Should there be a age restriction in the NBA?

[allamerican08]

I read there were a few of there threads but its getting closer to draft day and I would like to know your opion?
I was watching "Pardon the Interaption" and Doug Collins was on it and he made a valid point. The HS kids these days are costing coaches their jobs! GM drafts and trades for all the young and "potential" players who don't have a winning experiance at a high level. And in most cases get theri game from the playground. How many time have you been on the playground and heard some guy screeming "oh! I can take on Iverson or Kobe anyday!"
That is what happening here. Iverson brough in the so called "street game" and now all there young kids seem to think that is they play streetball they'll do fine in NBA. Little do they realize that Iverson played collage and that helped him more then anything.

Furthermore you get a team such as Bulls, Cavs, NYK, Magic, who have a team of "potential" superstars. The coach is then expected to take it, develope these players and get into playoffs?!!
What a load of crap! And most of the time the team never gets to the playoffs but the players do get more or less developed. So the coach get fired and sudenly the new coach is a saviour because he trasformed this team into a winning combination! How is that fair?
Ther should be a age limit, or like Colling said insted of giving all of 1st round a guranteed 3 years give the bottom 10, one year and the middle 10 2 years and only top10 will get the 3 years.
Why shoudl some HS kid who just happens to be bigger and stronger then everyone els get a benifit of a doupt then Uconn or Cyricus 2-4 year player who won a Natiolal Tittle?
It is only thatks to players like Kobe and others that those kids can get in.
Ever if u take all those HS players before and put them in collage what u get in the end is a ready to play player. Del Harris didn't have to loose his job coz Kobe and the Lakers weren't making it! U get my point!

[VCFAN]

I don't think their should be an age limit in the NBA. If you look from past experience their have not been a whole lot of players who came into the NBA straight from high school. If you look at the ones that did, almost all of them have became superstars. The best players in the game today are highschool players. Look at T-Mac, Kobe, Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'neal, Amare Stoudemire, and Lebron James. This seems like a really high percentage of players becoming superstars after they enter the league. The NBA has a brain just like anyone else when deciding wheter to draft a player.

Plus they just dont choose kids who say I can beat Jordan or Iverson. The scouts actually watch their game before they make a decsion. Usually when a player comes from high school that player is distinct and seperate in skill level from the rest. They must be otherwise they would not get noticed.

Just a good high school player will not make the NBA unlike college where goog players make the NBA. They have to be unbelievable.

[alexboom]

I am a pro age limit : look at a player like Jermaine O'Neal. He waisted 4 years on Portland bench before exploding in Indiana. He could have spent 3 of those 4 years in college, he would have been even better as in NCAA he would have get playing time ! Same with Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett, there first years in the NBA were good but not that excellent, indeed, only LeBron and Amare really made it in the NBA in their rookie years. I don't think they've learned more in joining the NBA instead of going to college.
In the NCAA they could learn the basis of the game, and the game is less strong than in NBA, so they don't risk an injury as they do in NBA ...

I would have liked that players like Bryant and Garnett would have entered the NBA and immediately averaged 25 PPG, like Jordan did ...

[Jackal]

Well, I agree with Alexboom, but in a way he didn't absolutely waste the four years. (O'Neal) In his eyes, he made alot more money in those four years then any other kid who was attending college.

[Andrew]

Even though I see the advantages of an age restriction, ultimately it's the team's fault for placing their hopes in potential that may not be realised. If picking a high school player is too big a risk, then the answer is simple: don't pick him. Resist the temptation to take what might be the next KG, Kobe or T-Mac, or on the other hand the next Desagana Diop or Leon Smith.

If there's less chance of players being taken out of high school unless they're really something special, they're likely going to stay in school. It is within the power of a team's front office to avoid taking high school players with lottery picks.

[guillus2670]

All about money for all of them

[alexboom]

You're right Andrew, but I think some teams destroyed some players's potential by picking them too early then benching them. Leon Smith and Desagana Diop would have benefited A LOT from learning the basis of the game in College.

[PRoPuLsiOnDJ]

Same with Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett, there first years in the NBA were good but not that excellent, indeed, only LeBron and Amare really made it in the NBA in their rookie years.

Bryant and Garnett werent starters in their rookie years.
I dont know about Garnett, but Bryant averaged 15.5 ppg off the bench his second year ... and 20 ppg his third year .... and he just blossomed after that. And Garnett flourished in the same way throughout the years. That to me is POTENTIAL!

