Chicago Bulls Thread

[shadowgrin]

Deng to the Knicks!

[Valor]

I get the point about not overpaying him, what I'm having a problem with getting is why people seem to think there's a need to sell half the roster and go for the so called free agent sweepstakes? Even IF you get a guy like Melo, does he fit in well with Thib's system of defense and motion offense? Instead of shipping Deng around shouldn't they try harder to convince Deng and Booze to take a discount? There really is nobody out there that will 1. actually come to the Bulls, and 2. fit into the system maybe except for Gasol, and it's hard to see him leave the Lakers with Kobe sticking around for few more years now.

Boozer is sort of overpaid, yes. Is that his fault? Management gave him that ridiculous contract after striking out in the 2010 FA market (sounds familiar?), the hate on him from day 1 is beyond me...the guy gives you exactly what he has done all his career, scoring, rebounding, and decent passing ability in the post. We all knew he had no D, so whats the hate about? Just because Paxson and Forman gave him $80m? He hasn't exactly done less than 18-8, I'd say that kind of consistent production doesn't justify the label of "vastly overpaid".

[Andrew]

The thing is, if you overpay Deng, it's not just about the free agent class of 2014; it's tying up the cap for years to come. Convincing him (and Boozer) to take smaller deals when Deng in particular could perhaps land a bigger deal elsewhere is easier said than done, hence why they need to at least consider moving them.

Yes, it's management's fault that Boozer is overpaid. You can't blame Boozer for taking that offer, so there probably is some misdirected outrage on the part of some fans. It doesn't change the fact that he's not quite worth the money he's getting, nor is he getting any younger, so again you have to consider your options. Also, for what it's worth, his numbers with the Bulls these past four years are 16 and 9.

[Moz]

Instead of shipping Deng around shouldn't they try harder to convince Deng and Booze to take a discount?.

The reason is even with these two they cant get it done... hence the need of another # 2 option (and now with what happened to Rose) and as mentioned resigning them both is not cap friendly... maybe if you can get rid of Taj Gibson you can retain one of them so either you let them walk or trade one of them with Taj and have enough cap room

[Valor]

The thing is, if you overpay Deng, it's not just about the free agent class of 2014; it's tying up the cap for years to come. Convincing him (and Boozer) to take smaller deals when Deng in particular could perhaps land a bigger deal elsewhere is easier said than done, hence why they need to at least consider moving them.

Yes, it's management's fault that Boozer is overpaid. You can't blame Boozer for taking that offer, so there probably is some misdirected outrage on the part of some fans. It doesn't change the fact that he's not quite worth the money he's getting, nor is he getting any younger, so again you have to consider your options. Also, for what it's worth, his numbers with the Bulls these past four years are 16 and 9.

Instead of shipping Deng around shouldn't they try harder to convince Deng and Booze to take a discount?.

The reason is even with these two they cant get it done... hence the need of another # 2 option (and now with what happened to Rose) and as mentioned resigning them both is not cap friendly... maybe if you can get rid of Taj Gibson you can retain one of them so either you let them walk or trade one of them with Taj and have enough cap room

I agree about letting Boozer go at the end of his deal/trade him for something now but I reckon they really should keep Deng, even if it ends up costing a bit more than they want to pay. He's only 28, and like I said I believe him to be a very good second option/star on this Bulls team that preaches defense. If you let him go, who do you find to replace his spot on the wing? Right now with Jimmy B developing so quickly we can possibly challenge Miami in having the best defensive wing duo in the entire league, and that fits right into Thibs' system.

Here's an interesting read for those who have time, Deng is really an irreplaceable player. I have no problem giving him something along the lines of what he's earning now (about 13-14m?), it's not like they can use that money to get better production anyways. Once Boozer's $15m/yr contract runs out we wouldn't have that big of a problem with the salary cap.

[Moz]

Boozer's contract will be up not until 2015 so even you dealt or amnestied him you're still over the cap for next year after you resigned Deng (that's why you also need to get rid of Taj if you want to retain him to have a good cap room)... and also it is different now with Derrick's situation... Not that I don't believe that Rose will recover from all of this but there is a possibility that the management will try to look for somebody who will lead this team and relegate Rose to be "the other option"instead...

[benji]

I reckon they really should keep Deng, even if it ends up costing a bit more than they want to pay. He's only 28, and like I said I believe him to be a very good second option/star on this Bulls team

If Deng is your clear second best player you're not contending. Especially if you're paying him $13+ million a year.

Deng is really an irreplaceable player.
...
it's not like they can use that money to get better production anyways.

I think wandered into a different timeline again.

