Melo to Nets deal dead

[shadowgrin]

I can almost foresee the team in Denver falling apart. Each player has strong characteristics/attitude and were proven that they were hard to coach.

What proof?
Them not following Adrian Dantley and sticking with George Karl's basketball 'philosophy'? The Nuggets sure had no trouble following George Karl and winning 50 games the past three seasons.
It's not like the Nuggets changed coaches in the middle of the season. Oh wait...

I'm not a big fan of ORating, DRating and winshares. They're too dependent on teammates.

Wrong about ORtg. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

ORtg: Offensive Rating = Individual points produced / individual possessions used. Along with %Poss, ORtg is vital to assessing a player's offensive productivity. Because it effectively combines TS%, OR%, AsR, and ToR into one metric, it is the ultimate measure of a player's offensive efficiency. That's not to say every player with a high ORtg is better than ones with lower ORtgs, though

Wrong.

[NovU]

I can almost foresee the team in Denver falling apart. Each player has strong characteristics/attitude and were proven that they were hard to coach.

What proof?
Them not following Adrian Dantley and sticking with George Karl's basketball 'philosophy'? The Nuggets sure had no trouble following George Karl and winning 50 games the past three seasons.
It's not like the Nuggets changed coaches in the middle of the season. Oh wait...

Imo, George Karl is a great coach and he's done a great job. Obviously Adrian wasn't.

So just put it this way, If they were easy to coach, they would have done a better last season.

[Spotlight]

I just don't understand those Melo haters. The guy is clearly the 2nd or 3rd best SF in the planet. He is just fantastic scorer and not a bad defensive player at all. Sure, he was bad in defense earlier in his career, but Anthony has shown good improvement in last couple of years. I remember his duel with Kobe Bryant in game 1 of Western Conference finals. It was so fun to watch, both guys competed so hard and scored so much. I would love to see him with the Knicks. He has talent to go down as one of the greatest offensive players ever.

[jonthefon]

I'm not a big fan of ORating, DRating and winshares. They're too dependent on teammates.

Wrong about ORtg. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

ORtg: Offensive Rating = Individual points produced / individual possessions used. Along with %Poss, ORtg is vital to assessing a player's offensive productivity. Because it effectively combines TS%, OR%, AsR, and ToR into one metric, it is the ultimate measure of a player's offensive efficiency. That's not to say every player with a high ORtg is better than ones with lower ORtgs, though

Wrong.[/quote]


Well, I feel brilliantly stupid now :p

Nevertheless, I firm on my position in believing in the limitations of advanced stats . I'd like it to be so, but it doesn't seem like advanced stats are completely practical in most sports. Unfortunately.

[shadowgrin]

Of course it has its limitations, like everything does. You're not supposed to view advanced stats as the be all end all of a player. You're supposed to view it in the context of other 'advanced' stats to make your own conclusion. Jae showed that in the previous page where he discussed the way Carmelo creates his own shots despite Melo being a chucker.

Most/all? teams use advanced stats. The advanced stats that's readily available to the public (via b-r, 82g, etc.) are only a small part of the 'known' advanced stats. Synergy data are one of those advanced stats that are not readily (free) available to the public. 82games also provides advanced stats (not shown on their website) to particular teams (iirc, the Mavs were one of their first clients).
Take a look at the hotspots/tendencies in 2K10 or Live 10, those data are advanced stats (though simplified to an extent for easy implementation in the game) provided by the above mentioned sources that NBA teams actually do/use to evaluate their own players or scout their opponents.
Even Larry Bird has his own formula for advanced stats in evaluating players.

[Doobie]

There are reports that the Knicks are offering a package of Randolph, Gallinari, Douglas and Curry for Carmelo. I wouldn't give up both Gallo and Randolph for Melo...

[Murat]

There are reports that the Knicks are offering a package of Randolph, Gallinari, Douglas and Curry for Carmelo. I wouldn't give up both Gallo and Randolph for Melo...

Melo for these 4 guys? I wouldn't do this move.

[shadowgrin]

If New York is stupid enough, Denver should do it if they want Gallinari and Randolph.

[Cartar]

There are reports that the Knicks are offering a package of Randolph, Gallinari, Douglas and Curry for Carmelo. I wouldn't give up both Gallo and Randolph for Melo...

Melo for these 4 guys? I wouldn't do this move.

Yeah, including Curry is just too much.

