X's Hypothetical Draft Do-overs *1984 Posted*

[Andrew]

I don't remember Elie ever making as big a deal of it either.

[The X]

I might get onto 1985 re-draft tomorrow Andrew....once again, I'm expecting it to be different to yours, although once again not that drastically different....

EDIT: A sad Len Bias' article from ESPN since I just re-did 1986 draft: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=bias

[Andrew]

Looking forward to it. I'm interested to see what decision you'll make when it comes to Ewing and Malone.

[NovU]

yup i'd have taken malone over ewing

[Andrew]

Would it have really changed the Knicks' fortunes though?

[NovU]

i can't say about how knicks could have fared with malone but malone in his career brought his team closer to being the champions on more occasions than ewing did and in more dominant fashion. well... just my 2 cents.

[Jackal]

What an annoying sig.

[Andrew]

i can't say about how knicks could have fared with malone but malone in his career brought his team closer to being the champions on more occasions than ewing did and in more dominant fashion. well... just my 2 cents.

Ewing's Knicks were a Game 7 meltdown away from a championship in 1994 and made the Finals again in 1999, though Ewing was injured during the ECF and sat out the Finals series.

[Jackal]

I wouldn't really call that game a melt down, I'd call it more sheer will on Jordan's part.

The man scored...then stole the inbounds pass. I mean...who does that? He was ready to take off McDaniels head off at one point.

I wish the NBA got physical like that again. It was a hell of a lot more entertaining than watching how many ways a player can throw themselves against another player and the many ways they can fall down.

[Sauru]

personally i go with ewing over malone also

[kinokong]

I wouldn't really call that game a melt down, I'd call it more sheer will on Jordan's part.

The man scored...then stole the inbounds pass. I mean...who does that? He was ready to take off McDaniels head off at one point.

I wish the NBA got physical like that again. It was a hell of a lot more entertaining than watching how many ways a player can throw themselves against another player and the many ways they can fall down.

lol.... i wanna see mcdaniels head taken off also.... lol

[Andrew]

I wouldn't really call that game a melt down, I'd call it more sheer will on Jordan's part.

Jordan wasn't playing in 1994, that was the year they had the Game 7 collapse against Hakeem's Rockets in the Finals.

[The X]

1985 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)

1. New York: C- Patrick Ewing (picked #1)

Let me just say from the outset, that Karl Malone is without a doubt the best prospect to come out of this draft. However that being said, I can't see the Knicks changing their mind, since the Mailman never showed he was anymore likely to bring them a title in the Jordan era than Ewing. There's no guarantee either that Malone would've been as successful without his running mate, John Stockton. So I'm keeping Ewing here, by default.

2. Indiana: PF- Karl Malone (picked #13)

The Pacers were in dire need of a PF, although I won't be re-drafting college standout Wayman Tisdale at this spot to fill that void. Instead the Pacers will take the 2nd greatest PF of All-Time (provided you consider Duncan a PF & not a centre) and quickly cement the Pacers as a playoff contender and additional playoff fodder for the Celtics then eventually the Bulls.

3. LA Clippers: SG- Joe Dumars (picked #18)

Sadly for the Clippers there is a drop-off after the top 2, but they shouldn't fret, as there is still very good talent on offer. They won't re-draft Benoit Benjamin, who at his best, was a solid starting centre. The Clips want & need a centre, but none are worthy of this pick. I'm torn on this pick between Mullin & Dumars, but Clips are already set well at SF, so Joe Dumars is the pick. He's a consumate professional, so he's probably good for the Clippers' organisation. Although I hate to see Dumars go this high, nobody really makes anymore sense at this spot.

4. Seattle: SF- Chris Mullin (picked #7)

The Sonics were in need of a starting SF. While X Man was very good in Seattle, Mullin was better over his career, so can't go past Chris Mullin at this spot.

5. Atlanta: PF- Charles Oakley (picked #9)

Definitely not Jon Koncak This one is between 3 players, Charles Oakley, Terry Porter & X McDaniel. I would love for X to go here, they already have Nique at SF & a solid backup. Porter is also intriguing to deepen their backcourt. But in the end, I'm unfortunately following Andrew's re-draft. They drafted Koncak originally for a reason, help & toughness inside. Charles Oakley provides that, & they'll need it when going against the Celtics.

