Dirk Nowitzki Bandwagon Thread

[benji]

It is a peak, most likely, due to his age. He turns 33 next month. He is definitely near his prime, and I think it's clear the window is closing on the Mavericks if they can't win it this year.

I'd argue Dirk's peak was 2005-2007 when he was the best offensive player in the league easily and likely the best overall player in the league. Duncan's peak was in 2003 and Spurs still won four years later. Garnett peak was in 2004 and he won four years later. There's no reason Dirk can't be have come down from his peak and still be more than good enough to be the best player on a title team. Especially when the later team is quite superior.

You completely changed your argument.

No, I didn't. I said this isn't the peak and that it's not the best Dirk has ever played. I don't see any obvious proof that it is because it requires it to have some clear tangible and supportable superiority over how well he played 2005-07.

Everyone would agree that empirically, Dirk has improved in terms of poise in the 4th Quarter, recognizing mismatches, buying into team defense concepts, and being more selective with the 3pt shot.

And if someone disagreed? What happens then?

Dirk is playing at the best that he has ever played

And again, he was arguably the best player in the world from 2005-2007 and at least the best offensive player. What's the case that he's better than LeBron and Dwight? Durant, Paul and Wade are all likely as good if not better as well.

What really proves it, is how dominant the Mavs have been.

Here's another area where we disagree. They haven't been very dominant in my opinion. No more so than Miami have been.

It seems as though they can just turn it on when they need to; something we might have said about the Lakers, but the Mavs have always been the underdog.

And it's just as stupid to say that about the Mavericks as it was to say it about the Lakers.

The Mavericks are a team full of shooters and bombers, of course they're going to streak when the shots are falling. They should have never been underdogs, that was just the bullshit narrative crap based on the fact that they and Dirk are "losers."

Here's some fun old threads regarding this discussion, and also benji's Kobe bit:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=72794

greatest thread in NLSC history

This is the best Dirk thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=56307

And that's hardly the best thread. Not even the best NBA Talk thread.

Check and... MATE.

[jonthefon]

Well, I blotted out memories of that series. I'm pretty sure it was just Chris Paul kicking the Mavs in the nuts over and over again, while Dirk leans against a wall feeling the need to intervene, but ultimately choosing not to.

And I enjoyed the Lebron v Kobe thing way too much, so that's like, my opinion man.

[hova-]

I think what makes Dirk look like he's on his peak is definitely that well running Mavs offense. They have so many assets on the floor at the same time & Dirk does rarely take more than 18 shots in a game. Those 18 are good looks (at least good looks for him) and he hits over .500% of these.

It's also a fact that under Rick Carisle Dirk is playing more of his own style. Avery Johnson kind of forbid Dirk to shoot threes and wanted him to attack the basket. Right now, Dirk's experience and good form help him to find the right mixture of drive, shoot & pass.

Maybe benji. can look up wether or not Dirk has gotten better in passing out of the double team and finding the open man. Watching the games, it looks like he really added that to his game like when he kicked it out to Terry or Peja vs the Lakers very often. Don't know if stats can back that up though.

[NovU]

The thread title itself is self explanatory.

Not to mention people keep forgetting to credit what Tyson Chandler brought to this team, who became an instant second best player who's been extremely efficient and tough. He brought things the Mavericks have been lacking. Solid presence inside which allowed Dirk more room to breathe.

[hova-]

Not to mention people keep forgetting to credit what Tyson Chandler brought to this team, who became an instant second best player who's been extremely efficient and tough. He brought things the Mavericks have been lacking. Solid presence inside which allowed Dirk more room to breathe.

Definitely. The Mavs are best in the West because they are playing as a team. They rarely have anyone taking more than 20 shots. They have everything a good basketball TEAM needs.

Tyson Chandler / Brendan Haywood : Two big men who can play very solid defense. Chandler is better against the athletic/quicker big guys 1on1 whilst Haywood is the better help defender.

Shawn Marion: Has been praised for his D lately but I also like his role on offense. He is still athletic enough to make those easy baskets on the break & around the rim. When he has a mismatch he can go at it in the post which is helpful. He can't create his own shot on a solid defender, but when he's open he is pretty good.