I think there shouldnt be an age limit ... its not about whether its ethical or not ... its about the talents the player has. If the players have great talent and "potential", then they should be allowed to play. And we cant just assume that Kobe or KG would have been better players today if they attended college. They never went to college so we would never know how they would turn out. The NBA is also a learning institution ... players learn the hard way to succeed.

And yes we're going to have players like Leon Smith and Diop ... but there are college bums in the NBA too! Pervis Ellison (1st overall pick in the draft circa 1986) .... nobody even knows this guy. Joe Smith, Stromile Swift, Marcus Fizer, blah blah blah ... You can make the same case for college guys too. These guys got drafted high and they went to college ... and yet, they havent reached their potential and they will probably never reach it. (P.S. dont forget Eddie Griffin too)

So drafting a kid out of high school is just as big a risk as drafting a kid from college. Everything is a risk in the NBA draft ...especially if u have one of the top picks ... you dont know how these players are going to turn out. It's up to the players and their will to work hard.

[magius]

for me being a starter isnt a matter of starting a game, but a matter of how many minutes you play. i think there should be an age limit and because what if one day a 14 year old is drafted turns out to be a bust and has no means to go anywhere afterward?

if stern implements a minor league system wherein they could sign players at a younger age and let them flourish there while still getting an education and exploration of other options then my problem might be nullified.

[PRoPuLsiOnDJ]

I agree ... there should be an age limit ... but if a player finishes high school then he should be allowed to play in the nba. But now that i think about it, there should be an age limit becuz a 14 year old would be screwed if he turns out to be a bust.

I dont think 20 or 21 should be the age limit ... i think 17 should be the age limit ... or if a player graduates from high school (sometimes ppl are 16 when they graduate high school).

[Andrew]

for me being a starter isnt a matter of starting a game, but a matter of how many minutes you play. i think there should be an age limit and because what if one day a 14 year old is drafted turns out to be a bust and has no means to go anywhere afterward?

I'm guessing you're exaggerating, but there is actually a rule in place regarding high school players, stating that their class must have graduated for them to be eligible (or something along those lines). That's a rule that should definitely be kept in place.

You're right Andrew, but I think some teams destroyed some players's potential by picking them too early then benching them. Leon Smith and Desagana Diop would have benefited A LOT from learning the basis of the game in College.

Agreed, but ultimately the team is responsible for having selected a player deemed a project, and for giving him limited playing time. And again, if players were less likely to succeed in the NBA despite skipping the college ranks, they would probably think twice before doing so.

[air gordon]

i disagree there- if a high schooler thinks (or is being told by his agent) he will get picked in the 1st round, then he'll make the jump to get that guaranteed 3year contract.

and whoever is saying high school players that make the jump usually have a distinct skill from the rest, that's entirely false. it's size, potential, and their physical attributes.

You can make the same case for college guys too. These guys got drafted high and they went to college ... and yet, they havent reached their potential and they will probably never reach it

yes, college has had its fair share busts, but if you opened the gates and let a shitload of high school preps declare for the draft, you're going to get a shitload more of high school busts. there's a reason why for a long period that high school preps did not enter the draft

i would be for an age limit. yes, teams are responsible for making the picks, but in the big picture of things, it's making the league's talent pool worse.

people forget so easily about the high school busts

[alexboom]

You're right Andrew, but I think some teams destroyed some players's potential by picking them too early then benching them. Leon Smith and Desagana Diop would have benefited A LOT from learning the basis of the game in College.

And again, if players were less likely to succeed in the NBA despite skipping the college ranks, they would probably think twice before doing so.

Andrew, I don't agree as I don't think that a prospect who has to make up his mind whether he'll enter the NBA or go to NCAA has an objective point of view, between the lure of the dollars in NBA (while he won't be paid in NCAA), when everyone around him (journalists, fans, agent) say he's the next Michael Jordan, and also because most of prospects are simply too young to be wise enough ! There are too many ways for a prospect to be mistaken and be leaded to a wrong decision. An age limit would prevent them to take foolish decisions !

[magius]

I'm guessing you're exaggerating, but there is actually a rule in place regarding high school players, stating that their class must have graduated for them to be eligible (or something along those lines). That's a rule that should definitely be kept in place.

but if they kept that in place wouldnt it be the same thing as an age limit? i mean, lets face it, none of these guys are smart enough to graduate early, god forbid.

