CHICAGO BULLS, KEEPERS AND KEEP-OUTERS

[reapershole]

With the end of the season coming and other off-season full of missed free agent signings, possible disappointing trade options, and a foreboding season (04-05) that will bring both Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler into free agency the Bulls have a lot to think about including, from my perspective, Paxson?s position as general manager.

Paxson came in following behind one of the luckiest general managers in history who just happened to, completely by chance if you ask me, put both Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen with Phil Jackson. All of it was this colossal mistake on the part of ole Jerry ? a colossal mistake that equaled out to six championships in eight years and him at first being regarded as a genius and later as Satan himself before being drummed out of the Chicago Bulls organization. From there the Bulls went with a long time friend and radio broadcaster, previous three-peat team member, and knock-out three-point-shooter for general manager. The move was considered smart and some went as far as to say genius, but others including myself wondered why Chicago did not hold out for a stronger name from their history like Johnny ?Red? Kerr or Norm Van Lier or even the king himself, Michael ?Air? Jordan.

Still the Bulls progressed with their decision and so did the franchise, if you want to call it that. In the hands of our good friend and beloved guard Paxson we saw one of the most lopsided trades in our team history, a trade that sent out our best power forward and our best guard for a very good defensive forward and that?s just about it. Many regard the trade as worse than the Indiana trade which brought in Jalen Rose and lost us both Miller and Artest. Still others consider it worse than the trade that brought us the draft rights to Chandler for all-star forward Elton Brand. Either way, Paxson?s trade ranks high in NBA trade bloopers and, in Chicago Bulls recent history, it most definitely ranks in the top five.

Yes, the Bulls have been without doubt in severe injury trouble throughout the season. With Tyson out most of the season, Scottie?s presence more of an often-injured joke than anything else, and Eddy Curry?s lack-luster beginnings many might say the team is virtually destroyed and it is time for gutting. The question is, are we all looking in the wrong direction?

My answer is yes and to follow I will list how I would restructure the Chicago Bulls from the head offices down. My first move would be to fire the general manage sighting his inability to achieve any of his underlined goals. If the New York Knicks can rebuild with a team that sported Houston and Van Horn as their premier players within the season then the Bulls should at least be doing better than the Cleveland Cavaliers. Now we hire someone into the general manager spot who has guts, maxi, that general swagger to his moves that he not only has a plan but the intelligence and ability to set the plan into action. My men for the job would be as follows; Kareem Abdul-Jabber, Norm Van Lier, Chuck Daily, and Doug Collins. I name these particular people as they all are excellent sports analysts when they have had anything to say at all, they are all defensively minded yet understand the necessities of offense, and they are all, in their own rights, extremely experienced.

From here we need to underline the players we keep and the players we don?t worry about and package in any trade anywhere. Our keepers are as follows?

Eddy Curry
Jerome Williams
Kirk Hinrich
And possibly Tyson Chandler? possibly.

The first three players on this list are either already where they need to be or well on their way and their position in the team should not be questioned at any time so they can have a season to not only be comfortable with their spot but know it is theirs. Eddy Curry didn?t bring it this year until around the trade dead-line, but why? I submit that he was nervous and unsure of his status with the team. He is a home town hero true enough, but he is searching for his game and as he finds it Chicago needs to be there doing anything they can to hold onto him. Centers don?t come your way every day and they already missed the train with Brad Miller, they do not need to start repeating their mistakes. Everyone else is trade silage including our new lead-scorer and sign-and-trade fodder leader, Jamal Crawford. Although I love Jamal, his style of scoring is too off-balanced and erratic for a young team trying to build on the basics. Hinrich has also won the point guard stop and with shooting guards getting taller and taller, Crawford will find himself without a chance in a defensive Chicago team.

Our goals should including bringing a Chicago native home as they did in New York. It will set the stage for a player that wants to play for the Bulls and for what is not his city and not just a city he comes home to a few games a year. There are a variety of Chicago and area natives out there who can be primary scorers and luckily enough a large portion of them are shoots and small forwards. I saw lets go get em and bring em home. We have too many power forwards as well and the ranks need to be thinned out. This team is a few trades away from something work cheering for. I want to put my bulls hat on and not get laughed at any more. I want to silence those that look at me with distain and say, ?pretty rough without his airness isn?t it??

It is time to shake things up, if New York and Denver can rebuild off of virtually nothing then the front offices of Chicago need a shake-down and a shake-up.

Just as the Bulls commercial goes, ?everything can change in a blink of an eye? here comes a change.?

