Allen Iverson Thread

[shadowgrin]

04 Pistons Possible 09-10 Bobcats
B. Wallace Okafor
R . Wallace R. Wallace
Prince G. Wallace
Hamilton Iverson
Billups Felton
Okur Diaw
Bell
Augustine
Coach - Larry Brown Larry Brown
The line-up looks the same .
Can you tell me why it's not even close to be like the 04 Pistons .

Please don't make me bring out Easily Amused Cat again. The lineup doesn't have similaritites, not even the starting five you gave.

Billups and Felton isn't even a good comparison or similarity to be used. Felton is no where near the level of 03-04 Billups or even present Billups for that matter. Diaw as Okur? IIRC OKur wasn't even given enough minutes in that 04 Detroit team, you want Diaw to stay in the bench too? The closest to Okur in the 'Cats is Radman. The 04 Pistons has a bench that's willing to play defense, you can't say the same for your imaginary Bobcats because the bench sucks.

[Andrew]

Iverson's playing style isn't exactly similar to Hamilton's either.

[MikeMan™]

That's why there's Larry Brown to change that .
He can teach this team hard defense .
and Billups was nothing before he and Larry Brown came to the Pistons .
Larry Brown teached Chauncey . Now it's time for him to teach Felton .
Iverson's playing style ain't like Hamilton !? Yeah , he's playing style is better .

[Andrew]

Iverson's playing style ain't like Hamilton !? Yeah , he's playing style is better .

That's neither here nor there. If you're making the comparison between past and present teams, the players on each team would need to be similar and in similar roles for there to be a parallel. Iverson prefers to have the ball in his hands, he's not going to play like Hamilton in a 2004 Pistons-style lineup.

[MikeMan™]

Like I said , that's why Larry Brown is there .
If he wants a ring then adapt to it .

[Andrew]

Larry Brown being there is not going to magically transform players into something they're not. If Larry Brown couldn't get Iverson to change his playing style when he was young and stubborn, I doubt he's going to do it when he's older and just as stubborn.

[MikeMan™]

Iverson is hungry for a ring .
If he wants it then he'll do anything to get it .
Larry Brown changed Iverson a bit . Before Larry Brown Iverson was a pure ball hog but when Larry Brown came in well , he was still a ball hog but not that much anymore . He passed and looked for open teammates .

[Andrew]

You've got to play to your strengths though. For better or worse, that's how Iverson plays the game of basketball, that's how he's found success in the NBA. An NBA player can tailor his game a little, sacrifice shots and perhaps even change his attitude to a certain extent but he's not going to become something he's not no matter what the motivation.

[MikeMan™]

Motivation = Championship !? and duh , he's not getting any younger .

[Andrew]

Yes, I'm aware that the motivation you're talking about in this case is a chance to win a championship. I'm saying whatever the motivation is - more money, a shot at a championship, whatever it may be - you don't get too many players who become something they're not. Iverson might sacrifice shots, he might accept that he's not the team's leading scorer but he's not going to play like Richard Hamilton because that's not his game. At most, it will be a variation on what he's done his whole career. But he won't be Richard Hamilton.

[MikeMan™]

Iverson might sacrifice shots, he might accept that he's not the team's leading scorer but he's not going to play like Richard Hamilton because that's not his game. At most, it will be a variation on what he's done his whole career. But he won't be Richard Hamilton.

He's gonna be the team's leading scorer if this happens .
Hamilton was Detroit's Leading Scorer on those days , Am i Right !? ( or wrong )
Richard Hamilton's playing style is easy , coming off-screens then having wide-open shots .
Iverson can do that and can deal with that . Trust me , he can adapt to that . He won't be Richard Hamilton but he'll be better .

[Andrew]

But that's not Iverson's game. Why should he play like Richard Hamilton? Why must he adapt and be something he's not? Since when will playing like Hamilton automatically lead to success? Sure, it works for Hamilton, but it doesn't work for everyone.

And if it's so easy...why doesn't everyone do it? Not everyone has the same skillset or style of play. Some players work better with the ball, others prefer to catch and shoot. There is no reason for Allen Iverson to play like Richard Hamilton. At most, he'll likely have to make some sacrifices and certainly keep his ego and attitude in check but at the end of the day he'll be a different version of Allen Iverson.

[MikeMan™]

There is no reason for A.I. to play like RIp !?
Uhm , less stress and less fatigue !?
No more creating his own shot , just come off screens .

Why does not everyone do it !?
Because not all players are coached by Larry Brown .
and every coach don't have the same strategy .
I believe that Rip didn't had that offensive style of play before playing under Larry Brown .

[Andrew]

There is no reason for A.I. to play like RIp !?
Uhm , less stress and less fatigue !?
No more creating his own shot , just come off screens .

Less fatigue, by running all over the place trying to beat and fight through screens? Hardly.

