the Great Debate: Kobe or T-Mac?

u damn straight mkool
to practically say that kobe has no room to improve is ridiculous

anywayz t-mac is too much of a sook anywayz
hes still letting his sore back get to him, man justp lay
kobe does when hes injured
if ya that good, a minor injury shouldnt really be much of a problem
anyway, kobe is better

anywayz t-mac is too much of a sook anywayz
hes still letting his sore back get to him, man justp lay
kobe does when hes injured
if ya that good, a minor injury shouldnt really be much of a problem
anyway,

I guess you've never had a sore back... there is no way that a sore back is a minor injury. A hand, elbow arm etc is minor because it doesnt affect the rest of your body but a back injury hinders your movement and makes everything you do hurt. I don't believe Kobe's ever played with an injured back. Also you state that if he's that good an injury shouldn't be that big a deal. Your ability to play basketball has nothing to do with your pain threshold or your ability to play with an injury.

ive actually had a bruised tailbone which isnt so comfortable either
but i played through it in a game of footy (afl, aussies no wot im talkin about)
so dont tell me i dont know wot its like to have a sore back

Well there's sore and painfull, I remember whne I used to play football and the coaches used to yell at people when they were hurt saying are you hurt or injured. In your case you were hurt in theirs they were probably injured.

guess you got a point there
i was just sayin that stuff about the injury coz its just annoying to see a guy have the same problem for the last 2 or 3 yrs i think and he still isnt over it, wot the hell is he doing with on his time off then??

tmac = can lead his team w/little help
kobe = nuthin w/o shaq

but overall i would hav to say AI 8)

kobe= better w/o shaq
t-mac= help ? this guy just scored 46

i'll go with t-mac, he's better

8)

So, you're saying that Kobe no longer has the potential to be really good? I believe that both of them still have the potential to improve even more.

Kobe does have the potential to improve. But you can't deny the fact that McGrady has MUCH more. I mean, how much had Kobe improved from last year? A few points, being less unselfish (although he sometimes still hogs the ball), and a few rebounds. McGrady? He's basically gone from a lower-ranked AllStar to the top player in the league in that same time.

Also, that thing about Kobe being able to lead a team, the losing streak they were in proved it. At that time, Orlando didn't have as great role players as LA, yet had a good record. LA without Shaq had an abysmal record. And the role Lakers would not magically turn into good followers when Shaq comes.

Kobe does have the potential to improve. But you can't deny the fact that McGrady has MUCH more.

How does that work. They are both around the same skill level and same age, yet McGrady has much more potential to improve? Wonder who your favourite player is?

So, you're saying that Kobe no longer has the potential to be really good? I believe that both of them still have the potential to improve even more.

Kobe does have the potential to improve. But you can't deny the fact that McGrady has MUCH more. I mean, how much had Kobe improved from last year? A few points, being less unselfish (although he sometimes still hogs the ball), and a few rebounds. McGrady? He's basically gone from a lower-ranked AllStar to the top player in the league in that same time.

Also, that thing about Kobe being able to lead a team, the losing streak they were in proved it. At that time, Orlando didn't have as great role players as LA, yet had a good record. LA without Shaq had an abysmal record. And the role Lakers would not magically turn into good followers when Shaq comes.

errrrrrrrr no
u talk about kobe cant leading a team........well he hasnt really been givin the chance ful time, t-mac on the other hand 35pnts 8rebs 5asts and they lost to the grizzlies
from all the highlights i saw i didnt see him pass the ball, he obviously did with the 5asts.
now the lakers showed how bad they are wen they started 3-9, but was it really kobes fault
in 2 of the wins he had a triple double, and in the other agaisnt warriors i believe, he had 45pnts!!
i mean come on, if thats what u have ot do be a leader then, i would say fuck bein the leader, he worked his ass off to try and get the lakers wins, there role players were just dumb and stupid, and still are at the moment
mcgradys just laker he has better teammates, shawn kemp(ex-all-star) mike miller(future star) darrel armstrong, pat garrity
kobe has....................................................ummmmmmmmmmmmm.........horry for the last 3mins..........and.......ahhhhhhhhh........maybe fisher................and uh, well fox occasionally

i rest my case

shawn kemp(ex-all-star)

That's right... ex-all-star, just like Vin Baker.

kobe has....................................................ummmmmmmmmmmmm.........horry for the last 3mins..........and.......ahhhhhhhhh........maybe fisher................and uh, well fox occasionally

i rest my case

Don't forget about that one guy...kinda big and dominating...

