All-Underrated Team

[NovU]

Fuck. Why would you think I was kidding. Did you even read my posts? And where's your Justin Bieber signature?

[Sauru]

awesome benji lol

[Lamrock]

Dwight is likely affected by the contract drama, as he's having his worst season in the Stan Van Gundy era. His offense has really taken a hit this year. Meanwhile, Chandler has been extremely efficient and the Knicks' best player all season. He's also anchoring the sixth best defense in the league after they were notoriously bad on that end last season.

Would I trade Chandler for Howard in a heartbeat? Of course. At the top of his game, Howard is a better player than Chandler is now, is three years younger and is not injury prone like Chandler is. However, Tyson has been outplaying Dwight this season, and I think his phenomenal play has gone somewhat under the radar for how incredibly valuable he's been.

[airBerlin]

I'm talking about this season only. If Chandler is the best center this season, how does he not improve Orlando?

[NovU]

Again... Read my post on "How good is Chandler?"? and perhaps you know? Cuz I dunno y u dunno.

[airBerlin]

I read it, I just didn't reply to it because it's completely irrelevant. Plus that Chamberlain comparison is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

I don't understand why you keep dodging my question.

[NovU]

You don't understand why I am dumbfounded how you don't know it yourself? Chandler and Dwight are two different players. You can't swap each other and expect the same result because everything depends on the way the team is built.

I just didn't reply to it because it's completely irrelevant. Plus that Chamberlain comparison is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

Irrelevant how? What it's saying is that Chandler has been amazingly efficient last season, at a historical level, and becoming the only one in the league that's comparable to Wilt at least in some departments. It was an amazing thing he did. For that alone, there were some claims that he belonged to the elites, possibly one of league's top 10-30 players, in which were backed up by metrics, not my logic and certainly not yours either(lol). You seem to keep ignoring the significance and means of it. Now let's move on to this season where things get more interesting. Not only Chandler has been more efficient, but he has made made a noticeable improvement from last season, topping his previous historical achievement. In the meantime, Dwight has regressed in production and has been a significantly less of force. To show for it, Chandler has recorded 5.7 winshare(3rd in the league) while Dwight has 4.9. WS/48 also has Chandler on the winner side with .250 to Dwight's mere 1.87. Take a look at Chandler's ORTG which measures points produced per every 100 possessions. Not only it's the league best, it should be the history best. Chandler's DRTG also has been career best. This obviously suggests that he improved both in offense and defense this season.

The moral of the story is that Chandler is an unique player that excels in the field that most stars and players can't. There are tons of players who can shine with the ball in hands. But there are only a few that can off the ball and definitely none like Chandler.

Chandler has been overshadowed as spotlight followed Lin around. Without Chandler, the Knicks should be competing for a berth in the lottery as opposed to a spot in the playoffs.

[CheddahCheese]

You don't think the 2nd or 3rd best center in the NBA deserves superstar money? With the way he's been playing, he's proved to be worth every penny. He's playing his usual All-Defensive Team -caliber defense, while being one of the most efficient offensive players in the league. He doesn't take bad shots, doesn't turn the ball over much, gets a lot of boards on both ends, and shoots 71% from the field. I just can't believe he was snubbed from the ASG for Roy Hibbert.

2nd or 3rd best center? seriously? dwight howard, andrew bynum, marc gasol > tyson chandler.

the reason why he didn't get selected to the all-star team was because the team was selected before the knicks went on a winning streak. indiana was like the 3rd-4th seed at that time, & hibbert was playing best ball of his career.

oh, and please don't say chandler "shoots" 71% when almost all of his points are layups and dunks.

[shadowgrin]

oh, and please don't say chandler "shoots" 71% when almost all of his points are layups and dunks.

He's a center for Kobe's sake! What do you expect, Chandler shooting 3-pointers and 20 feet jumpers?
Those are what he shoots and he does it better than the rest of the league this season.

[NovU]

If some of you still didn't notice, many of us here don't fly by 'watch the game' theory or totally buy into the hypes that media and highlights build up on certain players and teams.

I don't blame you though as I also frustrated a lot of people(perhaps even now) in my early days here with my lack of intellectual and understanding for the game. But I think I came around as there were lots of debates and discussions here that I could learn from. Now I have totally different perspective and takes when it comes to watching and analyzing the game and players. As a hardcore basketball fan, it's become like a sort of hobby disecting players and metrics that follow. For me it was the next step that made me love the game even more. Doesn't mean that I am right or anything on this particular topic but at least I am letting some of you(particularly new comers) that there are other ways of measurement which actually makes a lot of sense and pays attention to details.

[shadowgrin]

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss the 'watch the game!' opinion.
'Watch the game!' is actually a good complement to stats. It gives you a clearer picture and adds more to the detail of those stats.
Dependence only on raw stats/metrics can be as stupid as dependence only on 'watching the games'.

[NovU]

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss the 'watch the game!' opinion.
'Watch the game!' is actually a good complement to stats. It gives you a clearer picture and adds more to the detail of those stats.

Amen to that.

Dependence only on raw stats/metrics can be as stupid as dependence only on 'watching the games'.

Very true. But in most cases with most fans, they'd be lucky if they can catch 2 or 3 games a week, thus heavily relying on media and highlights for their source. And ofc no way anyone could watch 82 games of each team and analyzing each individuals and situation, and to come up with a perfectly reliable summary is plain impossible. In the end, all experts and purists have to at least refer to the data that recorded everything and analyze from them.

