Rubio to stay in Spain.

[Andrew]

But you can't force someone to take a job they don't want to, it's not as though they're signed to an iron-clad contract the moment they're Drafted. I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think there's any legal or ethical way you could force players who are drafted to play in the NBA any more than teams must be forced to sign any player they Draft to a contract.

[Mayerhendrix]

I don't see how it would be much different from the Early Decision college admission process in the United States. You apply for a college [or in NBA players' case, the chance to enter the league] and if you're "accepted", you're obligated to go. There's a legal premise for that, and nobody refers to it as "student slavery".

[benji]

IMO there should be a rule so that if a team that holds your draft rights wants you to play -- you're obligated to do it. Entering the draft marks a major commitment, and players should be held to that.

What if you're already under contract with another team?

If you're not interested in the NBA, why send out feelers and then sign a contract? I also have to wonder if it's merely a leverage tactic, and if he'd feel differently if he could be traded somewhere else, leading to a Steve Francis-like situation.

Rubio hasn't signed a contract, and won't until he comes over.

It's only "merely a leverage tactic" if you think Rubio doesn't care about having to lose at least half a million dollars (probably more after taxes are factored in) just to play in the NBA.

[J@3]

I just think you shouldn't enter the NBA draft if you aren't committed to playing in the NBA when you're drafted.

It makes great financial sense for guys projected to go in the second round, or not be drafted at all. They are not bound by the rookie scale, so if some 19 year old Euro who can't tie his own shoe laces is picked in the 2nd round then 4 years later inhabits the skills of Shawn Bradley, Larry Johnson, Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan and Muggsy Bogues he can come to the NBA and ask for whatever he wants, as opposed to if he were drafted then he'd be bound by the rookie salary for whatever position he was picked.

Fair enough, but why declare for the Draft when it wouldn't be financially feasible to even go to the NBA? I see what you're saying here...

I think alot of it would've depended on where he was drafted. Not that he would've absolutely have wanted to go to certain teams, but there are teams where his marketing and earning potential are much higher than others which would've softened the blow of paying out $6 million. He'd make alot more money off the court playing for New York or (I'm assuming) in California than he would playing in Minnesota.

[Andrew]

I don't see how it would be much different from the Early Decision college admission process in the United States. You apply for a college [or in NBA players' case, the chance to enter the league] and if you're "accepted", you're obligated to go. There's a legal premise for that, and nobody refers to it as "student slavery".

It's not a job, either. It's also referring to special circumstances, it's not like everyone who goes to college isn't able to drop out or decide to attend another college that accepts them. As being an NBA player is a profession, I go back to my example of a job application. If you are successful and are offered the position, until you sign on the dotted line you can back out without any issues (though if word gets around it might hurt your career within the industry).

Rubio hasn't signed a contract, and won't until he comes over.

I was referring to Billy Donovan.

[Hedonist]

Big deal, it's not like it's never happenend before.
Arvydas Sabonis didn't play in the NBA the first nine years after he was drafted but he still went to Portland who held his draft rights.

Maybe if the T-Wolves had a chance of making it to the playoffs this debate would make some sense but since they really don't it's no big loss if Rubio comes a year later or even two in my opinion. Although it is a pity.

The situation may be a bit weird (the buy-out is disproportionally high to what he makes) but I give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Modifly]

We might see another steal in the upcoming years. Much like when the Spurs drafted Scola and couldn't complete a buyout, the Rockets ended up stealing Scola from them.

So much for me waiting to see Rubio play. Screw this.

[shadowgrin]

Big deal, it's not like it's never happenend before.
Arvydas Sabonis didn't play in the NBA the first nine years after he was drafted but he still went to Portland who held his draft rights.

It's a very different case.

Because the then communist country Sabonis was then under didn't allow him to play in the land of the capitalist pigs. If he tried to disobey them and get away, they could do potentially horrible things to him if they caught or him, or to his family if he managed to escape.

The situation may be a bit weird (the buy-out is disproportionally high to what he makes) but I give him the benefit of the doubt.

His Spanish team were well aware of his potential and the way NBA scouts get a boner out of him, so the buyout is high, as expected.

[Donatello]

I contend that I don't think it's correct for a player to enter into the draft without every intention of playing in the NBA the following season, with the team that drafted him. That means- not entering the draft if you're under contract to be doing something else. Certainly when you're guaranteed to be a high pick like Rubio was. Minnesota happened to have two picks right in a row, so this situation is a bit different.

