NLSC Current Roster Patch Issues

Discussion about NBA Live 2003.

NLSC Current Roster Patch Issues

Postby Andrew on Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:37 pm

Since I'll have the game soon and will commence work on roster patches after I play the game a bit, I thought I should create a thread for your suggestions and feedback for the NBA Live 2003 NLSC Current Roster Update.

There are a few issues that need to be discussed at this juncture.

TWEAKED ROSTERS

For my NBA Live 2001 current roster update, I provide both a regular and tweaked version of the rosters. The regular version works fine for simulated player, and yields decent gameplay. The tweaked version, which uses coefficients that produce "odd" ratings (some of which are not between 50 and 99) does a good job of overcoming some gameplay issues, but is unsuitable for simulated stats (so basically, it's not recommended for season/franchise mode).

It seems that the gameplay in Live 2003 is considered by most to be too fast, and that various tweaks have slowed the game and made it more enjoyable for some. Because it is a different game, I can't use the same coefficients Kq and I used to tweak the Live 2001 rosters.

So my question is, would you prefer that I make a current roster update with two versions of the rosters, one regular and one tweaked (as I do with Live 2001) or simply provide a single current roster update using the best tweaks?

REAL SALARIES

Pretty straightforward. It's possible to edit the salary cap and player salaries so that they reflect their real life counterparts. This adds realism at the expense of a simplified salary system in Franchise Mode. Real salaries, yes or no?

INSTALLATION

I've got the necessary software to create Windows setup files rather than the MS-DOS batch (.bat) files, which some users may find easier to use. It also avoids the problem of some users not being able to install the rosters using an MS-DOS bat file. Your thoughts?

IGNORING INJURIES?

Previously, NLSC roster patches have featured another option - realistic active rosters which take into account injuries and real lineups/rotations, and simply updated rosters, with what the patchmaker perceives to be the best starting lineup. The "Active" version was for users who are looking for total realism, the other version was suited to Franchise Mode, and users who aren't looking for realistic lineups, but want missing players added. Good idea? Bad Idea? You tell me.

PLAYERS ON IR ARE PLAYABLE

Should players on the IR in the real NBA be unplayable in the current roster update? Right now, if a player is placed on the IR in the real NBA, it is reflected in the roster patch, but if the users chooses to do so, they can simply ignore the real-life injury and activate the player. So, should injured players be unplayable? Or should it remain as it is now, left up to the player how much realism they incorporate into their season/franchise?

That's about all for now, thank you in advance for helping me to create the roster update your are after.
Last edited by Andrew on Mon Jan 27, 2003 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ChochHolla on Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:55 pm

is that too time consuming for you guys to make that many different types of roster patches?
cuz i know i would like tweaked rosters and IR playable, but as you said it isnt for everyone... i was just asking.. b/c it seems that it would take a lot to keep track of that many types....
o yea... can you tell us (if you make a tweaked version) what was reduced and by roughly how much... that usually helps me.
Thanks.
the new site is excellent.
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Postby Nick on Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:26 pm

Good on 'ya Andrew, 'Customer's are always right' stratergy, that's the way to go...(this is where i would normally use a 'thumbs up' icon...*hint hint* :D)

Well here's my votes...hope it helps...

would you prefer that I make a current roster update with two versions of the rosters, one regular and one tweaked (as I do with Live 2001) or simply provide a single current roster update using the best tweaks?

If it's no trouble...i'd prefer to have a one tweaked and one normal.
Real salaries, yes or no?

Yes.
I've got the necessary software to create Windows setup files rather than the MS-DOS batch (.bat) files, which some users may find easier to use. It also avoids the problem of some users not being able to install the rosters using an MS-DOS bat file. Your thoughts?

Well i like the .bat file because it's simple...But if it's easier to use that program that you have, the do so...as long as it will work for all users (i'm sure you've thought it through actually) ...Well, my opinion, Cool...setup files are professional...*thumbs up*
(Can i have a link of where to download this program?)

IGNORING INJURIES?

Previously, NLSC roster patches have featured another option - realistic active rosters which take into account injuries and real lineups/rotations, and simply updated rosters, with what the patchmaker perceives to be the best starting lineup. The "Active" version was for users who are looking for total realism, the other version was suited to Franchise Mode, and users who aren't looking for realistic lineups, but want missing players added. Good idea? Bad Idea? You tell me.