(Andrew Grimm, 2004
reaper@reapershole.net)

[Andrew]

Eddy Curry raises the question: "Which is worse: waiting on a player to develop only to have him never reach his potential, or trading away a player only to watch him become an All-Star?"

As slowly as his progress has been, I think the Bulls should keep the Jermaine O'Neal/Portland situation in mind, and keep Curry at least another couple of years. As long as he remains motivated, confident and continues to utilise his strengths, he can still become one of the best centres in the league.

Kirk Hinrich's numbers have improved as he's been given more minutes and the starting job. There's no question that he should stick around for a while.

Jerome Williams is an upgrade over Fizer (who should be moved), so as long as he's producing, there's no need to send him packing.

The only thing that troubles me about Tyson Chandler is his health. If his back is going to keep him from playing most of the season or reaching his potential, then investing in him is like investing in Grant Hill (only Chandler doesn't have six impressive years in the league, pre-injuries). If this isn't likely to be a problem beyond this year, Chicago should hold on to Chandler a little longer.

I'm still not sure about Crawford. On one hand he's inconsistent, but at the same time I'd hate to see the Bulls make another lopsided trade that isn't in their favour. The Toronto deal wasn't quite as bad as I expected, but I don't want to see Crawford go for "potential" or more blue collar defenders. Defense is important, but every team needs a player who on any given night can score 20-25 points. Crawford could be that player, but he doesn't seem to be do it often enough. It wouldn't matter if the Bulls had more scorers, but they don't.

Fizer needs to go. Since the 2000 NBA Draft, he's had ill-advised pick written all over him. Given the opportunity, he might thrive in another system, but in any case, I think it's time that the Bulls part ways with him.

This leaves us with the following lineup:

C: Curry
F: Chandler
F: Williams
G: ???
G: Hinrich

We haven't really discussed the bench, so let's assume those are the only four players the Bulls have decided to keep so far.

So who else should stay, filling the vacant position in the starting lineup and making up the bench?

[air gordon]

nice post reapers and andrew...

i would hold on to paxson. imo opinion calling pax a failure and firing him now would be premature. almost everyone overrated the bulls and predicted them heading to the playoffs. it's not his fault. krause left him with this mess. the bull's supposed franchise players were just not ready- whether it was due to a pager falling on curry's eye causing him to be out of shape coming into camp or chandler hurting his back. and let's not forget that jay williams injury was a big setback. a lottery team losing it's top draft pick from last year is big blow- it's like sucking for an entire year and not getting a top 5 pick


i would definitely hang on to curry and hinrich. i give chandler another year. if he proves to have camby like durabiliy, show him the door. i guess jerome williams can stick around but his type is easily replaced. he's better suited coming off the bench.

i think you hang on to crawford. for now at least. A lot of his inconsistency has to do with the bulls lacking another quality scorer. curry can be that inside scoring punch for jamal to compliment, but curry doesn't bring it every night. other then crawford, no one else can create their own shot. it's easy for defenses to focus on him because they know this. crawford has shown he can put up 20-25 on any given night with the bulls current talent. imagine how much better he could be if curry could consistently be a force inside and the bulls brought in a SF who could score.

also keep:
kendall gill- he's a solid vet and local guy who will come cheap. shouldn't be starting
erob- surprisingly he's found his niche on the team- sixth man and defensive stopper. his jump shot looks like it's coming around.. finally..i don't think charlotte would take him due to his big salary
antonio davis- only because they have to
pippen- arrange a buyout in his contract but keep him in the bulls organization as a assistant or whatever.

the rest can take a hike

bulls need to get a bonafide SF/SG that can score. the draft is not the answer unless they package the pick and someone to get that SF/SG

[reapershole]

This leaves us with the following lineup:

C: Curry
F: Chandler
F: Williams
G: ???
G: Hinrich

We haven't really discussed the bench, so let's assume those are the only four players the Bulls have decided to keep so far.

So who else should stay, filling the vacant position in the starting lineup and making up the bench?

You make several valid points in your response and I want to go ahead and talk about the Chicago Bulls bench a little bit...

Corie Blount
Rick Brunson
Antonio Davis
Ronald Dupree
Marcus Fizer
Kendall Gill
Chris Jefferies
Scottie Pippen
Eddie Robinson

Before we say or do anything lets remember that the Charlotte Bobcats are likely to take Robinson as the bulls will protect the following five, or rather they should...

