Top ten worst All stars of the last Ten Years

[ploydiboy]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tml?cat=14

What do you think? I think its pretty dead on...

[Lamrock]

No Antoine = fail

[Erchamion]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/592889/top_ten_worst_nba_allstars_of_the_last.html?cat=14

What do you think? I think its pretty dead on...

Maybe the list is but the comments are bad. When a player is a great offensive force but can't play D the guy is whining but when a player is a great defender but can't play O he is also whining. What does the guy want? Only players who are both good in offense and defense? If that's the case he can add a lot of former and current allstars and even superstars to the list and it will be real hard to find 5 starters in both conferences.

[[Q]]

this guy is retarded. I feel Z was worthy of an allstar bid. plus Theo Ratliff was a fucking monster back in the day. how was he not worhty of his all star spot? he pretty much picked centers out of the east from recent years

[BigGameJames]

My vote goes for Jamal Maglorie (sp?) dude couldn't start in the D league now.

[Alejandrov011]

I vote Magloire too.


I don't know why Ratliff is on the list, he was a great defensive player

[[Q]]

because the dude obviously doesn't value defense at all. i'm surprised he didn't have ben Wallace on there

[Andrew]

He seems to acknowledge the context of some selections (such as a conference/league wide shortage of good centres) but ignores it at the same time. Dale Davis is not the prototypical NBA All-Star but he did have a solid season that year and the All-Star game has often featured token appearances recognising players who are overachieving, particularly when there aren't any more suitable candidates. He also seems to judge whether or not some players deserved to be selected based on their career rather than the individual season in question and again, who else was available and whether they were any better candidates that year.

[Fcuk Orlando]

No Antoine = fail

I was thinking the same thing

[Alejandrov011]

When Fatoine played an All Star?

[Lamrock]

1998, 2002, 2003

[BIG GREEN]

I pretty much thought of jamaal magloire as soon as I laid eyes on this thread..and lo and behold..he's number 1 on the list. I was pissed when they picked him over lebron and he smugly said " He's a rookie..he'll have to wait his turn" or some shit like that. I thought to myself back then..how the fuck did this guy get on the team and lebron didn't. Solid picks on that list I'd say...

[Lamrock]

LeBron is a Center?

[Doobie]

No Lamrock. Lebron is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

[Alejandrov011]

1998, 2002, 2003

OMFG



Where I am living...

[Lamrock]

I'm not sure if injury replacements count, but if so, Mehmet Okur would probably make this list.

[Abctest123]

I'm not sure if injury replacements count

I guess they would count. If I remember correctly, Jamaal Magloire was an injury replacement for that one all-star game he got into.

[cyanide]

OMFG
Where I am living...

To be fair, statistically, Fatoine did pretty well for a few years. For instance, in the 2001-2002 season, he averaged 22 ppg, 9 rpg, 5 apg, and 1.5 spg.

[benji]

I took a stab at finding players with PERs (I know, I know, it's easier though) outside the top 40 who made it. Really it should be the top 25 players or so, but I'll shove it down fifteen players to account for conference differences and quibbling. (I'd rather consider WS's, but that sounds like moar work.)

Players who defense easily kicked them up above 40th are marked with *.

1999-2000:
Allan Houston - 57th (18.3pts 3.1rebs 2.5asts, 16.5 PER)
Dale Davis - 44th (12.6pts 12.3rebs, 17.4 PER)*
Honorable Mention:
Glenn Robinson - 39th (21.0pts 6.0rebs 2.4asts, 17.8 PER)

2000-2001:
Latrell Sprewell - 80th (16.3pts 4.1rebs 3.2asts, 15.1 PER)
Allan Houston - 66th (18.4pts 3.6rebs 2.2asts, 16.1 PER)
Antonio Davis - 60th (14.1pts 10.4rebs, 16.5 PER)
Anthony Mason - 49th (14.3pts 8.5rebs 2.7asts, 17.4 PER)
Dikembe Mutombo - 47th (10.4pts 14.1rebs, 17.5 PER)*

2001-2002:
Dikembe Mutombo - 65th (11.4pts 10.7rebs, 16.0 PER)
Antoine Walker - 50th (19.0pts 7.5rebs 4.3asts, 17.1 PER)
Wally Szczerbiak - 49th (17.7pts 4.5rebs 3.0asts, 17.1 PER)
Honorable Mention:
Baron Davis - 39th (16.1pts 3.8rebs 7.6asts, 18.2 PER)

2002-2003:
First, a side story. Both Brad Miller and Zydrunas Ilgauskas make it because of how the voting is done. Coaches are required to pick a center, and Miller/Ilgauskas split the vote giving them more single votes than any other guard for the two alternate positions. It wasn't like the coaches decided the East needed two centers plus O'Neal and Wallace.
Antoine Walker - 88th (17.5pts 6.3rebs 4.2asts, 14.6 PER)
Ben Wallace - 49th (6.3pts 14.1rebs, 17.2 PER)*
Jamal Mashburn - 40th (19.2pts 5.4rebs 5.0asts, 18.0 PER)

2003-2004:
Steve Francis - 72nd (14.8pts 4.9rebs 5.6asts, 15.8 PER)
Jamaal Magloire - 60th (14.5pts 11.0rebs, 16.5 PER)
Ben Wallace - 53rd (9.1pts 11.9rebs, 17.3 PER) (No * this time, Sheed re-engerized him and that came after the All-Star break.)