[Full Surface]

Some highschool players are way too overhyped.

Those 3-4 are just the same in college but spending them at the "Wizards University" or "Bulls University".

[Andrew]

but if they kept that in place wouldnt it be the same thing as an age limit? i mean, lets face it, none of these guys are smart enough to graduate early, god forbid.

It would be the same. For all intents and purposes, it is basically an age limit. The age limit that's generally thrown around is 20 though, which would bar most players from entering the draft after their freshman year.

i disagree there- if a high schooler thinks (or is being told by his agent) he will get picked in the 1st round, then he'll make the jump to get that guaranteed 3year contract.

Andrew, I don't agree as I don't think that a prospect who has to make up his mind whether he'll enter the NBA or go to NCAA has an objective point of view, between the lure of the dollars in NBA (while he won't be paid in NCAA), when everyone around him (journalists, fans, agent) say he's the next Michael Jordan, and also because most of prospects are simply too young to be wise enough !

I have to concede those points, but I still think fewer players would be advised to skip college if GMs were less infatuated with high school talent. But you are right, some players would do it regardless.

Out of interest, what would be an appropriate age limit? As I mentioned before 20 is a number that is usually thrown around, but that would also affect players who want to enter the draft after their freshman year (in most cases). Would the age limit endeavour to keep players in college for four years, or would it simply be in place to cut down on the high schoolers?

[allamerican08]

its not really about the talent or what they will do if they become a bust.
People choose their own path to success.
What i mean is, all these HS players are costing coaches their jobs and inconsistant teams! Look at the Bulls. It no secret that they have a few very talented players. Yet the team hasnt been succsesful, the coach get fired! Same will happen with the new coach until one time the player gro up and become good players. sudenly the NEW coach is the hero!

Not only that. If u look at the way NBA is carefuly you will see that the highest picks get previledge of the min played. Look at the situation in Mia, Wade, a rookie is getting starts whie Alston, seasoned Vet gets bench. And Alston is better righ now then Wade. If u get all the Hs player out of Draft u will have better NBA. The teams chage so much that its getting scary. How r u expected to play with a team who doesnt know ur best spots or the team plays? and just when they are learning they get split!
I know the big part of the problem is the Salery Cap space. But why should I pay tickets for a player who os learning the basic of plays!
In HS u can just get the ball and do what ever with it. In Collage u learn the team concept. Thats y all the Hs player need 4 years to develope!

[Wall St. Peon]

The comment about Alston and Wade is wrong...Alston better than Wade? Alston has handles and a passing game, plus a more consistant three point shot...but Wade is an all-around scorer and a playmaker! Oh, and Wade spent...three years at Marquette, I believe. Maybe four, but I think he left early to support his baby...

Anyway, on to the topic...

I think a system like that of the NFL should be implemented. Two years of college experience required is a good way to keep the immature, greedy players (like Maurice Clarett) out of the league until they've grown up a little bit. While players like the high schoolers mentioned are exceptional, a clause should be made for accepting appeals; that is, if a high school player is at the talent level of LeBron and the maturity of LeBron, they can appeal to the NBA and work out for all the teams, and then all of the teams can say whether or not he would be a first round pick. This would cut down on the early entries significantly, and this already happens, to a point, but right now, if one team shows interest and tells some 18 year old he's a first round pick, that kid is going to jump because of pressure from friends, family, prospective agents, and so on, to make the jump for monetary reasons.

Also, I think a restructuring of rookie contracts would be a great idea. Top ten picks 3 years, 11-20 2 year, and 21-30 1 year, and then leave the second round at non-garunteed contracts. If you aren't garunteed a 3 year stay in the league, kids aren't going to gamble so much.

I think all of the above should be implemented...and I also think the NCAA should overhaul their rules. NCAA players should get some sort of stipend for being in the NCAA tourney from the NCAA, especially since the schools and the NCAA make absurd amounts of money from the tourneys. Each round they advance to, they get a a larger stipened until the final game. This would be a little more incentive to stay in school, and also it wouldn't make the NCAA seem like such a ripoff to be a member of. Also, if a player hires an agent if they think they'll enter the draft, and then they decide they want to go back to school because they don't think they'll get a garunteed contract, then the NCAA should allow them to fire the agent and return to school. The NCAA needs a serious overhaul in regards to rules, and if they do that, then more players will go to college as opposed to trying to jump straight to the NBA.