PLAYERS ON IR ARE PLAYABLE

Should players on the IR in the real NBA be unplayable in the current roster update? Right now, if a player is placed on the IR in the real NBA, it is reflected in the roster patch, but if the users chooses to do so, they can simply ignore the real-life injury and activate the player. So, should injured players be unplayable? Or should it remain as it is now, left up to the player how much realism they incorporate into their season/franchise?
Well, yes and no...

Yes, Placing players on the IR list with injuries is ultimate realism...'tis good...But only if you are one who downloads the patch regulary...

No, Placing players on the IR list is a bad idea when you prefer to have the original teams. Starting a franchise isn't as fun when you have your best player injured...although it is real...

My opinion, well i don't know why, but i'd prefer to have the 'injrured players on IR' taken out of the patch, i know everybody will disagree...but they aren't injured forever, i only download the patch once and make the change myself...but for other it's different...
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Postby macbit on Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:28 pm

He Andrew,

take to old ratings and stats from Roster patch nba01 and lower the speed
Also check out what can we do with the rookie draft probem.....( the computer generated the sh....t high rise ratings.

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Postby The Icon on Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:35 pm

a lot of questions andrew. my software store guy ordered the australian version for me, so i'll be stuck waiting, just like you. You should provide two versions of the rosters like you used to. i want cool season gameplay. i never used the tweaked ratings in Live 2001. injured players should be usable. you guys never did a day to day update of the rosters. i wouldn't want to wait a week to use my favourite player, once he comes off the IL in real NBA. don't change something that has been working for years.
people can just check the teams rosters on nba.com if they want to know who is injured. also, don't change the speed too much. i love the demo gameplay. i am sure however, that the nlsc rosters will be as good as it gets, as always.

looking forward to downloading your first 2003 rosters!
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Postby Verik on Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:45 pm

I believe the speed issue is in the players hand if u start running and gunning they will do the same but if u build up your plays and dont take foolish shots they will almost always do the same. The only time they really start turning it up is when they are behind by 10 in the 4th Q. Same goes for the fastbreaks i get like 4 or 5 fastbreaks against me on allstar on a close game and ofcourse more if i am behind and taking the wrong shots.
The thing that has to be fixed is ending games with 65-70% fg%.

As for injuries big injuries like shaq's should be included cause they have a big influence but if somebody is only injured for a week u should just let him in.
And if i saw correctly in the database its possible to give ppl a injury for a period of time so its not needed to remove them from the realistic patch.

But my #1 advice is play the game for a week and check for yourself cause i just believe alot of ppl dont know how to play D so they want everything editted down so they can keep up and well thats not the way ppl should play a game.
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Postby Andrew on Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:00 pm

Injuries will still be reflected in the rosters - if a player is injured in real-life and is placed on the IR, then I will update the rosters accordingly (as always). The issue here is whether I should also change their ISPLAYABLE attribute, so they cannot be activated from the IR. So the real-life lineups/rotations/IR will always be recognised. I'd just like to know if people would like me to actually edit players so the game recognises them as being unplayable, as some other patchmakers have apparently done.

is that too time consuming for you guys to make that many different types of roster patches?


Not at all. The tweaked version is the same as the regular version, but I make global changes to the ratings using the MegaModifier (a feature of the Toolkit). It's also easy to save a version of the current rosters that ignores injuries and actual lineups to provide an alternate version. It's no real hassle to provide a few different current roster files, but if there isn't any interest in having the alternate versions, I won't bother providing them.
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Postby greenmig on Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:43 pm

Hi Andrew,

I have been playing the game now for 3 days & my major gripes are;

1. game speed too fast
2. fg% & 3pt% too high
3. cpu ai on D is stoopid wrt steals...they go for too many & get too many fouls.
4. blocking too high

I have been tweaking my roster to try & fix this & I think that the you should consider the following to help fix the above;

1. reduce speed & quickness
2. reduce fg%, 3pt% & offensive awareness
3. reduce steals but leave def awareness as is...too reduce offensive output
4. reduce blocking & jumping a little 8)

Apart from the above, I reckon the game is real cool...once we get the right tweaking and get a handle on the controls live2k3 will be awesome. Fast breaking is generally not an issue if you get your man back...& lets face it, in the NBA if you dont it is jam city down the other end.

In any patch you release, most ipmortant to me is roster accuracy, (ie: right players on each team & right rotation order).