Kirk Hinrich
Eddy Curry
Jerome Williams
Tyson Chandler
Jamal Crawford

Incidentally these players happen to be the general starting five of the future for Chicago, although I do agree Chicago needs a better 3 and a much better 2. So, with E-Rob likely on his way to Charlotte who do we have on the bench we should keep? Let's drop my list of new GM's for the Bulls and say the head office all gets together and does A LOT OF CRACK and they hire me just for the hell of it... The following is likely what I would do or try to do.

Chicago needs a veteran and a better 2-guard and Miami has shopped Eddie Jones on more than one occasion, note their youth movement. Now I want to keep the following players off of the bench without a doubt...

Ronald Dupree
Kendall Gill

Yes folks, that's all that I want. So, since we have sighted their youth movement we offer Jamal Crawford a sign and trade move to his alma motto Seattle. He loves Seattle and will embrace a move there and knows Chicago can pay him more. Seattle is point guard low and center heavy and they will likely be willing to go for a move. I think we'd have a shot at either Potapenko or Booth with a pick. Of course we keep the freaking pick for ourselves and then we deal with Miami as they are still starting Brian Grant out of position and Odom out of his spot and Butler out of his and so on. Miami is also without a gritty player who could back spots 3, 4, or 5. Thus, we can finally be rid of Marcus Fizer who Pat Riley has coveted openly...

It would look like this...

Seattle
Jamal Crawford (Chi)

Chicago
Seattle Pick
Eddie Jones (Mia)

Miama
Marcus Fizer (Chi)
Calvin Booth (Sea)

In one swoop we fix our shoot guard trouble with a proven veteran and get a scorer we can rely on and get a pick we can deal off in the future. Also, Eddie tried to get traded to Chicago out of a desire to go home a year or so ago around when we got Jalen Rose instead, and I think it is time Chicago nods at that and goes for him...

Enter Dallas and their endless search for a center. Hey wait, we have a useless center that everyone knows plays defense and Dallas has no defense, hmm...

Dallas Gets...
Antonio Davis
First Round Draft Pick (Sea)

Chicago Gets...
Antoine Walker / Antawn Jamison

Dallas will do one or the other as they have both proven effective on the team but utterly ineffective together and they know they need a center more than another forward on a forward heavy team and they aren't moving Nash, Finley, or the big No.

Now let's look at Chicago...

Eddy Curry
Jerome Williams
Antoine Walker / Antawn Jamison
Eddie Jones
Kirk Hinrich
-------------------
Tyson Chandler
Corie Blount
Rick Brunson
Ronald Dupree
Kendall Gill
Chris Jefferies
Scottie Pippen

Now Scottie was more of a assistant coach this year than a player so we buy out his contract and dub him coaching staff, I am sure Scottie's knees won't mind and we wanted in the head office anyways. That leaves us with a five man bench, a salary similar to what we already had which is under the cap by a good bit, and we are in the best free agent off season that there has been in a while. I say we keep Blount. He's loyal, he's picked up his game as a veteran, he's cheap, and we need a man at the bottom of the bench who can play C or PF, oh and he is early to work outs and practice. You need guys like this on your team and he doesn't cost much. Dupree is the same way and so is Kendall Gill. If Tyson can stay healthy he may get Williams' spot but he's going to have to prove himself which I think he wants to do anyways. I would not resign Rick Brunson and I would wave Chris Jefferies. They're relatively pointless.

The Free Agent hunt, Chicago aims too high too often. Let's look at...

Jermaine Jackson
John Amaechi
Anthony Carter
Olumide Oyediji
Maceo Baston

These are the boys from the free agent pool I go for. Screw Kobe Bryant unless he comes to us which is highly unlikely anyways. No more playing with high market free agents that just waste our time while the good bench players get sucked up. Chicago can jump right in and get a reserve center, point guard, and small/shoot right off the bat. The top three players on that list would do us just fine so let's say we got them (and they are not even the best available so don't even start), now let's look at the Chicago Bulls for 2004/2005...

Eddy Curry
Jerome Williams
Antoine Walker / Antawn Jamison
Eddie Jones
Kirk Hinrich
-------------------
Tyson Chandler
Corie Blount
Ronald Dupree
Kendall Gill
Jermaine Jackson
John Amaechi
Anthony Carter

Now that is a team on its way to the playoffs. I don't think any of these trades are remotely unrealistic either. Dallas would take the pick with Davis just because they need a center so bad they'd take the deal without the pick. They'll see it as incentive and as us kissing their ass, which is what it is... and if it works there is no shame in it at all. Hell, do the deal on draft day and give them our current top pick (which could likely be in the top five) with the Seattle pick. Who cares about rookies right now in Chicago, we want to move forward and stop development proceedings.