2004-2005:
Antawn Jamison - 49th (18.4pts 7.2rebs 2.1asts, 16.9 PER)

2005-2006:
The two Wallace's offensively are 41st and 43rd, but their defense easily leaps them above 40th.

2006-2007:
Mehmet Okur - 50th (19.0pts 7.8rebs 2.1asts, 18.1 PER)
Richard Hamilton - 48th (19.3pts 3.7rebs 3.7asts, 18.1 PER)
Caron Butler - 44th (17.5pts 6.8rebs 3.4asts, 18.3 PER)
(Notice that in the PER's those are easily top 40 (and often top 30) calibur seasons in any other year.)

2007-2008:
Jason Kidd - 70th (10.7pts 7.4rebs 10.0asts, 16.7 PER)
Rasheed Wallace - 64th (15.0pts 7.8rebs 2.1asts, 17.2 PER)
Joe Johnson - 61st (19.2pts 4.0rebs 5.1asts, 17.3 PER)
Richard Hamilton - 46th (18.5pts 3.5rebs 4.4asts, 18.2 PER)

So by Year Rank, modified by PER and with minor adjusts:
1. Antoine Walker - 2003
2. Latrell Sprewell - 2001
3. Steve Francis - 2004
4. Allan Houston - 2001
5. Jamaal Magloire - 2004
6. Allan Houston - 2000
7. Antonio Davis - 2001
8. Antoine Walker - 2002
9. Jason Kidd - 2008
10. Anthony Mason - 2001

LOLOLOLOL at 2001.

I think the guys list is a travesty for ignoring Allan Houston, Antoine Walker and Latrell Sprewell, not to mention Francis' 2004. Remember that Francis was a starter that year. (As Walker was in 2002. And Kidd in 2008.)

[Lamrock]

OMFG
Where I am living...

To be fair, statistically, Fatoine did pretty well for a few years. For instance, in the 2001-2002 season, he averaged 22 ppg, 9 rpg, 5 apg, and 1.5 spg.

On a cool 39%!

Ben's list sounds about right. Surprised 08 Kidd didn't get into the top 5 though.

[benji]

Did Win Shares. Also, all of the above and below are players who played 2000+ minutes. So I've added next to the year how many players this is. (I also only considered players who actually played in the game.)

1999-2000 (120 players):
Glenn Robinson - 86th
Allen Iverson - 45th
Dale Davis - 43rd
Jerry Stackhouse - 38th

2000-2001 (121 players):
Latrell Sprewell - 91st
Glenn Robinson - 60th
Allan Houston - 55th
Antonio Davis - 51st
Vlade Divac - 47th
Antonio McDyess - 45th
Stephon Marbury - 44th

2001-2002 (113 players):
Michael Jordan - 102nd
Steve Francis - 91st
Jermaine O'Neal - 52nd
Antoine Walker - 49th
Allen Iverson - 48th
Vince Carter - 47th
Shareef Abdur-Rahim - 41st

2002-2003 (118 players):
Antoine Walker - 112th
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 76th
Michael Jordan - 66th
Chris Webber - 46th

2003-2004 (129 players):
Allen Iverson - 117th
Vince Carter - 69th
Kenyon Martin - 56th
Ray Allen - 52nd
Steve Francis - 51st
Jason Kidd - 49th
Paul Pierce - 46th
Baron Davis - 43rd
Jamaal Magloire - 42nd
Ron Artest - 39th

2004-2005 (112 players):
Antawn Jamison - 68th
Grant Hill - 48th

2005-2006 (118 players):
Richard Hamilton - 46th

2006-2007 (127 players):
Jermaine O'Neal - 80th
Joe Johnson - 74th
Caron Butler - 66th
Rasheed Wallace - 61st
Ray Allen - 55th
Allen Iverson - 51st

2007-2008 (129 players):
*Dwayne Wade didn't play 2000 minutes, if he had (around two more games) he would've been 109th and there would've been 130 players*
Jason Kidd - 75th
Joe Johnson - 56th
Rasheed Wallace - 52nd
Richard Hamilton - 49th
Brandon Roy - 45th

[Lamrock]

Which method do you prefer? I am not quite as familiar with win shares, but since Fatoine has the most loss shares ever, I know it must be somewhat accurate.

I didn't know Jordan sucked so much in 2002.

[[Q]]

well, he WAS with Krummy Brown and the Wizards...

oh and The STeve Francis pick makes sense. he rode the Yao Ming China train all the way to the allstar game so many times. OVER Gary Payton, I might add.

[benji]

Yeah, it was the worst season of his career. Shot 47% TS while using more possessions than any year but 1986-87. He had 3.2 win shares that season. He had 2.3 in 1994-95. 60 games vs 17.

Didn't help him in WS that the team was also complete crap as well.

Best way to put it Lamrock. Win shares for "impact" and PER for "individual production." Which is why Iverson will have a great PER season (because he uses a lot of possessions) but horrible WS season (they aren't exactly the most efficient possessions).

[Lamrock]

Sounds like a far superior system than PER.