6. Sacramento: PG- Terry Porter (picked #24)

I once again expected X McDaniel to be my man. When I took a look at Kings' roster, they were pretty stocked at most positions but starting PG. Makes too much sense to pass on Porter at this juncture. He's about as solid as they come & even was a 2-time All-Star in the early 1990's.

7. Golden State: SF- Xavier McDaniel (picked #4)

The Warriors needed frontcourt help & fortunately for them, the best available guy left on the board is X, who fills a big void. McDaniel was a 20ppg during the first half of his career & he makes missing out on Chris Mullin more bearable. X narrowly beats out Detlef Schrempf who won't fall past 8.


Toughest omissions (& Honorable mentions): Wayman Tisdale (#2), Detlef Schrempf (#8), A.C. Green (#23), Hot Rod Williams (#45), Gerald Wilkins (#47), Michael Adams (#66).

Biggest flops: Jon Koncak (#5), Joe Kleine (#6), Keith Lee (#11).


At least my last pick differentiated me from my namesake Andrew. I think main difference for us was I had Xavier McDaniel rated a lot higher on my board & if situation had of granted it, he could've gone as high as 5, but I'm happy with where I've got him, just edging out the German. Nellie wasn't Golden State coach at time or season after draft, so I didn't factor him into the equation. As for Benoit Benjamin, he might've been a flop, but his career was still a helluva lot better than those other 3 guys mentioned above.

That concludes all the draft lotteries. I'm guessing people will be wanting a 1984 re-draft, if so, I'm sure I can put one together tomorrow. Cheers.

[Andrew]

I forgot about Hot Rod. I wouldn't put him in the top seven but he's definitely worth an honourable mention. There was some noteworthy talent in that Draft, too bad it was spread out as far as the seventh round.

[Jackal]

Jordan wasn't playing in 1994, that was the year they had the Game 7 collapse against Hakeem's Rockets in the Finals.

Oh, my bad, I didn't read the "meltdown away from a championship".

I thought you were talking about the year when Bulls had to take the Knicks to 7 games after cruising to a 3 game sweep of the Heat. Again, my bad.

[The X]

1984 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)

1. Houston: C- Akeem Olajuwon (picked #1)

If the Rockets are picking based on need, they take Michael Jordan. If the Rockets are picking based on best available talent, they take Michael Jordan. Yet, I'm 99% happy with the Rockets sticking with their original pick & taking Akeem Olajuwon. Hakeem's career with the Rockets was much like his nickname, a dream. He led them to 2 titles out of 3 NBA Finals' appearances. In his prime, I don't recall a better big man in the league at the time, Shaq included. In my eyes, he's a Top 5 All-Time player at the centre position. I can't see Rockets not taking him at this spot.

2. Portland: SG- Michael Jordan (picked #3)

I can see why the Blazers took Sam Bowie. In hindsight, it was obviously the wrong pick. Despite not being an overpowering offensive player (Thorn's words, not mine), the Blazers won't pass on the arguably the greatest player in NBA history. It doesn't matter that they took Clyde "The Glide" Drexler a year before, I think they're both good enough to play beside each other, with Drexler at the SF position. Boy this pick would've changed NBA history & the Bulls wouldn't be most everybody's favourite team.

3. Chicago: PF- Charles Barkley (picked #5)

As good as John Stockton would become & one of the top 5 PG's of All-Time, the Bulls will not pass on the immediate impact, new go-to-guy in Charles Barkley, who himself is top 5 in his position of All-Time. The Bulls did have a vacancy at PF & the undersized 'Round Mound of Rebound' (his height was somewhere between 6'4" & 6'6") would've without a doubt helped turn the franchise around.

4. Dallas: PG- John Stockton (picked #16)

The top 4 are that good & that far ahead of the rest of the players in this draft, that it didn't matter if Mavs needed a PG or not (they did), they have to take John Stockton. Stockton ranks as one of my favourite players to watch. He was just a pleasure. I got more enjoyment out of watching him play than any of the 3 above him (Hakeem would be 2nd, then MJ 3rd, Barkley 4th). As for this pick, this would've been a foundation pick that would've laid the groundwork for continued Mavs' success.