So there you have it ladies and gentleman, if Andrew Grimm were a GM that is how he would slice and dice the Chicago Bulls and as I said before, I don't think it is much of a stretch at all...

[benji]

Seattle
Jamal Crawford (Chi)

Chicago
Seattle Pick
Eddie Jones (Mia)

Miama
Marcus Fizer (Chi)
Calvin Booth (Sea)

...

Dallas Gets...
Antonio Davis
First Round Draft Pick (Sea)

Chicago Gets...
Antoine Walker / Antawn Jamison

Please, don't ignore the CBA sir...

Dallas will do one or the other as they have both proven effective on the team but utterly ineffective together and they know they need a center more than another forward

So they'd trade for Davis who is a misplaced Forward?

The Free Agent hunt, Chicago aims too high too often. Let's look at...

Jermaine Jackson
John Amaechi
Anthony Carter
Olumide Oyediji
Maceo Baston

These are the boys from the free agent pool I go for.

Where's that vomiting emoticon...anyone who signs Amaechi isn't right in the head...Carter and Oyediji are worthless..Jackson and Baston aren't worth much more...adding them to the team would just be like rebuilding the 2002 Raptors...

now let's look at the Chicago Bulls for 2004/2005...

Eddy Curry
Jerome Williams
Antoine Walker / Antawn Jamison
Eddie Jones
Kirk Hinrich
-------------------
Tyson Chandler
Corie Blount
Ronald Dupree
Kendall Gill
Jermaine Jackson
John Amaechi
Anthony Carter

Now that is a team on its way to the playoffs.

If the league expanded the playoffs to include 24 teams...

I don't think any of these trades are remotely unrealistic either.

CBA...CBA...

Dallas would take the pick with Davis just because they need a center so bad they'd take the deal without the pick.

Again, Davis is a misplaced Forward. Allas doesn't need a center, they have the one they need in Shawn Bradley, but Don Nelson has some problem with using him like Mark Eaton (which he did to begin last season and they exploded to a 11-0 start and were top four in defense before abandoning it once LaFrentz came back and watching the team collapse and fall to ninth for the year).

[RedTorro]

I think I remember reading about Fizer being drafted by the Bulls for somebody else but we got stiffed. The Bulls were supposed to trade him on draft day. Anyways I agreew with what most of you guys are saying. However I have to disagree that Jerry was completely lucky as much as I hate him for destroying the franchise. The man does have an eye for talent unfortunately the players he deafted never stuck around long enough.

Question... what to do with the number 1 pick? I don't think the guy from UConn is the key.

I just hope the Bulls are real careful and don't go after players driven by greed as opposed to winning. Jalen Rose was selfish, Eddie Robinson is selfish, Walker is not the answer just look at what he did alone in Boston and once Paul Pierce took over. Jamison too.. he lost the team to guys like Arenas and J Rich once they stepped it up. It would have been Christmas if he would have landed KG but it's highly unlikely he will ever be a Bull. Kobe (as much as I hate to say it) could be a legit franchise player for Chicago with the young core of talent thats already there. Curry could eventually be the Shaq of the East with the touchness that Kobe brings to the table. I doubt Kobe will leave the Lakers despite these high hopes ... the guy just keeps saying he wants to explore his options so teams will compete and jack up the price the Lakers will have to pay to resign him. So who is another legit franchise player that could possibly be attainable in the near future? I would definately have to say... well .. mabey... nope there is nobody out there folks so we are better off saving our cap money.

[fgrep15]

Chicago needs a veteran and a better 2-guard and Miami has shopped Eddie Jones on more than one occasion, note their youth movement. Now I want to keep the following players off of the bench without a doubt...

Eddie Jones is 33 this year, they can't get a guy that is supposed to be a major part in the coming years that is that old.

Yes folks, that's all that I want. So, since we have sighted their youth movement we offer Jamal Crawford a sign and trade move to his alma motto Seattle. He loves Seattle and will embrace a move there and knows Chicago can pay him more. Seattle is point guard low and center heavy and they will likely be willing to go for a move. I think we'd have a shot at either Potapenko or Booth with a pick. Of course we keep the freaking pick for ourselves and then we deal with Miami as they are still starting Brian Grant out of position and Odom out of his spot and Butler out of his and so on. Miami is also without a gritty player who could back spots 3, 4, or 5. Thus, we can finally be rid of Marcus Fizer who Pat Riley has coveted openly...

Only Brian Grant and Odom are out of position, Butler isn't a shooting guard, he's a 3.

Enter Dallas and their endless search for a center. Hey wait, we have a useless center that everyone knows plays defense and Dallas has no defense, hmm...