As for your questions, my answers are as follows;

"Would you prefer that I make a current roster update with two versions of the rosters, one regular and one tweaked (as I do with Live 2001) or simply provide a single current roster update using the best tweaks?"

Yes please andrew I would very much like two versions of the roster update, one regular & one tweaked, (keeps everyone happy :wink: )

"Real salaries, yes or no?"

Yes please.

"Ignoring injuries, good idea, bad idea?"

Yes please make sure that you add all injuries...excatly as per the transactions in nba.com in your patches.

Really look forward to the roster updates.
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Postby Andrew on Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:54 pm

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming. :) But like I said before, I'm talking about providing another version of the rosters that ignores all injuries (suitable for those who want to start a Franchise ignoring the real NBA lineups/injury situations). In the regular and tweaked versions, injuries would still be recognised, but there would be an "Injured" version of the rosters.
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Postby hetoft on Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:16 pm

Hi Andrew!

I never use the tweaked rosters for live 2001, but i think i will for 2003.
So include 'em both if it isn't that hard for you.

And yeah, use the real salaries. It makes it more fun when you get the hang of it :)

Is it even possible to make a Wndows install instead of a Dos? It would be great!

I think you should make the injuries like you did with 2k1. Make them reserves, so the user always can add them back into the lineup.

Also, if it's possible to add legends, please add Mikan, McAdoo, Abdul-Jabbar, Drexler, Dumars, Rodman and maybe Larry Johnson (like in 2k1).

Keep up the good work! :)
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Postby nmje2k1 on Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:50 pm

Real Salaries - Yes!
Both tweaked and regular rosters
batch file - doesn't matter whatever is easier for you
IR - just like you did for Live 2001
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Postby k8 on Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:02 pm

it would be better to have both the updated rosters and the tweaked rosters so that we can have an option on what to use.
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Postby sccommish on Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:29 pm

Andrew,

I have played the game for a week now and find it to be a potentially great game. It does need several adjustments. I hope you are able to address them.

Tweaking - I have noticed several things, many which have already been mentioned. In addition to the high FG and 3PT %, there are few to no offensive rebounds. I think this needs to be addressed. Blocking is much to high as has been stated. It's just not realistic. In your patch, a normal and tweaked would be great.

Real Salaries - Yes

Installation - I like the DOS version.

Injuries - Yes, they should be taken into account.

Unplayable - No

Thanks for asking for input.

Skip






[/b]
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Postby D1X1NG on Sat Nov 23, 2002 11:20 pm

well I cant say for all of us but I want total realism so I want injuries to be taken into account.
I believe u know what to do in the roster updates so I have nothing to say that will provide new information except for keep the injuried players out to bring more realism !
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Postby mcbiggins on Sun Nov 24, 2002 12:15 am

I agree the game is too fast, but have found that by lowering the speed too much 1)players can never drive past the defender and 2)the spin moves and crossovers slow down too, to the point where they become very determental to the game. Leading the break, on defender in front, time to put a spin on him or cross him up, and three seconds later the animation is still going and everyone else is downcourt.

I think the big issues are lowering fg/3pt%, blocks, and steals. Again, its a fine balance, b/c if fg% goes too low and I go 1-20 on 12 footers I end up just pumping and cutting for layups and still end the game shooting 70% from the field. Not fun. I think steals should go down a bit, and passing ability should go up so you don't get 25 "oops wrong player" passes every game but also can still make steals one-on-one.

Offensive boards needs to increase, and rebounds for guards needs to go up too.

Real salaries are important, real injuries less so to me.
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Postby cocobee on Sun Nov 24, 2002 12:19 am

Andrew, here's my .2cents:
Rosters--it's up to you, but I'd prefer just updated rosters mainly because I play franchise with them and the tweaked ones would mess everything up. But, as long as you have an updated roster somewhere, it's fine with me. :lol:

Real Salaries: YES!!!!

Installation: I prefer the bat file method, it's simple. :wink:

Ignoring injuries: I like to have the "real starters" in there injured or not.

Thanks again Andrew. 8)
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Postby valrond on Sun Nov 24, 2002 12:25 am

I agree with most people here, but I have to make a remark, accurate rosters doesn't only mean that every player is on his team, but their ratings are as realistic as possible. For example, NLSC Live 2001 rosters for last season were very unrealistic in this fashion, having for example, rookie of the year Pau Gasol rated lower (70) than Lorenzen Wright or Stromile Swift.