Jason Kidd: Plays such a big role in this run. Actually you should name him right behind Dirk. On offense - he's great at making plays, we all know that. His assist/to ratio has been great vs OKC. He also hits that open three. But his defense - man, excellent. Such quick hands, gets the ball almost every time he is slapping for it. Guys said, he will be the problem on defense because he's too slow. How about him guarding KD instead of Westbrook and dominating defensively?

Jason Terry: Most underrated SG in the game if you ask me. Sure, he's too small and at times a liability on defense (although I don't agree with that 100%), he's such a good scorer and shooter. His stroke is phenomenal this postseason: 31-67 from beyond the arc and 49-55 from the free throw line. He can get to the rim at times, too, where he has a soft hand and a reliable floater. He's not a star (whatever a star is), but he gets the job done and is a starting SG type of player.

If you combine that with shooters like Peja and JJ Barea who's playing out of his mind and the solid defense that is coming from guys like Stevenson and Brewer (who doesn't play at all) and you have a solid 9-10 guys rotation which simply gets it done offensively and defensively.

Nowitzki is getting too much praise just like Kobe and LeBron get all the time, because basketball is a team sport and one guy will never win it alone. It has to do with the fact that he's the offensively most skilled player on the team who gets the ball when it counts and has so far delivered.

[The X]

I'm a bandwagoner, I've liked him since the Mavs drafted him. I tend to bandwagon a lot of white players. I can relate to their lack of athleticism and lower middle class upbringing. Dirk doesn't fall into those categories, but let's forget that for now.

[Abctest123]

I guess Benji being the stats guy can answer this one. Is it true that where Dirk is getting his points from is any different compared to 2006? I've been reading from others one noticeable difference is how much more developed his post and midrange work is compared to 2006. Can you shed any light on this?

[shadowgrin]

It's also a fact that under Rick Carisle Dirk is playing more of his own style. Avery Johnson kind of forbid Dirk to shoot threes and wanted him to attack the basket. Right now, Dirk's experience and good form help him to find the right mixture of drive, shoot & pass.

Best thing that Dirk learned if you ask me.

[benji]

I guess Benji being the stats guy can answer this one. Is it true that where Dirk is getting his points from is any different compared to 2006? I've been reading from others one noticeable difference is how much more developed his post and midrange work is compared to 2006. Can you shed any light on this?

There's nothing in the numbers except for one thing.

He's assisted far more today than he was before. And it's like I noted regarding when Nash left, along with Avery, his role changed. Once Kidd came in, and the team got better players around him, it changed where he's getting the ball and how. He's keeping the same locations but now he's getting the ball on a pass instead of getting there off the dribble. It's part of why his assists have fallen, the offense doesn't run through him for absolutely everything anymore, it goes to him to create but there's ball movement outside of Dirk. Neither Howard nor Harris nor Stackhouse nor Daniels were spot-up or motion guys like they have now.

He actually scored in the paint as a larger share of his scoring and shots in 2005-07, again basically because he had to along with what's noted above about Avery Johnson's wishes. When Carlisle comes in he starts taking more mid-range jumpers again but by this year it's right back to the same distribution as it was in 2007 except for around the rim.

[Axel]

It is a peak, most likely, due to his age. He turns 33 next month. He is definitely near his prime, and I think it's clear the window is closing on the Mavericks if they can't win it this year.

I'd argue Dirk's peak was 2005-2007 when he was the best offensive player in the league easily and likely the best overall player in the league. Duncan's peak was in 2003 and Spurs still won four years later. Garnett peak was in 2004 and he won four years later. There's no reason Dirk can't be have come down from his peak and still be more than good enough to be the best player on a title team. Especially when the later team is quite superior.

You completely changed your argument.

In case you forgot what was going on between 2005 and 2007...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRikrksH8es

[Killer Crossover aka OG]

Anyway, here's the bandwagon:

Sorry but this is not bandwagon, this looks more a GayPic