The Beast vs. The Worm

by **EGarrett** on Sun May 23, 2004 9:55 pm

Here's a question I've been pondering for a bit.

Who's the better player, Dennis Rodman in his prime or Ben Wallace now?

Both men are two time Defensive Player of the Year. Both have lead the league in rebounding multiple years in a row. (Wallace 2, Rodman something like 7 or 8)...and both can't score for anything.

Rodman excelled at one-on-one defense, able to slow both Shaq and Michael Jordan at different times in his career. Wallace excels at off-the-ball defense. Wallace has lead the league in blocks and averaged a great number of steals, but Rodman was a master at drawing charges and setting picks. Wallace intimidates with his shot-blocking, Rodman intimidated with his expert gamesmanship and ability to provoke opponents into attacking him and getting themselves ejected. Rodman was known for his crazy-colored hair, Wallace for his crazy-sized afro.

The first vote, cast by me, will be for Rodman. Wallace might be more visibile at this point in time, but Rodman was just so knowledgeable. Wallace controls the paint on defense, but Rodman could guard just about anyone one-on-one when you needed it. Rodman didn't try to prove he was a scorer at inopportune times as well (see: Wallace trying to post up with the game tied and 1:30 remaining in yesterday's playoff game). Rodman was also the better rebounder.

I'm sure additional facts/statistics will be mentioned...so who's better?

by **The Big Racist** on Sun May 23, 2004 10:25 pm

Rodman was better for sure,like EG mentioned Rodman was able to actually slow down big names like Shaq and Malone thanks to his one-on-one defense,Wallace is a terrible one-on-one defender,I remember back in 2001-02 season,76ers played the Pistons and Mutombo easily over played Wallace.Also Rodman knew that he's on the team for his defense not for his offense,Wallace has been scoring more this year than usually but he has enough offensive weapons on his team.

by **GloveGuy** on Mon May 24, 2004 12:33 am

I'd definitely have to go with Rodman. Though Wallace might have the advantage in All NBA Teams, that only shows the lack of centers in the league.

Throughout his career, Rodman has guarded players from Michael Jordan to Shaquille O'Neal, and is often looked at as the best to do so. While Big Ben does well in helping out for blocks, Rodman is great at forcing misses, keeping players such as Karl Malone and Shaq to low percentages.

When it comes to rebounding, there's no question that Rodman has the advantage. He was arguably the SMARTEST rebounder of all time; he could probably tell you Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen's shooting routines, and even the routines of the best shooters in the league during his day. He would study tapes, seeing where balls would usually go on misses.

Overall, I respect how both players don't need to do shit on offense, yet can change the face of the game, but I'm gonna have to go with Rodman on this one.

by **point-guard** on Mon May 24, 2004 12:37 am

miss those diving from rodman..he is the only guy..who dives the ball..for the game..every superstar now loves themself..they wont get themself injured..or wont go for impossible balls..but rodman was different...he dives

by **Dramacydal** on Mon May 24, 2004 12:43 am

number14 wrote:every superstar now loves themself..they wont get themself injured..or wont go for impossible balls..

not true, for example AI (i think hes considered as a superstar...) jumps after every loose ball.

anyway, i think Rodman was better.

by **hmm** on Mon May 24, 2004 2:46 am

by **point-guard** on Mon May 24, 2004 4:37 am

improving offensive talent..by abit...he still sux in shooting..imo...rodman sucks in shooting too..but well..he can grab so damn many rebounds...and btw...how times does rodman does it..and AI does it?btw..rodman dives for really impossible shots..he can make himself crash into the freaking crowd...and in the video homer posted..he saved the ball and ran up till the spectators far on top..would AI do that?

by **Dramacydal** on Mon May 24, 2004 4:42 am

AI injured his shoulder this season just because he wanted to get a damn loose ball, jumped after it and crahsed into the announcers table (or whatever the long table on the courtside is called)

by **point-guard** on Mon May 24, 2004 4:30 pm

true enough but...thats what rodman does everytime

salute to rodman

by **Fresh8** on Mon May 24, 2004 4:36 pm

Any player who can provoke the other player to attack them first is a champ!

by **Alex Italo** on Tue May 25, 2004 4:07 am

Rodman, no doubt!

I remember the 96 finals when he simply drove Frank Brickowski nuts, by teasing, drawing fouls and stuff.
There was a moment in one of the games, when they were side by side in a free throw, when Rodman just was staring at Brickowski's face, smiling in a funny way, and Brickowski was red as a ruby, trying to avoid eye contact.

Besides all the teasing part, Rodman was a better one-on-one defender than Wallace, and he was just amazing as a rebounder. One thing I noticed about Wallace is that his offensive rebounds are mostly from his own misses... which is not a good thing to brag about...

by **EGarrett** on Tue May 25, 2004 4:23 am

Alex Italo wrote:Rodman, no doubt!

I remember the 96 finals when he simply drove Frank Brickowski nuts, by teasing, drawing fouls and stuff.
There was a moment in one of the games, when they were side by side in a free throw, when Rodman just was staring at Brickowski's face, smiling in a funny way, and Brickowski was red as a ruby, trying to avoid eye contact.

He did this to Alonzo Mourning too. I have some old tapes and one of those is a few games in the Bulls/Heat series from I think 97. Mourning was already completely flustered, and they lined up next to each other for a free throw. While Mourning and everyone else along the key leaned over and put their hands on their knees...Rodman stood STRAIGHT up with his hands on his hips and faced Mourning, staring down at him. It was hilarious.