But teams sometimes give up alot to get those high draft picks.

I know ownership is aware of the risks and all, and I also know that ownership does more than their share of ridiculous bullshit as well (I'm just not talking about that directly here), but it just seems wrong.

[The X]

We'll have to wait and see with the Rubio situation. It's obviously not an ideal situation. If it's about the money, play out your 1-2 years of your contract & then sign rookie contract with T'wolves. Although I get the feeling his camp wants him to go straight away, even if it means having to live on borrowed money in the hopes of landing a big contract once the rookie contract ends. Although if he went a few picks higher, or was in a bigger market for endorsement purposes, it would ease the transition. The sooner he comes over to NBA, the sooner his rookie contracts end & the sooner he can start earning money & repaying loans. It's a bit of a gamble though, especially if Rubio has a career ending injury or turns into a complete bust, but since he's so young, it's probably just safer to just play out his current contract & wait for next NBA lockout to end, then come over.

I'd agree with Andrew that NBA teams should be able to pay out player's buyouts if they want that players straight away.

In the end, I'd love for the Timberwolves to keep him & give the keys to him to run the team, but only on the proviso that Jonny Flynn is shown the door & traded. If they plan to keep Flynn, I don't care where Rubio ends up. The T'wolves seemed to have hedged their bets & it might not pay off.

Donatello, maybe the NBA Draft should only be for American-based college players & be just the one round. If a team wants to get a Euro/international player, they can sign them as free agents & not have to deal with rolling the dice & potentially wasting a lottery pick (as Magic did on Vasquez).

[shadowgrin]

Teams can pay the buyout but there's a limit.

His agent - Dan Fegan - feels so good about his client's future he is willing to negotiate with financially strapped Joventut - or sue if necessary - to lower a huge buyout of $6 million, claiming the number is not commensurate with his client's $97,000 salary. NBA teams are limited to paying just $500,000 toward an international player's buyout

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... nings.html

Interesting how that mentioned going to court as an option and considering Rubio's agent, it's not a far-fetched possibility.

[Hedonist]

Big deal, it's not like it's never happenend before.
Arvydas Sabonis didn't play in the NBA the first nine years after he was drafted but he still went to Portland who held his draft rights.

It's a very different case.

Because the then communist country Sabonis was then under didn't allow him to play in the land of the capitalist pigs. If he tried to disobey them and get away, they could do potentially horrible things to him if they caught or him, or to his family if he managed to escape.

I know, but the iron curtain had already come down a while when he finally decided to come.

Maybe Marc Gasol is a better example? Less high profile draftee perhaps but well, it's not uncommon for Spanish players to be drafted and debut in the NBA a couple of years later.

My point was that they still hold the draft rights and in two years he may be much more useful to them and vice versa as well; they're probably a better team and Rubio is perhaps even more ready for the NBA than he may be today.

[J@3]

I guess you have to look at it this way, there's two possible scenarios here:

1: Rubio declares with two years on his contract, he can either pay the buy-out and play in the NBA or go back to Europe and make money. He could sign an extension with his European team since now that an NBA team holds his rights he has leverage to go for a bigger deal there.

2: Rubio waits a few years until his contract is expiring. In this time, he's continued averaging 7/1 and shooting 40% which as a 18 year old was fine, but now as a 21 year old it's sending up red flags everywhere. European teams are losing interest in him, the NBA doesn't want him anymore. So because he did "the right thing" he's now essentially ruined any chance he had of earning good money playing professional basketball.

When you're projected to go in the top three you just have to take the chance, it's guaranteed money from either side of the coin and it eliminates the chance of him showing himself as a bust before he gets paid.

There's a perfect example of this in Nemanja Aleksandrov. The name might ring a bell, three or four years ago he was the consensus #1 projected pick in the draft. A 7'1 SF who could shoot and put the ball on the floor, for like two years straight he was a top 3 pick in most respected mocks but every year he withdrew his name from the draft. He's now 21 and has barely improved since he was a kid and has been ravaged by injuries, he's averaging 3ppg in Euroleague and I doubt any NBA team would touch him with a pole since he went undrafted yesterday. Had he declared and been picked #1, that's like 6 million per year in NBA money guaranteed, his European team would've felt obliged to at least match that. But he let it slip, did the "right thing" and now his career seems almost over before it started, he's basically playing off "potential" even though he's getting older.