Last edited by Rens on Sun Dec 29, 2002 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

mike miller(future star)

Ummm no....

shawn kemp(ex-all-star)

That's right... ex-all-star, just like Vin Baker.

kobe has....................................................ummmmmmmmmmmmm.........horry for the last 3mins..........and.......ahhhhhhhhh........maybe fisher................and uh, well fox occasionally

i rest my case

Don't forget about that one guy...kinda big and dominating...

we were talkin about wen kobe has to lead the team himself

kemp is an ex-all star so he still does have productive games

mike miller(future star)

Ummm no....

Ummm yes...
16ppg 5.8rpg 2.8apg .357% from d-town
22yrs old
i'd say he has talent to be

and those numbers are better than any other role player on the lakers team

Ummm yes...
16ppg 5.8rpg 2.8apg .357% from d-town
22yrs old
i'd say he has talent to be

Well first of all he's the third option on his team behind Hill and Mcgrady. Most third options don't get the slightest bit of consideration for the all-star game unless you play for an elite team like the Mavs or the Kings with alot of depth. The Magic are neither an elite team nor do they have alot of depth. Furthermore, his present numbers are nowhere near all-star calliber. He's 42nd in scoring, 50th in 3pt% and not in the top 50 of anything else that you listed. Although I don't watch many Magic games I would assume that most of his offence comes from double teams on Tmac and Hill. Also if he is to stay in the East who's all-star spot is gonna take? On the present all-star ballot he's listed as a foward, so lets see which players are better than him there. There's Abdur-Rahim, Carter, Hill, Martin, Mcdyess, O'Neal, Robinson, Thomas and Walker. Those are just players that are deffinetly better than him, there are of course others that are debatable. So thats 9 fowards who are deffinetly better than him and a few more who are about even. In addition, his rebound numbers are inflated because no big men on the Magic rebound (Save Kemp).

and those numbers are better than any other role player on the lakers team

Last time I checked no Lakers role players were being considered for the all-star game.

Well first of all he's the third option on his team behind Hill and Mcgrady.

Shouldn't that mean that he produces very well in his limited chances. With TMac and Hill, you don't really need another scorer. But Miller takes his chances and has some great games. If he was the first or second option on a team he would be a superstar, but for now he has to sit in the shadow of McGrady and Hill.

He's 42nd in scoring, 50th in 3pt% and not in the top 50 of anything else that you listed.

Do you think this may have anything to do with him being the third option? 42nd in the league in scoring ins't bad for a third option!! He doesn't get the shots most people on that list do. He doesn't have a lot of shots to get his eye in, he has to take whatever TMac and Hill give him. This explains poor shooting.

Shouldn't that mean that he produces very well in his limited chances. With TMac and Hill, you don't really need another scorer. But Miller takes his chances and has some great games. If he was the first or second option on a team he would be a superstar, but for now he has to sit in the shadow of McGrady and Hill.

He wouldn't be a superstar on another team, I think most would agree on that. I won't argue that he's had some great games though. Ya he does produce well in his limited chances but all he really does is feed off of open looks from McGrady and Hill, this just proves that he's a good shooter.

