Substitution Fix 1.4 RIP papa jack 1983-2008

[hoopwreck3r]

How about those files from 07 and 06? can u use them to tweak that Time-out substitution freak?

[Maek]

How about those files from 07 and 06? can u use them to tweak that Time-out substitution freak?

Actually those tuning files doesn't work differently. . .
I tried playing with 06, 07 & 08's tuning files. . .and I landed with the same results. . .so I can say that what ever tuning files, it doesn't matter as long as you're using something.

The substitution for fatigue issue is already resolved since my first patch 1.1, everyone seems to substitute but to substitute correctly. . .that's what I'm up to now. . .

If I could only find that substitution trigger to edit then everything will be okay!

[deihatein]

how about experiment some of 05 files? or some files in 07,06 that may affect the substituion in those lives version. all i can suggest in your patch is PG playing time should be less. this patch is already perfect for me just a little tweak might help it better

[charley3fly]

If we think about it, we only need two key features to make the subsitution satisfactory - players sub out & starters kept in at the end. Right now, Maek, your fix is great in making players sub out, but it does not address the problem of starters not being kept in at the end. The problem here is that the CPU always puts all the starters back in at the beginning of the fourth, but they run out of gas with 2 or 3 minutes left, leaving the most important part of the game to bench players.

If only we can adjust this so that the CPU does not put in the starters at the beginning of the fourth but somewhere in the middle instead. This way, the starters will have enough stamina to finish the game. It must be either the tuning files or some other file that controls this. Once we edit this, everything will be perfect. We can live with the other minor problems like minute distribution that do not matter that much.

A suggestion right now is to lower the bench players' stamina by 2 or 3 points so they will tire more quickly and force the CPU to put starters back in.

[Maek]

If we think about it, we only need two key features to make the subsitution satisfactory - players sub out & starters kept in at the end. Right now, Maek, your fix is great in making players sub out, but it does not address the problem of starters not being kept in at the end. The problem here is that the CPU always puts all the starters back in at the beginning of the fourth, but they run out of gas with 2 or 3 minutes left, leaving the most important part of the game to bench players.

If only we can adjust this so that the CPU does not put in the starters at the beginning of the fourth but somewhere in the middle instead. This way, the starters will have enough stamina to finish the game. It must be either the tuning files or some other file that controls this. Once we edit this, everything will be perfect. We can live with the other minor problems like minute distribution that do not matter that much.

A suggestion right now is to lower the bench players' stamina by 2 or 3 points so they will tire more quickly and force the CPU to put starters back in.

I think we can achieve the 4th Q issue. . .simply by adjusting the substitution frequency slider to 70+ above. . .

It will result to a quick substitution for the bench at 30% of the 4th quarter then sub back the starters after another 30% and play the rest of it. . .

Give it a shot. . .but for sure the whole game will be like Fiba games where player don't play enough minutes due to too many substitution. . .

hehe. . .

[charley3fly]

I think we can achieve the 4th Q issue. . .simply by adjusting the substitution frequency slider to 70+ above. . .

It will result to a quick substitution for the bench at 30% of the 4th quarter then sub back the starters after another 30% and play the rest of it. . .

Give it a shot. . .but for sure the whole game will be like Fiba games where player don't play enough minutes due to too many substitution. . .

hehe. . .

That definitely does not solve the problem. If you don't know how to fix the substitution logic with the tuning files or whatever, can you at least make a fix that lowers the bench players' stamina a bit?

[Maek]

I think we can achieve the 4th Q issue. . .simply by adjusting the substitution frequency slider to 70+ above. . .

It will result to a quick substitution for the bench at 30% of the 4th quarter then sub back the starters after another 30% and play the rest of it. . .

Give it a shot. . .but for sure the whole game will be like Fiba games where player don't play enough minutes due to too many substitution. . .

hehe. . .

That definitely does not solve the problem. If you don't know how to fix the substitution logic with the tuning files or whatever, can you at least make a fix that lowers the bench players' stamina a bit?

Tried doing that but the effect was not so realistic because if you play Dynasty™ or season and there was a trade/draft those low rated players will be doomed with low stamina all Dynasty™ long. . .

This has to be fixed by order or line-up. . .If I can only open Bin files and edit them. . .

[charley3fly]

Tried doing that but the effect was not so realistic because if you play Dynasty™ or season and there was a trade/draft those low rated players will be doomed with low stamina all Dynasty™ long. . .

This has to be fixed by order or line-up. . .If I can only open Bin files and edit them. . .

I'm only saying to lower the bench players (not low rated players) stamina by 2 or 3 points - that small difference cannot possibly doom them all dynasty long. However, in actual games, those 2 or 3 ratings can make an impact on the sub patterns.

[Maek]

Okay if I'll give it a shot. . .what if there's a change in line-up. . .like now. . .
LAC :
C - Powell
PF - Thomas
SF- Thornton
SG - Mobley
PG - Cassell

How can you adjust their ratings when they are just mere back-ups that eventually became starters. . .if you tried to alter through their position it'll be a very difficult task. . .because every now and then line-up changes you know. . .

Therefore, lowering the ratings won't help either. . .it should be editing the suborder or line-up bin files which is impossible. . .

Maybe some would help me to edit a BIN file then I try to make it happen. . .

