Chicago Bulls Thread

[air gordon]

my apologies- i've been busy working 2 jobs for the upcoming wedding...way to keep the thread alive... again, andrew there are other bulls fans at this forum, right? hehe

i've only watched a few games as of late- the win against the Jazz a few weeks ago & and the loss against the sixers. i started watching the hornets game but i had a feeling what the outcome of that one was going to be.

the team blowing leads in the 4th is reminiscent of the Crawford-Hinrich-Rose-Chandler-Curry days. they played well enough for about 3.5qtrs but due to their inexperience, they'd choke. there really isn't any excuse for this bunch

is it quite possible that Lebron James was holding back Drew Gooden? LOL the guy has been on a tear since donning a bulls uni.

seems like Boylan is coaching to save his job so Tyrus Thomas won't be getting any consistent minutes

bye bye duhon

[Andrew]

my apologies- i've been busy working 2 jobs for the upcoming wedding...way to keep the thread alive... again, andrew there are other bulls fans at this forum, right? hehe

A lot of the regulars have been a lot less regular lately, for various reasons. I'm guessing the losing has a little bit to do with that, there doesn't seem like a whole lot to talk about right now except how disappointed we are game-to-game.

the team blowing leads in the 4th is reminiscent of the Crawford-Hinrich-Rose-Chandler-Curry days. they played well enough for about 3.5qtrs but due to their inexperience, they'd choke. there really isn't any excuse for this bunch

I agree, they've had a few years together now so they should have kicked the habit. Obviously they're still lacking in a few areas but they're capable of building these leads and then they just switch off. I watched the games against Memphis and Cleveland earlier this month, both enjoyable games but I couldn't shake the feeling they'd give up their leads in both games until the Grizzlies and Cavaliers called it quits in garbage time.

[Ashman23]

Looks like we're headed to the lottery. Can't see much light at the end of the tunnel for this lot, it's going to be an interesting off-season. Boylan needs to fall down a deep dark hole.

[Andrew]

The rest of this season looks bleak but I don't think the future is quite as gloomy. Just how promising it is depends on whether they can find a better coach, what deals can be made and how the kind fate will be when it comes to the lottery. Some members of the core group are the same players who made the Playoffs three straight years so while this season has been a disappointment that doesn't mean the roster is a lost cause. There are definite weaknesses and they've underachieved this season but I don't think change has to mean blow everything up.

[Donatello]

There are definite weaknesses and they've underachieved this season but I don't think change has to mean blow everything up.

But I'm afraid it will (blow everything up).

Feel free to toss Luol Deng and somebody to Portland for LaFrentz.

[Andrew]

I still think it would be a tremendous mistake if that's Pax's intention, though it would be in line with trading Aldridge and signing Wallace. Hopefully, he's not so desperate as to swap Deng for LaFrentz.

[benji]

I have to say I disagree.

The Bulls need to prepare for rebuilding. The team is still an offensive disaster, with two and a half contract anchors for the short-term. If they resign Gordon and Deng to any sort of longterm deal, their future is shot. They'll have three players taking up half their cap space who are not going to be stars, and were only good players during their fluke hot shooting season last year. But they'll still be good enough to start, and thus take up 3/5ths of the starting lineup, ensuring their per game stats will look solid so "no need to replace them" will be the thinking.

When their defense fails, as it did this year, the Bulls fall into the gutter because they struggle to score. Thomas and Sefolosha used their second season to leap right into playing as well as their rookie seasons. Noah, like Thomas last season, is their lone bright spot.

Blow it up, they had their shot and blew it by botching the Chandler deal. I like Gooden, but you can't build a team around him or anyone else on the squad.

Send Gordon and Deng for Redd. It'll make fans of both teams feel good for a few minutes.

[Andrew]

Send Gordon and Deng for Redd. It'll make fans of both teams feel good for a few minutes.

Wouldn't a short term solution defeat the purpose of rebuilding though?

I guess it depends on your approach is to "blowing up" a team. Do you give away all the talent for lesser players/expiring contracts and suffer through some lottery seasons to start over from scratch? That seems a bit wasteful to me. If you're talking about trying to eliminate weaknesses and taking some risks in trying to acquire talent then that would be preferable. But if back to the drawing board means back to the lottery for five or six years, that just seems like a waste to me.

[benji]

I mean, yes, give away the faux-talent that will never be good enough to contend for expiring contracts and "unproven" players including a gaggle of NBDLers. Stockpile draft picks like crazy. The Sonics have a bright future, city issues and a couple smaller contracts hanging around aside, because of that sort of plan.