Why does not everyone do it !?
Because not all players are coached by Larry Brown .

Name one other player that Larry Brown has coached that employs that style of play as consistently as Richard Hamilton, and did not do so for any other coach before or since.

I believe that Rip didn't had that offensive style of play before playing under Larry Brown .

Then you are mistaken in your belief.

[MikeMan™]

Did Larry Brown coached Reggie Miller !?

[Andrew]

He did, but Reggie Miller was playing that way before and after Larry Brown came and went.

[scubilete]

Motivation = Championship !? and duh , he's not getting any younger .

Actually Motivation is not equal to Championship. I've seen this in NY, trust me.

Ok, Iverson played before for coach Brown, doing the same thing of screens, running all over to create easy shots and all of that, and the motivation was there, just didn't equal championship.

Larry Brown coached the Pacers as well, terrific team, had Reggie there doing the same, running all over screens, Motivated, no championship.

Now, you're asking a guy who:
-has done that (sixers) when he was young.
-didn't like the system cause of the results or just because it's not his style, but still he used it for coach Brown.
-don't like practice cause he's just good enough to play ball, "we're talking about practice guys,"

You're asking him to get back to all of that again, play for a worse team than the one he took to the Finals back then, and sure that might mean championship, or at least NBA Finals. I don't think so.

Plus the comparison between the 2004 Pistons with the Bobcats is just insulting, and I didn't even like those Pistons.

[MikeMan™]

Actually Motivation is not equal to Championship. I've seen this in NY, trust me.

No ! I meant his motivation is winning a Championship .

[scubilete]

ok, you meant he's motivated to win a championship, however in Charlotte he's not going to get that. We have plenty of teams that are far better than the Bobcats with Iverson there competing for a championship. Iverson in Charlotte doesn't even mean a 2nd round team. Not even if Iverson gets back to his old and do all he used to, or play like Hamilton.

[MikeMan™]

What about this !?

[Andrew]

They'd probably be at least mildly interested but if AI would prefer not to come off the bench as he says, they probably wouldn't be his first choice despite being a quality team.

[shadowgrin]

What about this !?

What about that? A graphic made by someone doesn't mean it's good and guaranteed that AI's going there.

No ! I meant his motivation is winning a Championship

Uhm , less stress and less fatigue !?

No more creating his own shot , just come off screens .

Iverson can do that and can deal with that . Trust me , he can adapt to that . He won't be Richard Hamilton but he'll be better

Iverson is hungry for a ring .
If he wants it then he'll do anything to get it

If he wants a ring then adapt to it .

Try explaining what happened to him in Detroit? If AI is willing to do anything to get a ring, then why wasn't he able to adapt coming off the bench? Coming off the bench means less stress and fatigue. And being a role player means he won't have to create his own shot, just trust his teammates to get him the ball. What happened if he's willing to adapt, as you say he would?

Larry Brown changed Iverson a bit . Before Larry Brown Iverson was a pure ball hog but when Larry Brown came in well , he was still a ball hog but not that much anymore . He passed and looked for open teammates

What do you mean before Larry Brown? Brown came to Sixers during AI's second season, and even during AI's Brown-less rookie season he had 7.5 assist per game (I'm using per stats just to keep it simple), which is greater in comparison to his assists averages during Brown's tenure with the Sixers.
Iverson was still a ball hog during their championship run, but he had teammates that had no problem deferring to him and the team played good defense under Brown.

Billups was nothing before he and Larry Brown came to the Pistons .

Larry Brown teached Chauncey . Now it's time for him to teach Felton .

Chauncey was already hitting clutch shots before Larry came. Chauncey just needed a good team (coach and teammates).

I believe that Rip didn't had that offensive style of play before playing under Larry Brown

Richard Hamilton's playing style is easy , coming off-screens then having wide-open shots

He had that offensive style even in his Wizard days with Jordan. That's the only style he knows (coming off screens/catch and shoot) because he doesn't have decent handles (until this season I think) and his thin body is not strong enough to create his own shot. Larry Brown just knew the how to use Rip despite Hamilton's offensive limitations.

Motivation = Championship !? and duh , he's not getting any younger .

Try explaining Garnett and the Timberwolves before he played for the Celtics or Kobe and the Lakers when Shaq was gone or the run and gun Suns or the countless other losers in the NBA Finals. They had motivation to win the championship but they couldn't. How else would they make it past the playoffs and through the Finals if they didn't have enough motivation. Motivation doesn't necessarily equate to a championship.

Haha, Andrew got the treament.

[MikeMan™]

Shadowgrin's really a conversation killer .

[Carmo]

You guys forgot to mention Nathan Scott in the Bobcats lineup. I hear he got called up a couple of nights ago.

[MikeMan™]

Who the hell is he !?
If that's true why bring in another player !? The Bobcats didn't get in the PlayOffs !