Thanks though!

[charley3fly]

All right, yes, you have a point. I was thinking about seeing if yesky can edit the suborder.bin, since he's had success with the simengin.bin and is obviously capable at editing bin files.

[Maek]

All right, yes, you have a point. I was thinking about seeing if yesky can edit the suborder.bin, since he's had success with the simengin.bin and is obviously capable at editing bin files.

Yeah! I forgot that simengine is a bin file! Maybe Kris can help me with it. . .he's helping Yesky with the simengine maybe he can help me with the suborder or line-up! Thanks for the heads-up charleyfly!

[charley3fly]

All right, can't wait for the results.

[Maek]

Andrew please move this thread to patch announcement section because some can't find this thread.

Thanks!

[Andrew]

No problem.

[Scrazynet]

is this january 13th the latest version?

[Maek]

is this january 13th the latest version?

Yup! I'm still working for the 1.4.
Though it will surely take me a long time cause I'm just learning how to use the hexprobe.

Try it and give me your feedback!

[nextnba]

Did anyone resolve this sub issue or are we giving up?

[charley3fly]

Did anyone resolve this sub issue or are we giving up?

I thought you stopped playing Live a month ago? Like I said before, try all the patches here and see for yourself.

[Maek]

Did anyone resolve this sub issue or are we giving up?

Can't you read mate?
The substitution issue was already resolved months ago and 98% working realistically.
2 more % then it's perfect.

But if you want to give then it's up to you. . .

[jaredsox]

Hi Maek,

Will this patch help us when we sim games? I have been trying to tweak player ratings without luck. I have my 8,9, and 10 players on the depth chart who don't even get to play in the game.

Thanks,
Jay

[Maek]

Hi Maek,

Will this patch help us when we sim games? I have been trying to tweak player ratings without luck. I have my 8,9, and 10 players on the depth chart who don't even get to play in the game.

Thanks,
Jay

If you are simulating games in Dynasty/Season, trust that my fix doesn't affect it. It is only when you play live and simulate it by not controlling anyone and let the CPU play the game. Players will be subbed according to the stamina and game situation.

I'm trying my best with the suborder.bin.

[ebok_248824]

hey maek can you modify the tuning file you use?

i mean the sub order.bin the lin up and other bin file under the tuning folder.

what tuning file are you using?

[Angelo]

he is using the tuning files that ive released and you can find it in the pack of albys rosters

[WebberF1]

There is so much wrong with lives sub system that it seems impossible to fix it properly but maybe with some tinkering and experiements with the tuning files you can find the best thats possible without ea helping or releasing a patch.

You can never expect perfection but for me the 2 big things are having the bench involved and play a part in winning or losing the game. And making sure that the starters are in for the final 5 mins of the 4th quarter. These would seem like pretty basic things but yet EA screwed them up so good.

I'm sure you already know, but in the ideal situation starters would go out at 3-4 mins to go in 1rst quarter. One or two staying in the game (the stars). About 7-8 mins to go in the 2nd quarter some starters would come back, and the ones that stayed in originally would go out. About 4 mins to go in 2nd quarter those that sat would come back, and the only bench players that would still be in game for last mins of half are the ones that are hot. This isn't how every team subs but it'd be close enough considering all teams would need to use the same system. Anything similar to this using hex edits of the tuning files would be great, but it'd take a mighty effort and lots of evolutions I think.

But anything you can do via tuning files is appreciated.

[Maek]

There is so much wrong with lives sub system that it seems impossible to fix it properly but maybe with some tinkering and experiements with the tuning files you can find the best thats possible without ea helping or releasing a patch.

You can never expect perfection but for me the 2 big things are having the bench involved and play a part in winning or losing the game. And making sure that the starters are in for the final 5 mins of the 4th quarter. These would seem like pretty basic things but yet EA screwed them up so good.

I'm sure you already know, but in the ideal situation starters would go out at 3-4 mins to go in 1rst quarter. One or two staying in the game (the stars). About 7-8 mins to go in the 2nd quarter some starters would come back, and the ones that stayed in originally would go out. About 4 mins to go in 2nd quarter those that sat would come back, and the only bench players that would still be in game for last mins of half are the ones that are hot. This isn't how every team subs but it'd be close enough considering all teams would need to use the same system. Anything similar to this using hex edits of the tuning files would be great, but it'd take a mighty effort and lots of evolutions I think.

But anything you can do via tuning files is appreciated.

Experimenting in the tuning file (suborder.bin) is a very unfavorable work. It's not as easy or close to editing the simengine.bin wherein you just have to simulate a game and found the result within seconds. With the suborder.bin, you have to simulate 16mins for 2 quarters to find out if your edit made any changes, and only if. You may not even recognize a change at all. I think I have to find the most working suborder.bin files from 06, 07 or even 2005. And from there, find a difference between the 2008's suborder.bin. And you can't even say that there's a difference because of the values and integers.

Sometimes I even think that the suborder for all those version are the same. And only the Nbalive08.exe has the triggering values that's need to be edited.

I'll try my best to find an answer but I can't guarantee I can find one.
For now, just use my 1.3. It's the closest substitution fix we can get. The only problem is the substitution trigger, if I can only edit it to substitute when USER calls time-out or even at a simple deadball situation. Darn!