5. Philadelphia: SG- Alvin Robertson (picked #7)

Dr J, Moses Malone, Andrew Toney & Maurice Cheeks. What a starting lineup. All they are missing is a starting PF. Unfortunately for them Barkley is gone, but they do have the choice between 1-time All-Stars Otis Thorpe & Kevin Willis or college star Sam Perkins. Normally it would be between those 3, especially with the 76ers had a closing window of opportunity to win another title. However, in reality, their window had probably already closed. I say the 76ers take the best available player in SG Alvin Robertson, who toiled his career away in relative obscurity, despite being a 4-time All-Star with a career average of 2.7spg. I think by his 2nd season, he'll have relegated Andrew Toney to the bench.

6. Washington: PF- Otis Thorpe (picked #9)

The Bullets were very solid in the backcourt, but needed frontcourt help. Back to Thorpe, Willis & Perkins we go. This was probably the toughest pick I had to make. Going back & forth, I end up settling on Otis Thorpe edging out Sam Perkins. Thorpe would be solid double-double guy most of his career & would have the Bullets.

7. San Antonio: PF/C- Kevin Willis (picked #11)

Once again it comes down to the PF being the greatest need, since Spurs were solid in other spots with Geore Gervin, Artis Gilmore, John Lucas & Mike Mitchell. I'm going Kevin Willis this time, mainly due to him fitting Spurs a little better & the fact that he can also play a bit more centre than the 6'9" Perkins.


Toughest omissions (& Honorable mentions): Sam Perkins (#4), Vern Fleming (#18), Jerome Kersey (#46), Carl Lewis (#208).

Biggest flops: Sam Bowie (#2), Melvin Turpin (#6), Lancaster Gordon (#8).


Great top 4, picks 5 through 8 (Perkins at 8) are solid, but after that, not as deep a draft as some might've thought (me included).

I think that concludes my re-drafts. I was only going to do back to the start of the draft lotteries (1985), but since 1984 was a notable draft, I decided to end on that note. Hope you have all enjoyed, been enlightened (or not) & hopefully learned a little bit more about the history of the NBA.

Cheers.

[Jackal]

It's not that unbelievable that Jordan wouldn't be picked number 1. Jordan wasn't "great" coming in to the league, what made him great was his work ethic. He honed his skills over the course of years, not like he was wham bam the greatest ever right out of the gates.

Nice to see you didn't pass on the Dream for Jordan's greatness.

Kind of off topic (sorry X) but all those guys that are asking for advice on becoming a better player in the General Talk section, look at Jordan...his jumpshot was a weakness, he didnt go around asking what to do...he worked on the game and perfected his shot...so yeah, it's about the work.

[Andrew]

Interesting picks. I can see the logic in keeping The Dream at #1 since he did go on to have a successful career with the Rockets that as you noted yielded two championships, but it seems to me if these draft do-overs are being done with the benefit of foresight, surely the Rockets wouldn't be so eager to pass over a player who is widely considered the greatest player in history (and if not the greatest, certainly one of the greatest).

That's not to say they went wrong with Olajuwon, but if Michael Jordan is one of the greatest of all-time, one of the players who you'd pick in their prime if you were starting a team, then surely he's got to go first in his own (re-)Draft. Just my opinion, admittedly not without its bias.

[NovU]

imo, mj himself was bigger than any franchise in name value wise. any team hate to pass on player like mj no matter who was needed.

[The X]

I can see what most of you mean about putting MJ number 1. If it was like real life drafts, Jordan would go number 1 & the Rockets could trade him for number 2 & a whole bunch of pieces & draft picks. But I'm content with the pick. It's a really tough pick. From a basketball standpoint, I think Rockets stick with Olajuwon. From a marketing & merchandise standpoint, the Rockets would have to take MJ. So I am torn on it.

Although if I put MJ at number 1 in 1984, using the same logic, I'd have to put Karl Malone at number 1 in 1985, Kobe Bryant in 1996 (probably the pick that I'd now most likely change, with Iverson going number 2 & Nash number 3) & so on.

My re-drafts definitely have flaws, & obviously clearly have bias involved, but I tried my best to remove myself from that. I guess the way I see it, you put MJ on Rockets, maybe he doesn't win all those titles & just goes down as the greatest player to never win a title, which would mean he would not be considered best ever. If I'm re-drafting & I know that I'm definitely going to get 3 Finals appearances & 2 titles out of a player, or potentially go for broke, it's a tough call. Although if I'm an owner, I take MJ due to $$$'s.