Dallas Gets...
Antonio Davis
First Round Draft Pick (Sea)

Chicago Gets...
Antoine Walker / Antawn Jamison

Dallas will do one or the other as they have both proven effective on the team but utterly ineffective together and they know they need a center more than another forward on a forward heavy team and they aren't moving Nash, Finley, or the big No.

Nash is a free agent after this seasons anyways, also Antonio Davis is actually a power forward, not a center, he only played center for the Raptors b/c their was no one else. Note: He's only 6'9 and is getting old, I don't think Dallas would do it.

I also don't thin Walker is the answer at all, I don't know about Jamison, but with the whole defense thing Jamison isn't the greatest guy either.

The Free Agent hunt, Chicago aims too high too often. Let's look at...

Jermaine Jackson
John Amaechi
Anthony Carter
Olumide Oyediji
Maceo Baston

Are the Bulls trying to lose??...all those guys are scrubs that wouldn't help at all, Oyediji never played on the Magic, Amaechi is just garbage, there's much better out their for cheap than Anthony Carter, and Baston is the only guy that could be semi-decent, and the rest are just not cutting it.

[reapershole]

ok, i was going to defend myself and get all crazy about it but... yeah, i made several key mistakes. walker would be a wash but his value isn't, walker is the type of player who could be moved again later. it doesn't matter though, if they gave up anything they'd give up jamison because he doesn't play in their rotation near as well as walker does and i will go on record stating that jamison is a good player who can be a key resource on a team and that he just needs the opportunity at it again. i've seen what the guy can do and he is not be be scoffed at, everyone makes mistakes. my move for eddie jones was not a long time thing, it was to get a shooter that would spread the defense and i wanted jamison to have a definative slasher. with jones and jamison at 2 and 3 it would open the paint up a lot more for curry and make it more difficult for guard to come into chicago and have career rebounding nights (which i don't even want to get into as the past few years of the bulls just piss me off).

i will agree with andrew that kobe would be the shit, but i'm not even considering it as he's just jacking up the price and will be a laker - just as andrew said.

now for my free agents.

i'm not looking for stars guys. i'm sure i could find a few cba or nbdlers or even europeanites - that wasn't the point. i was looking for reserve who have already played nba ball. anthony carter can be a really good reserve point guard if someone puts faith in him - pat riley proved it and carter himself has proved it in the past and if you never caught it then you don't watch the freaking game.

as for john amaechi , yep - my bad. no arguements, no discussions - M Y B A D. i was just looking at previous stats for the guys and previous league numbers and i guess i felt like maybe he didn't get a fair shake at it. he played somewhat well for what you would look for in a reserve, if memory serves, in orlando and then signed with the jazz and rode the end of the bench. i thought, if given the chance, he might be able to be a decent reserve. i mean, in the east no one has any centers let alone center reserves - i thought it was worth a frikkin shot.

as for olumide oyediji, note i didn't sign him. i don't feel i need to defend this though, i was considering him in the same light i considered amaechi. hell, i thought brian williams aka bison dele aka fish food deserved a second chance back in the day - no one else seemed to except sports analysts and phil jackson of the lakers in an interview he did shortly before dele was found missing - but hey, like i said, what the hell do i know.

i notice none of you criticized jermaine jackson, which is good. shows we can agree on something.

i do stand by eddie jones, antawn jamison, and anthony carter for the reasons i specified. as hinrich develops the point guard reserve will become less important and anothony carter was known for doing special, positive, things with select minutes. he's been bad mouthed because he was incapable of taking over for tim hardaway back with tim was in his prime and injured and then again when he left miami. i don't think that means carter was a bad guard, he just wasn't an all star which, again, is why i would have signed him for the bench.

some people are realistic, others have kobe, t-mac, and garnet on one team in their fantasies. personally, i feel like some of this had a shot to go off especially when one considers cuban's desire to rehire coming free agent nick van exel and how he would be hard fought to do so with a salary drain like jamison on the team.

i'll stop, it's pointless. you'll just scream cba or tell me davis isn't a center and try to explain that shawn bradley is good again. incidently, for the person who actually tried to do that - thanks, i haven't laughed that hard in a while. shawn bradley is a really tall gheorghe muresan wannabe (and if you wanna be that guy you outta go jump off something really tall and hope for your head hitting the ground first).