Mourning was subbed out a short time later...and the camera followed him to the bench, where he sat down, looked at Rodman and yelled "You are sick. Your a sick motherf**ker." The audio didn't pick it up but his lips read clear as day.

He would do the same type of things to Karl Malone also.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Tue May 25, 2004 12:52 pm

I'd have to say Rodman. Everyone else who's voted for Rodman has pretty much summed it up with the same reasons I have for picking him, so I can't really add anything else at this time.

by **Carmo** on Tue May 25, 2004 4:32 pm

Ben Wallace because I like him better!

by **FanOfAll** on Tue May 25, 2004 5:18 pm

I voted for Big Ben. Mostly because he's not a locker room trouble maker and believe it or not that matters. Team chemistry is probably the most important aspect to professional basketball. Big Ben is a leader...if you take their on court skills, it's a push IMO. Rodman is the superior man up defender and rebounder (just a bit), but Wallace is easily, hands down the better the weak side helper. The reason I feel it's a push is that Big Ben is a very, very good man to man defender...and this aspect of his game gets overlooked with all his weak side help. Rodman, on the other hand, gives little weakside help.

Actually I forgot about offense. Big Ben is developing a jump shot and almost averaged a double double this year...so maybe on the court and excluding off the court issues, I would still take Big Ben.

by **Jackal** on Tue May 25, 2004 8:31 pm

Mostly because he's not a locker room trouble maker and believe it or not that matters.

Thanks to Phil Jackson, Rodman wasn't a nuicance in the Bulls' locker room. Jackson made one thing clear to Rodman, he didn't give a damn what he did off the court, wether it was wearing a wedding dress or coloring his hair for the gazillionth time. Jackson made it clear to him that on the court, it was serious and that he needed to do whatever needed for them to win. This is one of the big reasons Rodmans stay in Chicago was such a success compared to the times he was with teams such as the Pistons and the Spurs. The staff members of those teams tried to reform Rodman, they tried to prevent him from his crazy antics on and off the court. Jackson, however, let him go his own way, he just put a limit to his antics on the court, off the court, Rodman could do whatever he pleased as long as it didnt cost the team anything.

Oh, I pick Rodman for the reasons mentioned above. (Y)

by **Bang** on Tue May 25, 2004 10:55 pm

I think Rodman was also better at psyching out people. Remember his encounters with Mourning? How he annoyed him with little things? Rodman was the master at that. Ben Wallace hasn't improved his offense too much. 9.5 ppg this year, 6.5 ppg last year. I actually expected him to score in double digits this year, but I guess I was wrong. So far the worm is better because he played better defense overall and was great at annoying/distracting/humiliating people.

by **Matt** on Tue May 25, 2004 11:06 pm

Rodman

But when it comes to a defensive stop Ben is most likely to get it as he has a chance of stepping any of 5 players where Rodman is more restricted to 1

by **Micchy_boy** on Tue May 25, 2004 11:57 pm

count me in for RODMAN. they already said the reason why Rodman was better than Ben. plus i may say that rodman was a decent offensive player in his early days in detroit. then became a very good role player and defensive player. plus he has 5 rings (am i right abt 5 rings)

by **bboyk10** on Wed May 26, 2004 2:44 pm

same here
gotta go for rodman

there were WAY TOO MANY GREAT DEFENDERS WHEN RODMAN RECEIVED THE DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD

today, the only player who plays defense( by the meaning of defense in the late 80's and early 90's) is exactly like what chuckster had said on TNT

by **hmm** on Thu May 27, 2004 1:25 am

which is ....... ?

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Thu May 27, 2004 4:51 pm

Micchy_boy wrote:plus he has 5 rings (am i right abt 5 rings)

That's right - two with the Pistons (89, 90) and three with the Bulls (96-98).

by **FanOfAll** on Fri May 28, 2004 10:05 am

Psycho Jackal wrote:
Mostly because he's not a locker room trouble maker and believe it or not that matters.

Thanks to Phil Jackson, Rodman wasn't a nuicance in the Bulls' locker room. Jackson made one thing clear to Rodman, he didn't give a damn what he did off the court, wether it was wearing a wedding dress or coloring his hair for the gazillionth time. Jackson made it clear to him that on the court, it was serious and that he needed to do whatever needed for them to win. This is one of the big reasons Rodmans stay in Chicago was such a success compared to the times he was with teams such as the Pistons and the Spurs. The staff members of those teams tried to reform Rodman, they tried to prevent him from his crazy antics on and off the court. Jackson, however, let him go his own way, he just put a limit to his antics on the court, off the court, Rodman could do whatever he pleased as long as it didnt cost the team anything.

Oh, I pick Rodman for the reasons mentioned above.

Rodman's stay at Chicago was evidently an aberration. Could anyone else do it? In fact, could Phil do it for a 2nd time? Not really.

Big Ben is the heart and soul of the Piston team. While Rodman could be considered a keystone player, Big Ben is both the keystone and the dominant player (in biological terms). The best argument for Rodman is his rings.

by **Jackal** on Fri May 28, 2004 11:55 am

FanOfAll wrote:Rodman's stay at Chicago was evidently an aberration. Could anyone else do it? In fact, could Phil do it for a 2nd time? Not really.

Who cares? I think those few years were more than enough.

by **Jay-Peso** on Fri May 28, 2004 12:48 pm

I said Ben Wallace because how many people can really stop Shaq and get in his heads. I mean Rodman played a tough mental game as well as a physical game and that is what the game is about. You have to be mentally tough along as physically

Rodman is one of my all time favorite players because of his unique style of playing. So I voted for The Worm.

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