[Andrew]

I think a system like that of the NFL should be implemented. Two years of college experience required is a good way to keep the immature, greedy players (like Maurice Clarett) out of the league until they've grown up a little bit. While players like the high schoolers mentioned are exceptional, a clause should be made for accepting appeals; that is, if a high school player is at the talent level of LeBron and the maturity of LeBron, they can appeal to the NBA and work out for all the teams, and then all of the teams can say whether or not he would be a first round pick.

I kind of like the idea, though I don't know how many high school players would be able to successfully appeal for an exception. With such a rule in place, the NBA would be probably of the mindset that pretty much everyone will be attending college for the required two years.

I'm certainly in favour of a restructing of rookie contracts. As you noted, the larger risk would provide less incentive for high school players who aren't necessarily The Next Big Thing but have enough potential to be picked in the first round.

I would like to see changes that would give players more incentive to spend at least a year in college rather than a rule that makes it impossible to be drafted out of high school. Still, a wave of high school busts over the next few years would probably make me change my tune.

Out of interest, would the rule apply to undrafted rookies and foreign players? After all, some European players start playing professional ball at a very young age. Would the age limit bar them from jumping to the NBA?

[Wall St. Peon]

Well, that's where the experience thing comes in; that is, I believe in the NFL, if a player leaes college early and goes to the Canadian Football League, then he can't enter training camps for the NFLuntil he's played the equivalent of two years, so that would take care of the foreign thing; remember, there is the 18 year old age limit in place right now. Most European players have something like four years of experience in Europe before they come over, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I don't think so many high school players would win appeals, either...and that's the point. It would keep players who don't have a chance of becoming anything from being tricked by an agent or by being given false hope by one team.

[Alex Italo]

Someone said that the best players today are guys that came directly from HS: Garnett, Bryant, McGrady, O'Neal and now James... I think this just have happened because they're exceptional.
It seems that are only two types of HS players: superstars or busts. No mid class level... so i'll get to my point...

A team is not made only of stars, but you'll need role players that do their job well. Role players most of the time are players that are hard workers and have good fundamentals... and this isn't exactly the type of player that jumps from HS... Why? No fundamentals... (young age, no team play, etc.) and not hard workers (sometimes greedy, overhyped and got used to play against kids).

I think you can't apply a rule that forbids HS players because that are players that deserve to be in the league (like mentioned above). However, limiting rookie contracts is a good choice (to prevent the greedy ones) and I would like to see a rule putting a limit on the number of young players in a roster... To prevent the General Managers drafting more kids than they can handle... The last one is odd, I admit but like Andrew said, most of the time the blame for HS busts are entirely of the front offices...

[alexboom]

today's best players come from high school simply because it's a general trend nowadays. Players such as Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan would have probably done the same if mentalities were different when they were young. For GMs, the potential now worths more than the current value of a prospect. An age restriction would prevail against this way of thinking as I don't think the NBA has to become a development league. The place of Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnett in their 1 first NBA year was in College

[alexboom]

I found an excellent article by Michael A. McCann* (Visiting Scholar/Researcher at Harvard Law School) called "The irrational economics of banning high school players from the NBA Draft". This article is against an age limit in NBA. The document is 86 pages long (:shock:), but if you can read and if you have some time, give it a try it's really worth the read as this guy really knows the game:

http://www.student.virginia.edu/~vase/IllegalDefenseMcCann.pdf

[VlaDiv]

I feel that there should not be an age bar. Well, unless 18 is the age bar, so you can sign your own adult contract. However, I feel no one should be drafted based on potential. High school and college players should be compared by what they can do RIGHT NOW, where their skills are now. The assumption shouldn't be given that HS guys will all be greats, but the ones that made it in the 90s did. Tmac, Kobe, J oneal, and garnett are among the top 10 players in the league on anyones list. All high school guys. Now this year, there are like 8 or 12 HS guys, that's a lot, but they should pick them based on skills they have NOW.

[alexboom]

mmh... how can you force GMs to select players on their immediate skills, and force them to completely ignore their potential?

If they'd do so, do you consider that Rashard Lewis, in his rookie season, could have been traded for Marlon Garnett, as they had similar stats in 98-99 season?