Kobe Bryant will make T'MacDonalds Cryin'

Mike Miller is third option for a reason...it's not as if he shouldn't be....maybe he would be 2nd OR 1st(like on the Grizzlies or Nugets) on another team but not the Magic...if Doc Rivers saw knew that he could do more than he does now than he would tell T-Mac and Hill to give him the ball more....but that's not the case

Mike Miller is third option for a reason

And what is the reason??

if Doc Rivers saw knew that he could do more than he does now than he would tell T-Mac and Hill to give him the ball more

Yeah, Rivers will make TMac give up his shots to let Mike Miller become the first option. Damn, Tmac wouldn't give up any shots if he thought he might not be the best player on his team. His ego couldn't take that.

about this back injury thing...

i strained my lower back about 3 months ago. for a week i couldn't do much. you begin to appreciate how much your lower back does for you once you have this type of injury. heck- i couldn't even tie my own shoes without experiencing pain in the first week. ive been on rehab ever since and but i still don't feel entirely the same before the injury.

now imagine what tmac is going through. i'm not sure if my injury is as serious as his, but he doesn't have the luxury of rest like i do. give him credit for keeping surgery off and posting these great stats.

as for mike miller, the top picks from his draft class has been a pretty poor one IMO so far. outside of martin, it seems like most of the players drafted then are involved in trading rumors daily.

Hehe yeah right... Shaq wouldn't win games for the Lakers.. while I'm sure Pat Burke would for the Magic

Did you watch Magic vs. Knicks, they played without T-mac, and they won, that proved without T-mac, Magic still can win.
I said Lakers wouldn't easily win a game without Kobe, that happened last season, when Kobe got suspended, but not yet this season, and you know why.
From last night's game Kobe proved he is better than T-mac, he scored 21 of his 27 points during 4th quarter, and with 9rebounds and 8assists. Don't say that Shaq is the only one carry the team. Magic got Mike Miller, Grant Hill, they both are all stars, why don't you say Mike Miller and Grant Hill also carrry the team?

By the way, from last night's great comeback game, Lakers are really back.

who on the magic now or three years ago have ever won a MVP?
How about the lakers ?
Suddenly, It sounds like that fat MVP and three times finals MVP is nothing comparing to M. Miller, and an ankelless G. Hill.......

By the way, the lakers was not yet really back since that 30 point comeback.

mike miller(future star)

Ummm no....

Ummm yes...
16ppg 5.8rpg 2.8apg .357% from d-town
22yrs old
i'd say he has talent to be

and those numbers are better than any other role player on the lakers team

maybe a future star but not yet.


27.6ppg 12.2rpg 2.8apg FG.577%
1 MVP, 3 Final MVP, 50 greatest.

and for you, those numbers are nothing comparing to a role player such as M. Miller + ankelless/18g for last two seasons G. Hill.

By the way, who is the one gets the most double-team on the lakers ?
and who is on the magic ?

HHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

so ur sayin that shaq is a role player..........LOFL!!

okay then
shaq and kobe are a duo surrounded by role players
same goes for grant hill(wen healthy) and t-mac
y do u think wen i wasa comparing kobe and t-mac about leadership and help from role players i left out shaq and hill.
mike miller is a role player(second option wen hill is out)

and ur gonna tell me that his numbers arent better than any other laker role player???

2 faced sellout, so much for miles....

HHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

so ur sayin that shaq is a role player..........LOFL!!

okay then
shaq and kobe are a duo surrounded by role players
same goes for grant hill(wen healthy) and t-mac
y do u think wen i wasa comparing kobe and t-mac about leadership and help from role players i left out shaq and hill.
mike miller is a role player(second option wen hill is out)

and ur gonna tell me that his numbers arent better than any other laker role player???

yea. that's nice to compare the leadership while one of them is not even the real leader on the Team and lefe the real fat ass 3 times final MVP leader out of the equation. As for Hill, he only played 18 games for the last two years, and you left him out just like you left Shaq out.

BTW, your way of telling how good a leader would be is to show how bad his teammates had played. That's nice! With this nice way of analysis, MJ was definiently a better leader in his earlier age when no one excepet him has good number.