[Andrew]

I'd say that Deng isn't easily replaced; he's a fine player and I don't wish to marginalise his contributions to the team over the course of his career. Irreplaceable is overselling him, though.

[Moz]

Damn... 3 putbacks... I feel that last possession was rushed with 18 seconds left... on the bright side Snell seems getting a lot of confidence

[MJALLDAY]

I'm convinced Rose's knee problems are caused by those ankle braces he wears. There's a whole bunch of articles on the subject e.g.

Brace yourself: ankle braces hurt knees BY DR. PHIL WAGNER, M.D.
While most research agrees that wearing braces helps prevent ankle sprains, not many studies have been done on the effects wearing braces can have on an athlete's knees. Recently, a few studies have come out specifically addressing the stress ankle braces can put on an athlete's knee joint. Research by Kandy Venesky at Indiana University showed that wearing ankle braces increased the twisting forces about the knee by 10%, increasing the potential for knee ligament injuries. It is important to note that this study was published in The Journal of Athletic Training, a population that is usually the most adamant about wearing ankle braces. In addition, research from The University of Kansas Medical Center concurred, showing that wearing ankle braces significantly increased torque at the knee joint during trunk rotation movement while standing on one leg (the same motion that happens during a one leg landing).

So why does an ankle brace put your knees at risk? You have to think of your legs as complex shock absorbers. When you land after a jump, your ankle, knee and hip joints all play a role in absorbing the shock of the landing. Ankle braces, while stabilizing the joint, also decrease your ankles range of motion, essentially taking out your first shock absorber. This places more stress on the joint next in line, the knee.

[Andrew]

Seems plausible. With a couple of freak, non-contract injuries in the past couple of years, it's worth taking into consideration.

[Valor]

I reckon they really should keep Deng, even if it ends up costing a bit more than they want to pay. He's only 28, and like I said I believe him to be a very good second option/star on this Bulls team

If Deng is your clear second best player you're not contending. Especially if you're paying him $13+ million a year.

Deng is really an irreplaceable player.
...
it's not like they can use that money to get better production anyways.

I think wandered into a different timeline again.

Well who out there could you get to replace him that's a better fit for a similar/cheaper price? I can't think of one tbh, unless you really draft perfectly again like with Jimmy B.

I'd say that Deng isn't easily replaced; he's a fine player and I don't wish to marginalise his contributions to the team over the course of his career. Irreplaceable is overselling him, though.

Agreed, what I meant by irreplaceable is that you can't find a guy out there that the Bulls can afford who gives the same stuff or more.

[MJALLDAY]

Getting into the lottery would be nice but the East is so awful it's gonna be almost impossible unless they start unloading guys or if the injury bug takes out some more guys. .

[shadowgrin]

Well who out there could you get to replace him that's a better fit for a similar/cheaper price? I can't think of one tbh, unless you really draft perfectly again like with Jimmy B.

I think they should have drafted Chandler Parsons. I know, hindsight.

Cheaper than Deng, a lot apparently.
Take a pick from Iguodala, David Lee, Harden, Al Jefferson, David West, Al Horford, Batum, Tyreke Evans (lol), Stephen Curry, DeRozan, Millsap, Thad Young, Ryan Anderson, Mayo, Monta Ellis, Afflalo, Hawes, Kevin Martin, Jamal Crawford, Luis Scola.

[Valor]

Well who out there could you get to replace him that's a better fit for a similar/cheaper price? I can't think of one tbh, unless you really draft perfectly again like with Jimmy B.

I think they should have drafted Chandler Parsons. I know, hindsight.

Cheaper than Deng, a lot apparently.
Take a pick from Iguodala, David Lee, Harden, Al Jefferson, David West, Al Horford, Batum, Tyreke Evans (lol), Stephen Curry, DeRozan, Millsap, Thad Young, Ryan Anderson, Mayo, Monta Ellis, Afflalo, Hawes, Kevin Martin, Jamal Crawford, Luis Scola.

I'll take Deng over nearly everyone you mentioned except for Iggy, Horford, Batum, Curry....I see where you're coming from in terms of the price tho, but then again that's the Bulls front office being dumb with their contract management.

[Andrew]

Bad contracts are ultimately on the front office, but wouldn't it be in their best interests to avoid making those same mistakes again?

[Valor]

Bad contracts are ultimately on the front office, but wouldn't it be in their best interests to avoid making those same mistakes again?

Yes, that is exactly why they shouldn't put all their eggs into the "hit the FA jackpot" basket n then end up spending all that capspace on a Carlos Boozer when they fail to woo the A-list players.