I guess in the end, I'd have to pass this question along to longtime Rockets' fans. I'd imagine that they would still take Dream at number 1, & for me, that seals the deal. Same with Knicks & Ewing. Not as sure on Philly with Iverson over hometown boy Kobe though. I was more sure back then, but I'd probably backflip on that pick & take Kobme.

[Andrew]

Although if I put MJ at number 1 in 1984, using the same logic, I'd have to put Karl Malone at number 1 in 1985, Kobe Bryant in 1996 (probably the pick that I'd now most likely change, with Iverson going number 2 & Nash number 3) & so on.

Not necessarily. With Malone and Ewing, you'd be trading zero rings for zero rings. The course of history arguably wouldn't have been altered that much. Perhaps the same would be true if the Rockets had picked Michael Jordan, he might have been as great individually but never won as many championships (or any championships) but if we're trading accomplishments for accomplishments, then I think the Rockets would have to go with Jordan.

[kinokong]

lol the re-draft is done based on hindsight and taking all the accomplishment an individual has performed in the league so jordan should probally go number 1.

[benji]

John Stockton would become & one of the top 5 PG's of All-Time

Top five? There were better point guards not 6-9?

Although Dennis Rodman is probably best available, the high octane Warriors don't want a defensive minded player (as much as they might need one), so they'll look for the best offensive player available

So, they'd still take Rodman? I think we're forgetting Rodman's earlier career, where he shot above 56% five times in six years. Including 61% in back to back years. Over his entire career he led the league in offensive rebounding seven times and finished second three other times.

Person averaged a lot of points because he used twice as many possessions, often 24% or more. That 1986 Warriors team already had Short and Carroll jacking up shots above that rate, with Floyd, Teagle and Mullin all over 21%. The team was 21st out of 23 on defense. (They finished the same place on offense and defense in both 1986 and 1987.)

A combination of Larry Smith and Dennis Rodman on the offensive glass? Far better than a lousy gunner who couldn't and wouldn't play defense even if he could.

I'd easily take Hornacek over both Person and Harper.

[The X]

lol the re-draft is done based on hindsight and taking all the accomplishment an individual has performed in the league so jordan should probally go number 1.

I know there have been a few articles on it, but I thought I'd have my own thread that I would update with who I think should have gone in the lottery each year....compared to a lot of other people's opinions, I'm not going to list the top 13 or 14 players from each draft class, I'm going to try & put myself in the mind of what each respective team needed & were after in that draft, & work from there....I'll start with the current draft lottery & work backwards....obviously the further back I go, the easier it should be in hindsight....I'll start with the most recent drafts, the 2007 NBA Drafts respectively....

the above is quoted from the first post in this thread....it is not about listing who is the best player in the draft class & ordering....or did you not read the first post of the thread?!?

it was a tough call putting Dream first over MJ....I'm still waiting for any long-time Rockets' fans (if there are any) to enter & tell me in a heartbeat they take MJ over Dream, even if it means he doesn't win any titles & bolts town or is traded 5 years later....

I guess I'm sentimental in my picks at times....otherwise there is no way I put Ewing ahead of Malone, there is no way than Iverson goes ahead of Kobe, & there is no way Dream goes ahead of MJ....

in the end, if we're talking about rating people on accomplishments, Bill Russell must be the greatest NBA player of All-Time....all the titles, he was the main cog....I wouldn't rate him as best of All-Time, just the best player on the best (dynasty) team of All-Time....

I guess in the end, it's my opinion....and my opinion offers sentimentality....if you don't want it, I wouldn't mind seeing other people create threads with their re-drafts, ranking the classes....either way, I guess I find mine more enjoyable as it creates debate & questions the grey, rather than just looking at the black & white....

I guess we can agree to disagree....as I said earlier, if I was picking, I would take MJ in a heartbeat due to the merchandise, $$$ making potential, not for the bball skills....but I was drafting from Houston Rockets' perspective, not from my own....only the Rockets' organisation could answer this question, & I'm sure they wouldn't tell truth if they did prefer MJ anyways....

[[Q]]

i can't wait for the Bob Cousy draft and my Tri Cities Blackhawks.