And it'd be stupid to be saying one metric determines everything. Like PER has its flaws to be used as an ultimate measurement when comparing two players though John Hollinger might disagree. Same with WS and rest of other stats. How you interpret them however, provides a good debate imo. And more and more studies are being done to improve the experience anyways. For instance... It's been awhile but one fun blog post I found was this on Best Peak Regular-Season Players Since 1978 which is very similar to the one we had previously The Best Players In 3 Point Era. One of the list refers to players' 6 best seasons which also is similar to our 7 years span restriction.
1 Michael Jordan---------1987 1992, 23-28, 165.0
2 LeBron James----------2006 2011, 21-26 ,145.0
3 David Robinson---------1991 1996, 25-30, 141.6
4 Karl Malone-------------1993 1998, 29-34, 130.7
5 Kevin Garnett-----------2001 2006, 24-29, 126.8
6 Larry Bird---------------1983 1988, 26-31, 123.3
7 Charles Barkley--------1988 1993, 24-29, 120.3
8 Tim Duncan-------------2000 2005, 23-28, 118.0
9 Dirk Nowitzki-----------2003 2008, 24-29, 116.3
10 Kobe Bryant-----------2003 2008, 24-29, 113.3

[shadowgrin]

Very true. But in most cases with most fans, they'd be lucky if they can catch 2 or 3 games a week, thus heavily relying on media and highlights for their source. And ofc no way anyone could watch 82 games of each team and analyzing each individuals and situation, and to come up with a perfectly reliable summary is plain impossible.

There's also watching only preferred games in a team's schedule. Like how the Knicks games I will only bother to watch are against the Celtics and Bulls and maybe the Heat to see how Lin will fare against Rondo, the humble MVP, and hope that LeBron will guard Lin like he did against Rose at one point in the game (but knowing LeBron will guard Carmelo, it's a longshot).

[NovU]

That's the match up I can't wait to see. Melo as a team seems to thrive against James, with Melo having an advantage of 9 wins and 4 losses. But since Lin has been the focal point as an initiator, perhaps we might see Bron guarding Lin which also should be fun. I highly doubt it though as Chalmers is a capable defender himself. Overall can't wait to see how the Heat defense will react to Melo's iso and Lin's pick and roll.

[Mandich]

And where's your Justin Bieber signature?

I am no longer in love with him.

On topic, Chandler is having a great season, but he is not a player that could lead a team. Howard is. Sure he is the most consistent player in the Knicks, and deserves to be an All-star over Hibbert, but Chandler and Howard are in different positions with Howard being under pressure of being "the best big man in the NBA" every night and with all the trade rumors. Don't get ahead of yourself with your statements.

[Sauru]

i will just go ahead and say it, howard is not a player that will lead a team. if he is your best you will not win a ring. he is an amazing 2 guy and if he did get to play with kobe they would tear shit up.

[benji]

I don't see how the Lakers could get both Dwight AND LeBron.

[Mandich]

Sauru I wasn't neceserally refering to leading a team to a championship. I too don't see him as that kind of player which is another sad reminder of the center talent base today.

[Andrew]

I don't see how the Lakers could get both Dwight AND LeBron.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7kd2ct9

Not pictured: the massive head injuries suffered by Otis Smith and Pat Riley leading to them agreeing to the deal.

[Sauru]

its easy benji, lebron fails to win a ring again due to shit 4th quarter performances and demands a trade blaming it all on bosh and wade. the heat agree cause screw lebron. suddenly howard looks to LA as the holy land and signs for league min so they will have money left to sign a point. see its all worked out, wheels are in motion. nothing can stop it now

[CheddahCheese]

He's a center for Kobe's sake! What do you expect, Chandler shooting 3-pointers and 20 feet jumpers?
Those are what he shoots and he does it better than the rest of the league this season.

For a center like Chandler, stating his FG% is 71 is probably a better way to say it than "he SHOOTS 71%".

[_Steve_]

He's a center for Kobe's sake! What do you expect, Chandler shooting 3-pointers and 20 feet jumpers?
Those are what he shoots and he does it better than the rest of the league this season.

For a center like Chandler, stating his FG% is 71 is probably a better way to say it than "he SHOOTS 71%".

Both is correct, so what?

[shadowgrin]

He's a center for Kobe's sake! What do you expect, Chandler shooting 3-pointers and 20 feet jumpers?
Those are what he shoots and he does it better than the rest of the league this season.

For a center like Chandler, stating his FG% is 71 is probably a better way to say it than "he SHOOTS 71%".

Semantics? Seriously?



Ok, I'll bite since I'm feeling retarded and I can participate clearly in such retardation...

Per Wiki:

A slam dunk is a type of basketball shot that is performed when a player jumps in the air and manually powers the ball downward through the basket with one or both hands over the rim. This is considered a normal field goal attempt; if successful it is worth two points. The term "slam dunk" was coined by Los Angeles Lakers announcer Chick Hearn. Prior to that, it was known as a dunk shot.

A layup in basketball is a two-point shot attempt made by leaping from below, laying the ball up near the basket, and using one hand to bounce it off the backboard and into the basket. The motion and one-handed reach distinguish it from a jump shot. The layup is considered the most basic shot in basketball.

[Lamrock]

Chandler shoots 74%! (with a field goal percentage of around 70%)

[Cleveland wins]

I don't know if anyone has meantioned this, too lazy to read the entire thread but, Monta Ellis actually is underrated. Especially when it comes to the allstar team selections.

But here's my underrated team

Pg-Aaron Brooks
Sg-Ronnie Brewer
Sf-Dorell Wright
Pf-Ryan Anderson
C-Marcin Gortat

Ronnie Brewer hardly ever gets mentioned in any highlights and he's a very good defender.