[katguy8]

i think Marcus Fizer and Jammall Crawford should be starting Fizer can score and play d and scott right now is not giving him enough time

Krause trading Brand was a horrible move that takes away a 20PPG 10RPG

for Tyson Chandler who has yet to develop into a superstar

Trading Ron Artest also hurt the team he has great d and will give you 15PPG , but his attitude was wrong

This off-season they need to find a superstar free-agent and dont be so cheap toward him and sign him to max 3-4 Years

Eddie Robinson who has been trash for the bulls since coming over is starting to actully play decent the last week or so draining jump shots passing the ball over for the assist. He has been playing good has of late but the question is how long with that last..

the starting 5 will be tough to choose...
well heres there roster

2003-04 Roster
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT DOB FROM YRS
43 Corie Blount F-C 6-10 242 1/04/69 Cincinnati '93 10
9 Rick Brunson G 6-4 190 6/14/72 Temple '95 6
3 Tyson Chandler F-C 7-1 235 10/02/82 Dominguez HS (CA) 2
1 Jamal Crawford G 6-5 190 3/20/80 Michigan '03 3
2 Eddy Curry C-F 6-11 285 12/05/82 Thornwood HS (IL) 2
34 Antonio Davis C-F 6-9 230 10/31/68 Texas-El Paso '90 10
20 Ronald Dupree F 6-7 209 1/26/81 Louisiana State '03 R
21 Marcus Fizer F 6-8 260 8/10/78 Iowa State '01 3
13 Kendall Gill G 6-5 216 5/25/68 Illinois '90 13
12 Kirk Hinrich G 6-3 190 1/02/81 Kansas '03 R
6 Chris Jefferies* F 6-8 230 2/13/80 Fresno State '03 1
33 Scottie Pippen* F-G 6-8 228 9/25/65 Central Arkansas '87 16
32 Eddie Robinson F 6-9 210 4/19/76 Central Oklahoma '99 4
11 Jerome Williams F-C 6-9 206 5/10/73 Georgetown '96 7
*=injured

[fgrep15]

Some Bulls News

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cs ... ull27.html

Gilbert Arenas notched his second career triple-double with 21 points, 13 assists and 12 rebounds. Arenas said he's still mad at former Bulls GM Jerry Krause for drafting Trent Hassell one spot ahead of Arenas. Krause picked Hassell with the 30th selection in 2001.

I love this guy

[Fresh8]

I reakon the Bulls will be trying to sign Kobe Bryant....u know- they want to sell tickets and then after a few seasons when everyone knows how to play with each other they'll start winning rings....But maybe this scenario is highly unlikely....

They could sign Ron Mercer! He got cut by Spurs BTW....

My recomended Starting Five:
C: Curry
PF: Chandler
SF: Bryant
SG: Mercer
PG: Hinrich

But it wont happen! lol

Oh yeah...Marcus Fizer should LEAVE! I hope Jay Williams comes back....

[Andrew]

i will agree with andrew that kobe would be the shit, but i'm not even considering it as he's just jacking up the price and will be a laker - just as andrew said.

That was actually Redbulls, but I guess I might as well comment on Kobe too.

As good as Kobe is, it's a real gamble for the Bulls to go after him. First of all, as you mentioned, major free agents have been avoiding Chicago due to Krause's reputation. Krause is no longer running the show, but that doesn't guarantee free agents will be flocking to Chicago, cap space or no cap space. If Chicago is going to make a run at Kobe, there needs to be a Plan B in case a T-Mac situation arises.

Aside from the usual bidding for free agents gamble, there's also the question of Kobe's trial. I don't want to get into another innocent or guilty debate, but if he is found guilty, he's likely to serve time in prison. If he's incarcerated, he can't play in the NBA, which doesn't help the team he's signed with. Obviously it would be a huge blow to the Lakers, but without Kobe they still have Shaq, Payton and Malone. If the Bulls were to sign Kobe, not having him would leave them with a roster pretty much the same as this year. Barring some drastic improvements in the Three Cs' play, that means another season waiting and hoping.

Then of course you have to wonder if it would be a good idea getting Kobe at all. I don't doubt that he would improve the Bulls, but it might not allow Curry and Chandler to flourish at the offensive end if Kobe was to join the Bulls. But at the same time, it would be foolish not to at least consider adding a player like Kobe to the team if there's half a chance it might be possible.

Whether Kobe leaves the Lakers or not, I don't think there's much chance of him coming to the Bulls. I think signing Kobe should be Plan B unless he starts showing a lot of interest in coming to Chicago.

