the reason the FG% has dropped and scoring has dropped is because more black athlete play. Because they want to take the ball and dunk it, to make the highligh film.

Yet Dwyane Wade was second in the league in FG%, Shaq, Mark Blount, Carlos Boozer, Yao Ming were the top guys in FG%, Michael Jordan when he first came to the league was shooting 50% + by just going to the basket.

Just look at the best teams in the NBA and best players. All having a team game. Thats why so many black people find themseft out of job and are 6'7, because they drop their books for a basketball.

Actually man of those players that don't make it in the NBA go to Europe or some other league and play.

[Steve04]

I'd just like to say that, in modern day america..EVERYONE is a mutt. Or atleast almost everyone, maybe not those recent immigrants.. Find me one person who is pure blooded of any race or nationality and I'll give you a million dollars.

[Gripni]

The whole Bird comment is being blown out of proportion...he was asked a specific question, and he answered honestly...dunno why the media's getting on him like he's a racist because what he said wasn't racist; it was bringing out in the open the natural tendency of human beings to be racist.

I think it's being blown out of proportion by people who say it's being blown out of proportion. I've taken in about 16 hours of media coverage on sports since his words became public. I've never heard the media say it was a racist statement, only that what he said is true. I have heard that the media was making too much of it plenty of times.

[quote="allamerican08]Alot of black people who can jump much higher and quiker tend to use that as their only skill. But they are also quite selfish as well.[/quote]Are you saying that black people are "quite selfish?"

Obviously basketball is a lot more popular with blacks than whites. That's social. But that's not why black people are naturally better athletes. Society has nothing to do with athleticism. Your speed and jumping can't be improved a lot. If you're born with a 6" vertical you will never be able to jump as high as someone with a 48" vertical. That's just how it works. Black people usually just are more athletic, and athleticism is the basic principle of sports, the reason why sports exist now, and something that is very important in sports today.

To suceed at sports you have to be born with some special talent. Your talent can come in the form of ups, lightning speed, great aim, or handles. You can improve yourself, but it's mostly about your genetic luck. Everyone in the NBA hit the genetic jackpot. Shawn Bradley is 7'6. Earl Boykins is one of the quickest people in the world. Steve Francis has hops. I bet you can't name one NBA player who was born without talent but is still a great basketball player through only their own hard work. Almost everyone is really tall, most can jump higher than average... I'm not saying they didn't work, but they have talent. Black people have the right natural talent for basketball in most cases.

I do agree that black people want to play basketball more than white people. But I don't think it's because black people don't have any oppourtunities for anything else. Ninety-five percent of people I know would take the chance to be a professional athlete. Actually, I only know three people who don't play basketball out of about 300 in my grade. Maybe that's just my culture. Two of those people I know would play sports but they don't really have any talent. I was actually very surprised to find out that only 12% of Americans are black and 75% are white. In my school there are about 40% white, 30% black, 20% hispanic and everyone else as the last 10% (an estimate. I don't know where that little pamphlet is anymore. But that's not important to you.)[/quote]

[Jay-Peso]

The media has seriously turned this into something bigger than it really is. They are trying to say it is racist when they asked him the exact question.

[Wall St. Peon]

On PTI and Around the Horn they talked about the racist comment....so the media is saying that it is a racist comment. I'm not blowing it out of proportion...it wasn't the smartest comment in the world, but it wasn't racist, either, especially considering the fact that the answer was to a specific question...

[paseo85]

i agree with bird to an a extend because all of us blacks cant play ball or run or sing and dance, but one thing i respect about bird is that hes honest and very direct type of guy.

[HowAreYao?]

Who cares what Larry Bird said? All he did was SAY what everybody already KNOWS.

He didn't say we needed LESS black stars, he just said it would be good for the game and for the league (financially) to have more white stars.

If you don't know that to be true, then you're an idiot.