[Sauru]

i think they should just trade him to boston for west. screw the nba cap rules just do it

[J@3]

There are reports that the Knicks are offering a package of Randolph, Gallinari, Douglas and Curry for Carmelo. I wouldn't give up both Gallo and Randolph for Melo...

I don't know if I'd take that over the Nets deal. I think I would.

[Jackal]

i think they should just trade him to boston for west. screw the nba cap rules just do it

Carmelo is still young...

[NovU]

There are reports that the Knicks are offering a package of Randolph, Gallinari, Douglas and Curry for Carmelo. I wouldn't give up both Gallo and Randolph for Melo...

This is a must do for the Knicks as well. Bunch of replaceable bench players for Melo? No brainer. Quality over quantity. Depth comes naturally with quality.

[rise]

i think they should just trade him to boston for west. screw the nba cap rules just do it

Melo and Pierce would have to split minutes. Who would come off the bench?

There are reports that the Knicks are offering a package of Randolph, Gallinari, Douglas and Curry for Carmelo. I wouldn't give up both Gallo and Randolph for Melo...

This is a must do for the Knicks as well. Bunch of replaceable bench players for Melo? No brainer. Quality over quantity. Depth comes naturally with quality.

I like the Nets trade better. For Denver and for the Bobcats. Curry is shit. Randolph and Gallinari aren't going to win dozens of games for Denver. I see Favors and Kirilenko doing that partially similar to Carmelo although nobody is really going to replace Melo. I still want the Nets trade to happen cuz the Bobcats would get Devin Harris.

[Cartar]

i think they should just trade him to boston for west. screw the nba cap rules just do it

Melo and Pierce would have to split minutes. Who would come off the bench?

If it comes at the expense of winning Championship, does it matter who plays? Whoever matches up better with the opponent.

[NovU]

Jesus... sauru was just doing his usual crazy talk due to alzheimer. No need of taking it seriously, boys.

I like the Nets trade better. For Denver and for the Bobcats. Curry is shit. Randolph and Gallinari aren't going to win dozens of games for Denver. I see Favors and Kirilenko doing that partially similar to Carmelo although nobody is really going to replace Melo. I still want the Nets trade to happen cuz the Bobcats would get Devin Harris.

So do I. Favor is looking like a decent big man with good chances at making it big in this league I believe. On the other hand, Randolph's ceiling I don't think is that high. He'll be solid but not to an extent where you can pass on players like Melo.

[Andrew]

If the Nets trade falls through, I'd certainly be inclined to do that Knicks deal if I were the Nuggets. It doesn't much help the Jazz or Bobcats if it comes to that but it's not like the Nuggets have any obligation to do so.

[rise]

It doesn't much help the Jazz or Bobcats if it comes to that but it's not like the Nuggets have any obligation to do so.

[Sauru]

i think they should just trade him to boston for west. screw the nba cap rules just do it

Carmelo is still young...

good point. i hope he goes to the knicks signs a 5 year deal then signs on with the celts

[Murat]

Bobcats after this trade (if official):

C: K. Brown
PF: T. Thomas
SF: G. Wallace
SG: S. Jackson
PG: D. Harris

Just loving this team.

[shadowgrin]

You better create a Bobcats thread then to show your love.

[Andrew]

The four-team deal that would send Melo to New Jersey is apparently dead..."at least for now".

The four-team trade fell apart when Denver kept trying to include more of its players in deals to spare themselves a bigger luxury-tax bill that would’ve come with the arrivals of Kirilenko and Favors, sources said. The proposed trade would have added $4.5 million in salary to their payroll plus another $4.5 million in luxury tax.

Sources said the Nuggets had strong interest in trying to do a deal with Philadelphia that included swingman Andre Iguodala, but the Sixers’ inability to get a commitment out of Anthony that he would sign a contract extension with them made the point moot.

[Doobie]

I hope Carmelo stay's put this season and signs on with the Knicks next off-season... I'm willing to wait for that.

[rise]

CRAP. It's dead. Hopefully, the Bobcats can find a point guard. I really had my hopes up for this trade, because of Devin Harris.
Just though about this: if Utah had put in Al Jefferson instead of Kirilenko to Denver, this trade would be done by now.

[Doobie]

The trade is dead because Carmelo didn't want to sign the extension, not because the Nuggets didn't want AK47. AK47 is also a pretty big expiring contract, and giving up Al Jefferson would be one of the worst moves for the Jazz.