[air gordon]

chicago has no chance at signing any big name FA's this upcoming offseason unless they are willing to sign for the veteran's minimum or MLE

tmac can opt out of his contract AFTER NEXT YEAR

chandler is being benched because he has wardrobe malfunction, SI is reporting the bulls are one of the most poorly conditioned teams. go figure, most of the top prospects in the upcoming draft are high schoolers and the lone fine college prospect is a PF. what a mess

[DipSetVC]

Can someone please tell me Eddy Curry's line again for tonight? I want my jaw to drop in awe... Also give it up for Kirk Hinrich...

[fgrep15]

Hinrich, Crawford, and Curry all did good.

Hinrich had the Triple Double, and Crawford and Curry shot very well. Wait Crawford shot well, geez I've been waiting buddy.

Eddy Curry rebounded andd blocked, 14 boards and 6 blocks, man Curry and boards and blocks just don't go together too well. He also played 47 mins, I don't know how he survived that long.

Anyways good game from him and the rest. It like a Raptors game, it goes into overtime and the scores are still in the 80's.

[Andrew]

I know I say this everytime Curry has a good game, but if only he could do that consistently. It's obvious that he has the ability to put up great numbers...now he needs to find the motivation to give that kind of effort night in and night out.

Meanwhile, a triple double for Hinrich. Chicago must not let him go. As the season has progressed, he's had more and more impressive games.

[reapershole]

blah blah blah, crawford shot well, blah blah blah, when curry turns it on we win, blah blah blah (i won't say anything about hinrich, he's new and doesn't deserve it).

have none of you memories?!?

this is the repeat of last year, suck suck suck suck, end of the season and it doesn't matter, flashes of brilliance everywhere.

oh god, the way they ended it... they're gonna be soooo good next year.

don't any of you say it, not once you hear me?

don't say this is an indication of things to come or so help me i will fly to where you live and smack the shit out of you with the completely unused playbood of the chicago bulls.

as i said before, crawford is a sign and trade - no pauses, just freaking do it and get it over with and while you're at it get us someone who can play and trade whatever you need to do it aside from curry, hinrich, and dupree - i'm at the point where i say screw the whole lot of the rest of them. they're win tonight was complete luck, say what you will but cleveland played for shit. it was not our "defense" or our great offense or how well hinrich was poised (which was well i must say *proud*) - it was just plain old run of the mill luck and i will believe nothing else until i see the bulls do this consistently and at the beginning of a season.

come on paxson, sake things up and move the roster around all sorts of places. keep three and gut the rest, let's mimic new york and change chicago FOR GOOD and FOR THE BETTER.
____________________________________________

Screw the draft, sign me some real honest to god role players.

[air gordon]

funny stuff mr grimm. at least the guys are still giving the effort. well most of the time. i don't want to debate this but i will say what the cavs did tonite a lot of teams do- they come into the UC and don't take the home team seriously. the good teams are able to put it together, start caring, then let the bulls break down... not necessarily in that order

tonite you could tell lebron james was coasting then tried to turn it on in the 4th qtr. he caught some fire but it was too late. i'm a little disappointed- if the league is going to promote this guy like he's greatest thing to come to the nba since that one guy from UNC, then he should go out and play like the greatest and play hard every nite- regardless of the opposition. magic, zeke, bird, jordan, etc would go out and destroy teams like the bulls from the start then relax on the bench and joke around while the scrubs played the game out.

sigh
shrug

as far as the sign and trade crawford- most of the teams that are interested in him have the cap room to throw at him in the offseason. paxson knew this so probably he was getting lowballed with their offers. if trading crawford lands a bonafide scoring SF who can hit perimeter shots that's not old and/or broken, i'd all be for it.

current SF's who somewhat fit the bill and possibly attainable
stephen jackson
antawn jamsion
al harrington
quentin richardson
mike miller
caron butler
wally sczerbiak
joe johnson
hedo turkoglu

personally i'd like to see pax go the spurs route- build around 2 seven footers- one dominating on offense, the other more complimentary on offense but great on offense... then surround them with good defensive players that can hit perimeter shots.

the team currently has the personell that has the potential to fill those roles:
curry could be the dominating force on offense, chandler could be the defensive force. hinrich is good to go at pg.

then go out and get a player like battier, who would be a great fit for this team and is maybe available with Posey playing great.

assuming crawford goes in the deal for battier, that leaves them their draft pick to dangle along with a salary filler like erob or jyd to get a SG.

maybe this plan sucks and never happens. to me it makes sense if only hinrich, curry, and chandler were the ones around after pax cleaned house

if you want to come beat me up, reapers, i'll be at the laker game next week

[Andrew]

reapershole, I'm glad you're passionate about NBA discussion and it's great to have another Bulls fan on the forum...but your last post sort of wandered away from civil discussion. Please try to keep personal threats and insults (mildly expressed as they may be) out of the conversation. I'm sure you didn't mean any personal harm, but it's easy to misinterpret things posted on a message board, which is how most flame wars start. Thanks.