This is important, not only for the players, but for the overall rating for the team, right now, The Mavs and Spurs are way too bad, and in franchise they are lottery teams, and the Grizzlies are greatley overrated, being a playoff team.
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Postby GALitchi on Sun Nov 24, 2002 12:50 am

Hi Andrew
i suggest that u should turn the stl/blk rating down a lot(to 50-60) and lower the jump a bit. even if u do this, stl and blk are still very common(esp stl) your oppoent will get about 20 stl in ONE game. maybe thats because i just started playing the game and dont play well. u may experience that urself when u got the game
i lower the fg/3pt rating but the score is still too high. i often get a result of 153-145 or somethin' like this. ive never got a result below 100(for both teams)
i play 12min simulation superstar level player lock mode
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Postby stclam on Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:06 am

1) How about decrease the offensive awareness & primacy of PG and SG?

2) i think the # of offensive rebound are just right. at first, i had problem to grab offensive rebounds too, practice more, you'll found that the ratio of DEF/OFF rebounds can be realistic

3) Players like Zo, Brandon, McDyess, Camby should be placed on IR. but some like Reggie Miller, Mobley, Odom who are only out for a month or two, shall be included, IMHO.

:wink: :wink: :wink:
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Postby Brave Sir Rubin on Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:23 am

2 versions of the rosters will be much better...

same with real salaries

installation doesn't really matter

ignoring injuries would be much easier for you....the only players you should place on the IL are the ones that a re actually there...ad make them playable, it dhould be a user's desicion to play with en or not...
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Postby daHiVE on Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:55 am

i´ve been trying around with tweaking the players.dbf a lot and i´ve mostly found out the same things like everyone else. in addition to fg, 3fg, block, steal, speed, jump, rebounding you should also have a good look at primacy and inside scoring. those last 2 ratings had pretty much the biggest effect on gameplay style and shooting pct for me. IMO it´s also important to tune down the inside scoring because out of the box shots inside the paint can only be stopped by blocking them but not by just playing good tight-ass defense.
just my 2cents...and much success with your patches!!!
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Postby greenmig on Sun Nov 24, 2002 3:13 am

Andrew,

Just another idea... :wink:

I think that the game is too dominated by PG's, SG's generally...these guys tend to just bomb away....so when you decrease fg%, off awareness & primacy....I think that it would be wise to grade it towards decreasing the smaller players' ratings more than the big men in the paint. eg: multiply pg's, sg's fg% by say 0.6 & pf's & C's by 0.8 or something like that.... :P
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Postby KnickNut3 on Sun Nov 24, 2002 4:08 am

My opinion to make it best for everyone. (Thanks for asking :))

If we go the two roster route, perhaps we can combine them this way, since we won't want to go with four rosters combining accurate/tweaked and full/active, since that's way too much work for you.

Accurate roster/ratings = full rosters - since it is used mostly in single player play with franchises, ignore injuries for this one. Let everyone start whole.

Tweaked roster/ratings = active - since it is used more for exhibition and online play, put injured players on the IR for this one. Make them playable, though, so if someone wants to take them off for their own use or if they get healthy, they can without downloading a new patch.

Misc. salaries yes, bat file.

Thanks!
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Postby macbit on Sun Nov 24, 2002 9:14 am

Hey Andrew,

roster :

there are ihmo 2 part are critical: Speed and fg .

speed to low you can´t run fastbreak and freestyle in sensless
To much speed.....

FG: now too high but if you goes to low with the fg ratings, kobe
´don´t hit the basket for his noise. Also the very good 3pgt shooter
have max 25 % from the field.

Steal: there is also a ki problem, Cross passes are impossible because the computer player jumps and he has the steal....

Marc
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Postby DoubleA on Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:29 am

ok, heres my suggestion, and u probably will hate it, but who cares

1) andrew makes a real patch, with accurate rosters and injured list so everything is right, ok ? so thats the patch group A wants

2) he sends this roster patch to someone with-in the live community and then they alter it so that it is not real, so injurd players are playing, etc, he sends it back to andrew and thus we have the same ratings for every player, but 2 versions of the OFFICIAL NLSC patch that everyone seems to want, and they jsut send it back to andrew.

bang, u have ur two roster patches that keeps every1 happy
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