They're going to be in the lottery for five or six years anyway if they drop Hinrich style contracts on Gordon and Deng. Assuming, of course, that the East acquires more talent.

If they make moves to "eliminate weaknesses and...acquire talent" none of these players will be left anyway. And they'll have to rely on unproven players and draft picks to build up the bench anyhow.

[Andrew]

If they make moves to "eliminate weaknesses and...acquire talent" none of these players will be left anyway. And they'll have to rely on unproven players and draft picks to build up the bench anyhow.

So in your opinion, the roster is complete rubbish and none of the players are worth keeping? I guess my view isn't exactly unbiased but I tend to have a higher opinion of the roster than that though I certainly won't deny it's a team that's a long way from being a contender.

Don't get me wrong, I do see the advantages of starting over. It just seems a bit wasteful after years of floundering and finally putting together a team that has been capable of making the Playoffs three straight years to go ahead and give up all those players without trying to get some talent in return. In any event, I don't much relish the thought of them being lottery bound for another stretch of five or six years no matter what circumstances lead them there.

[benji]

I would keep Thomas and Noah to the end of their rookie contracts. I would not keep the rest of the team as their salaries are going to outpace their values by the end of the next offseason. Gordon, Deng and Hinrich all play like they peaked two years ago, and will most likely be overpaid when next season starts. I'd only keep Gordon if he stopped taking so many two point jumpers, and started playing more like Chauncey Billups in terms of shot selection.

The team made the playoffs for three straight years, in the past, due to circumstances in those years. Because a team made the playoffs in the past, does not mean they will make the playoffs in the years to follow.

Yes, I consider teams that cannot score to be "rubbish." The teams with winning records this year in the bottom half of the league? Houston, Philadelphia and Cleveland. And it's not like they're too horrible, they're 16-17-18. Since the merger, only twice has a team in the bottom half of the league in scoring won a title. And the Bulls are no longer dominant defensively.

I'd rather horde draft picks and unproven talent, than keep a bunch of overpaid half-stars to keep winning 30-40 games. You can make the move now before getting trapped with Gordon and Deng on longterm deals, or you can kick the can down the road two years waiting for Hughes to expire.

It's best to be flexible, instead of sticking to a rigid roster trying to relive "glory" days. You want to do like the Spurs, and the mid-90s Bulls.

[Andrew]

I do see the merits of starting over, I won't deny the team has problems. It just doesn't make the thought of five or six more years struggling to a lottery pick any more appealing, necessary or not.

[benji]

If they keep the roster as is, and nobody suffers a complete paradigm shift into stardom, they're in the lottery. If they change it, there is a possibility they will have to spend a couple years in the lottery, or there is the chance they can ascend back to the top of the conference.

In order to keep the Deng-Gordon-Hinrich trio, they have to add a frontcourt star. They can't add a frontcourt star without trading parts of the trio, or through the draft. Or by grabbing a star everyone else ignored like they did with Brad Miller.

The Curry and Crawford deals were good deals because they were dumping non-stars to make room for unproven talent and draft picks.

[Andrew]

I realise that. I just don't relish the idea of them wallowing in the lottery for a few seasons. Obviously with the draft picks they'd be getting it could be for the best but I'd find it a bit disheartening to watch at the same time. I realise the same fate would seem to await them if they don't make any changes, I'm just saying the thought of them being in the lottery - especially for five years or more - isn't very appealing, no matter the circumstances for being there.

I agree that the Curry and Crawford deals were good, though they messed up on getting the second pick. I wouldn't call Thomas a bust per se, surely he's entitled to more of a chance before he can fairly be given that tag but trading away Aldridge wasn't a brilliant move. If the Bulls do horde draft picks, hopefully they won't be squandered.

[shadowgrin]

Interesting discussion. Now where's air gordon?

The Bulls future do seem intriguing. Their core players of Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng doesn't seem like superstars or franchise players (for the near future) but their salary sure looks like to be headed that way as early as next season. Even when the Bulls were winning in the past almost everyone agrees that they need a post presence (and they get Ben Wallace lol). Assuming they keep the three and have the corresponding "franchise player" salaries, the Bulls won't have enough cap space to get a true "franchise" type player or surround the core with other dependable players, much even a star post player (as benji mentioned). Worst case scenario is that they end up with three Larry Hughes type contracts. No matter how to look at it, the Bulls will eventually need to break up their core trio just to get a star post player (Drew Gooden is not sufficient to fill that hole) or acquire a franchise player (also assuming that none of the three develops in to one).