On-topic:

I didn't mean to suggest that everything was fine. I was simply stating that I was glad to see good performances by a couple of players, and once again wishing aloud that they could do it consistently. At the same time, I (like many other Bulls fans I'm sure) am disheartened knowing players like Curry are capable of putting up great numbers and doing the things needed to win, but are unable to do it often enough for the team to be successful.

[reapershole]

i am sorry. i am passionate about MY chicago bulls as i've loved the team for 22 years of my 26 year long life. the second tonight's game was over you get to see, if you live in chicago and turn on fox sports for chicago, norm van lier talking about how great the bulls are doing at the close of the season.

i started to see this and i just flat out went off. i could not contain it, it pissed me off. i utterly argee with the comment made after the last comment i made. we need a scoring forward who isn't a mess and if you check earlier in this sting i make a bid for jamison as well - he is nearly a perfect fit for chicago and could compliment curry and hinrich (and i suppose chandler) very well. i do want crawford as history.

i will make no bones about that one. as long as our offense relies on that little scawned less-than-run-of-the-mill-shoot-guard we will be exactly that. if we keep him he needs about 50 lbs of muscle and a much, much MUCH MUCH better post game with the ability to finish around the basket (which he has almost zero skill with anything aside from off-balanced mid-ranges and relatively decent fade-away three point shots).

i'm yammering at this point. i'm not gonna hunt anyone down and smack them with a playbook by the way, it was of course just something to say and i can't believe anyone here would actually take that as a serious statement.

[Andrew]

The reason I expressed concern over a couple of your comments is that in my experience, sentiments such as those can lead to flame wars and send a thread off-topic.

I do understand and appreciate your point of view. It's just that I felt you expressed it a little aggressively, which can cause problems.

I actually agree with you regarding the good play of late; it's too little, too late, and it doesn't mean that everything's OK. If that's what my previous post (the one before my last post) suggested then I apologise, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was just mentioning (as I've done after other good performances) that I wish guys like Curry were this motivated from start to finish.

As far as Crawford goes, if he can get the Bulls the right player, by all means trade him. But if it means getting more potential or the wrong player, I'd rather have Crawford than a further setback without the trade bait.

[reapershole]

point taken.

[arenas809]

if you guys didn't know...

This board at basketballboards.net is probably the best Bulls forum on the net...

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/f ... forumid=27

[fgrep15]

Skiles thinks Youngsters can be young Stars

The Bulls don't have any stars. They have some talented young players who have experienced nothing but abject failure since they entered the NBA and who know nothing about what it takes to win. The Bulls' 97-88 loss in Philadelphia on Saturday was the latest evidence that they have yet to develop a winning mentality.

With no money to chase free agents, it's going to be up to the youngsters -- Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Tyson Chandler and Kirk Hinrich -- to turn things around on their own.

And for whatever it's worth, coach Scott Skiles sees reasons for optimism.

''Every morning when I look out my window at the Berto Center, I have more and more guys shooting before practice, and they continue to practice better,'' Skiles said. "I've never been around a team when once that started happening, it didn't eventually pay off with wins.''

Many want operations chief John Paxson to blow things up by trading all the young players for established stars, but it's not that easy. There was scant interest in anyone but Hinrich, whom Paxson deemed untouchable, before the Feb. 19 trade deadline. Paxson could have traded Curry, but the offers weren't close to being realistic.

''All the moves we made this year prove that we're counting on these guys, and it's their team,'' Paxson said. ''They have to claim ownership of this team.''

Cleveland Cavaliers coach Paul Silas offered to take Curry or Chandler off Paxson's hands.

''Yeah, tell them to give up on those guys, so I can get one,'' Silas joked. ''You can't give up on young guys, especially big ones, because that could come back to haunt you.

''There's something about being a big person in this business; it doesn't happen right away. It takes time.''

''I like my team,'' Skiles said. ''I'm proud of the improvement Eddy and Jamal have made

[Andrew]

I'm glad the Bulls aren't too quick to pull the trigger on any deals. Not only does the "Jermaine O'Neal" factor come into play, the Bulls don't need another trade where they get little or nothing in return. I know it's pointless to remain bitter over the Pippen for Roy Rogers and a second round pick trade back in 1999, but it's a fine example of how to trade away a valuable player for virtually nothing in return.