In the end morally it's probably not the right thing to do but for the individual I can't blame them for wanting to make enough money to live off for the rest of their lives, even if they prove to not deserve it.

[Hedonist]

About raising the possible amount a team can contribute to a buy-out, that could be a solution, but if you'd wanna change the draft rules, why not prohibit players who still have a contract elsewhere?

[Donatello]

There's a perfect example of this in Nemanja Aleksandrov.

Oh, man. Strange that you mention him. I made a cyberface of him in 2004, it was one of my first (and last). It was awful. And I thought it was great, so I released it. Point being, I totally forgot about him even though I did alot of work exclusively with his name and likeness. Good point , though I totally understand why a player WOULD do this. I just don't think it should be allowed in the system. Just a likely unrealistic, idealistic point of view, that's all.

[The X]

There's a perfect example of this in Nemanja Aleksandrov. The name might ring a bell, three or four years ago he was the consensus #1 projected pick in the draft. A 7'1 SF who could shoot and put the ball on the floor, for like two years straight he was a top 3 pick in most respected mocks but every year he withdrew his name from the draft. He's now 21 and has barely improved since he was a kid and has been ravaged by injuries, he's averaging 3ppg in Euroleague and I doubt any NBA team would touch him with a pole since he went undrafted yesterday. Had he declared and been picked #1, that's like 6 million per year in NBA money guaranteed, his European team would've felt obliged to at least match that. But he let it slip, did the "right thing" and now his career seems almost over before it started, he's basically playing off "potential" even though he's getting older.

I never could understand why he didn't declare when he was 18. He could've earnt good money like Skita due to teams looking for the next Dirk. Good points though.

[Andrew]

Teams can pay the buyout but there's a limit.

His agent - Dan Fegan - feels so good about his client's future he is willing to negotiate with financially strapped Joventut - or sue if necessary - to lower a huge buyout of $6 million, claiming the number is not commensurate with his client's $97,000 salary. NBA teams are limited to paying just $500,000 toward an international player's buyout

That's what I meant; $500,000 US wouldn't be enough to buy out a lot of NBA contracts let alone someone making a healthy amount of Euros overseas. Up that limit or remove it altogether if teams are willing to take the financial hit, and that obstacle is cleared more easily.

In the meantime, any reduction in the buyout Fegan can negotiate certainly helps the situation.

[vinceair]

To the whiners: He will be in Spain(Europe's strongest league) 2 years. He has time to improve there. After two years he's just 20!

[Modifly]

Noooo!!! I want to see him play this year!!

[Fcuk Orlando]

He wouldn't be #5 and having that cash drop-down if it hadn't been for the jerking around with "not wanting to play in Memphis".

And the way the thing goes, it has always been business for the teams come draft-time. They're going to trade their picks around for cash, for another player. It's not the greatest thing, but that's the status quo and the draft revolves around the decisions of each team, not the players to be drafted. If they don't want to be a part of that, they can hold back and wait, unless they're four-year college players.

I agree with everyone that this kid is very talented, but I haven't been too impressed by how his camp has pulled things.

Johnny Flynn didn't give a damn where he went and we all saw how optimistic and happy he was to join the Wolves.
Even personality wise Johnny Flynn>Ricky Rubio

[Modifly]

Johnny Flynn didn't give a damn where he went and we all saw how optimistic and happy he was to join the Wolves.
Even personality wise Johnny Flynn>Ricky Rubio

Great point. I dont blame Rubio for not wanting to go to Memphis though, history shows that Memphis isn't the best place for Spanish players. (Navarro, Gasol, etc)

[J@3]

Johnny Flynn didn't give a damn where he went and we all saw how optimistic and happy he was to join the Wolves.
Even personality wise Johnny Flynn>Ricky Rubio

Great point.

No it isn't lol. Johnny Flynn doesn't have to pay 6 million dollars out of his own pocket to play for the Timberwolves. I'd like to see how optimistic and happy he would've been if he did.

[shadowgrin]

Add to the possibility that he didn't consider himself to be drafted that high. Just like the way Jennings was happy.

[Andrew]

To the whiners: He will be in Spain(Europe's strongest league) 2 years. He has time to improve there. After two years he's just 20!

No one is disputing that.

[vinceair]

To the whiners: He will be in Spain(Europe's strongest league) 2 years. He has time to improve there. After two years he's just 20!

No one is disputing that.

I said it to them who called Rubio a dick..