[erudain]

It's not only the FA jackpot...FA is just one of the options Bulls have and only if they also let Luol go. Hell, even if you let him go, Bulls still wouldn't have enough to offer a max contract to any FA.

You have already locked two guys in Mirotic and Jimmy, you need around 4 or 5m to lure Mirotic over from staying in Real Madrid, you also need money to extend Jimmy.
So let's say If you amnesty Booz after this season, you clear those 16.8m in cap (if it's not less):

a) If you sign Deng the same contract he has now, you don't have cap to bring Mirotic over since you'd be over the cap and only have the 2.5m MLE (you need a new PF also) and you cannot extend Jimmy who'd become a restricted free agent in 2015 unless you give away lots of money due to the repeaters tax, so you'd be signing minimum players next to fill the roster. You'd also have this year 1st round pick which is also a guarateed contract, and the Bobcat picks if they make the playoffs.

b) If Luol accepts a paycut and signs a contract around 8-9m, you could keep him, you'd be just around the cap edge, so you try to be below it so you can offer the full MLE to Mirotic to come play and try to extend Jimmy with what's left. You'd have exactly the same team, with a developing PF, maybe a 18-20th 1st round pick, the Bobcats pick if they get in the playoffs.
Everything plays out well but you'd be still counting on Rose coming back at a superstar level.
Your cap situation will still be the same and you cannot go after any free agent.

c) If you let Luol walk away for nothing, you'd have around 11m in cap room enough to bring Mirotic with the full MLE of 5m, extend Jimmy, pay the rookies, but that's not enough to get a 2nd superstar, at best and if the cap goes up you'd have likely 8-9m in cap.
There's opction "C1" lets call it, and that'd be, since you have already decided to let Lu go, and that you won't get a 2nd star, try to get anything out of Luol, picks, young prospects, a sack of potatoes, whatever.

Option a & b have another catch, it would put them over the tax level three years in a row and have them paying the repeater tax.
Meaning you can make extension to a restricted free agent like Butler but you'd be paying $3.75-to-$4.25 in taxes for every dollar of Butler’s contract. So even if Jimmy signed a cheap extension, Jerry Reinsdorf will have to pay around 25m-30m tax each year. Raise your hand if you think that’s going to happen. Anyone?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I don't see Reinsdorf being in a rush to do that, unless they're actually winning championships (and even then, I'm not sure).

[Moz]

Hell, even if you let him go, Bulls still wouldn't have enough to offer a max contract to any FA.

But then again you can trade Taj Gibson to a team with a lot of cap room....

[NovU]

Can some Bulls fan explain why Boozer is being glued to the bench these days? He hasn't seen much action in fourth lately (his best fg% quarter), and he's seen none tonight plus none again in 2 OTs. What is Thib up to with Boozer? I thought he came into the season ready, cut down on weight and fit, motivated and in fact has been playing quite well up until Thib started to bench him kinda suddenly.

[shadowgrin]

Defense.

[MJALLDAY]

Can some Bulls fan explain why Boozer is being glued to the bench these days? He hasn't seen much action in fourth lately (his best fg% quarter), and he's seen none tonight plus none again in 2 OTs. What is Thib up to with Boozer? I thought he came into the season ready, cut down on weight and fit, motivated and in fact has been playing quite well up until Thib started to bench him kinda suddenly.

He has not been the same since Rose got hurt. It looks like he doesn't feel like playing anymore. I can't blame him, I don't feel like watching anymore.

[Moz]

Can some Bulls fan explain why Boozer is being glued to the bench these days? He hasn't seen much action in fourth lately (his best fg% quarter), and he's seen none tonight plus none again in 2 OTs. What is Thib up to with Boozer? I thought he came into the season ready, cut down on weight and fit, motivated and in fact has been playing quite well up until Thib started to bench him kinda suddenly.

It's because he's not playing defense and Taj have been playing great lately... or perhaps Thibs got tired of him having those fadeaways instead of attacking in the post...

I thought the Pelicans game should've finished in the regulation... that late call on Deng cost them this game... the ball has been shot, hit the rim and the other team have already established a possession then they willl whistle for a foul.... the league should begin penalizing referees for that it's not healthy and I've seen those kind of calls a lot on the games I saw recently (not just Bulls games)

[Andrew]

All the same though, if you want to win, you can't rely on the referees to make the right call. It sucks to have calls like that where it feels like there's an injustice, but there's also missed shots and defensive lapses throughout the game that all add up. We marvel at last second heroics and ideally you want the referees to get it right in crunch time of course, but to win games, you'd rather not let it come down to a final play or a correct whistle.