Another scenario is that the Bulls doesn't need a superstar, that Gooden and Noah is enough for their frontcourt, and the other players contribute enough help to the core trio (who still have huge contracts just to keep them). Think Sixers this season. With that scenario that Bulls are still going to be worse because they have 3 big contracts that bind them down as compared to the Sixers who "only" have Dalembert's huge contract. Even if we include Iguodala's upcoming payday, the Sixers only have 2 big contracts as compared to the Bulls 3 huge contracts just to keep the trio, which none of the three are post players, offensive or defensive-wise.

[Andrew]

Gooden's a player I'd like to see them try and hold onto and Noah's future seems promising but at this point I wouldn't rely on that to solve the scoring problems in the post. If it comes to trading either Gordon, Hinrich or Deng, at this point I'd still choose Hinrich and try playing Gordon as a de facto point guard. Hinrich isn't a bad point guard by any means but his shot selection is a bit iffy and he still strikes me of being more of a combo guard. If that's the kind of player the Bulls want to have at the point, I'd take Gordon's scoring punch.

Depending on how the ping pong balls bounce, the Bulls could have a top three pick to work with, perhaps even trading it. As it stands, they're currently looking at a top ten pick with their record.

[Ashman23]

Gee, looking back, who would have liked to have seen Kobe come in. Might be a completely different story now. Not to dwell on the 'could of'.

I think coming to trading Hinrich's probably got the most value and a high pick might be enough to bring in someone who can pull the others together and get things back on track.

[Andrew]

It can be disheartening to get caught up in such what-ifs but when it comes to Kobe, it depends on the players it would have taken to get the deal done. If the Lakers would have taken Ben Wallace a deal would have been easier but assuming they were ever interested in trading Kobe to the Bulls - even for a split second when the trade demands came out - they could have asked for a lot in return, and rightfully so.

Paxson might have been interested but I don't know if the Lakers ever genuinely were. And even if they were, the amount of talent going the other way it could have taken to get the deal done could have left the Bulls with Kobe and not much else, leaving them more or less in the same boat (perhaps Playoff bound, however).

[benji]

the amount of talent going the other way it could have taken to get the deal done could have left the Bulls with Kobe and not much else, leaving them more or less in the same boat (perhaps Playoff bound, however).

Having Kobe Bryant at his salary, is better than any combination of Bulls players at the same salary. Knowing what we know now, a Gordon-Hinrich-Thomas offer should've been made in a heartbeat.

[Andrew]

Would that have worked under the salary cap? I remember running a few of the proposed scenarios at the time through the Trade Checker and most of the ones that didn't involve Ben Wallace failed.

[Ashman23]

Anyway, not to cry over spilled milk.

What were they thinking winning in Cleveland, lol. At least some of the younger guys got a great run.

[Andrew]

That was a great finish, though they were pretty fortunate considering how many offensive rebounds they were giving up and Gordon's offensive foul late in the game could have easily set the stage for some LeBron heroics. It's bittersweet as it's too late for one last push (which would require the teams immediately ahead of them to completely falter anyway) but it's nice to see them steal a victory from a winning team and not give up, even though they don't have much to play for except salvaging a bit of pride through the final weeks of the season.

[Andrew]

Gordon will sign with Bulls, seek free agency after next season

It's just a rumour but I'd be sorry to see it happen. However, if he's after ridiculous money - ridiculous by NBA standards, at any rate - then that does put the Bulls in a tough position. I still think Gordon is a little underrated in comparison to the rest of the Bulls as he's shared in the responsibility for their successes as much as their shortcomings the last three years but a max deal would not be a wise investment.

If he's got to go though, at least try to get something in return. Picks, expiring contracts, some other young player with potential who is a couple of years away from demanding big money. He's not an All-Star but he's too good to give up for nothing.

[Ashman23]

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profile ... brook.html

NBA draft net have us projected to take Russell Westbrook. I know, I know , it's early but I like his highlight film

[Dan's Brain]

Bah, it's not too early. What else have we got to look forward to?

I think if the Bulls were to take Westbrook, it would absolutely spell the end of Ben Gordon's time in Chicago.

I'm hoping that the Bulls are able to get a higher pick than is being projected so they can take Brook Lopez. He'd work well beside Noah