2012 NBA Finals: (2) Heat vs (2) Thunder

[Mavs4Life]

Late, but Cuban pwns all.

[Sauru]

Kobe is Michael with 3 point range but Lebron surpassed Kobe.

i love when these so called expects say this (and i know its where you and many others steal it from), kobe is jordan with a 3. such a simple and basic statement that pretty much puts down jordan for everything else he did.

also lebron has not passed kobe yet. i gotta be honest i am sick of having to defend kobe. i mean it really makes me violently ill

[shadowgrin]

Admit it Sauru. You want Kobe to treat you like he treated that white chick in Colorado.

[el badman]

There's nothing like a Finals thread to make all the hibernating retards come out and share their vast knowledge of the game.
I fucking hate them but congrats to the Heat I guess.

[benji]

There's nothing like a Finals thread to make all the hibernating retards come out and share their vast knowledge of the game.
I fucking hate them but congrats to the Heat I guess.

You want to call me out THEN CALL ME OUT BRO.

MEET ME SOMEWHERE.

[NovU]

i love when these so called expects say this (and i know its where you and many others steal it from), kobe is jordan with a 3. such a simple and basic statement that pretty much puts down jordan for everything else he did.

also lebron has not passed kobe yet. i gotta be honest i am sick of having to defend kobe. i mean it really makes me violently ill

Oh yeah, expects? I bet you didn't expect me to say this, but 2012 NBA World Champion LeBron James with Larry Bird's teammates would have, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6... championships by now.

[Sauru]

lebron needs the killer instinct, with that he may very well be the best ever some day, without he will probably just be considered the greatest talent ever. news media just loves to throw out names every year, they want to claim we have another jordan. hell they want to think we have a better jordan. jordan would not have let dallas beat him. people always talk about his 6 rings i am more concerned with how many times he made the finals and lost

[NovU]

Well... not everyone had a privilege to play alongside Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Bob McAdoo, Nate Archibald and Bill Walton who are all hall of fame inductees.

[imefimef]

TF? Kobe is not a MJ with a 3, MJ is a more complete player than Kobe, it is very disrespectful to MJ. And can we please just stop any sort of LeBron comparisons to any of the greats? It's pretty sillly to compare a 27 year old basketball player to a retired legend. At least wait till he's in his 30s when he's closer to retiring. And Skip Bayless is/has always been an idiot. He could have a conversation with a puppy and end up looking stupid.
And i find it hilarious that someone with MJALLDAY as their screenname claims to not be an MJ cultish. LOL indeed.

[NovU]

Really, does anybody here really think Lebron is better than MJ in any aspect? Seriousy, anyone? Nobody does. He was an icon that brought basketball into the category of sports. He brought intangibles. He alone was bigger than the league. People from foreign would know who MJ is but wouldn't know a single team in the NBA. He was ultimate people's favorite. LBJ on the other hand is forever a villain, probably the biggest one ever in the league history. Legacy wise, no matter how many rings or MVP he wins more, he will never be the Michael Jordan.

But if there is anything from LBJ that comes close, it's the stats. Don't get me wrong here, really. MJ's stats still are more impressive not to mention his superior resume, but don't forget no one ever came closer than LeBawn did. Not Kobe(no matter how hard you try), not Shaquille, not McGrady, none of them come closer than LBJ. Sure, LBJ came up short twice in the Finals and that was a disappointment. Therefore he's not Michael Jordan. But in whole, it's true he has been the closest thing to Michael Jordan in lots more ways than any other players in the history. For me, it just has been a pure excitement and joy to be able to see somebody other than long retired Jordan to play this level of basketball. Again, mark my word, he ain't gonna be better MJ when it's all said and done but the closest anyone got is going to be LeBawn the choker James in terms of statistical pov.

[shadowgrin]

Oh yeah, expects? I bet you didn't expect me to say this, but 2012 NBA World Champion LeBron James with Larry Bird's teammates would have, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6... championships by now.

Stop being a typo nazi. You alone could fill a whole thread of it starting with Dwayne.
Sixers, Bucks, Pistons, Hawks, and a young Bulls team with some punk named Michael Jordan in the East alone.

[imefimef]

LOL you're silly, LeBron James is one of the most complete players is basketball history. (KEYWORDS: "ONE OF THE MOST" so please don't start naming other players you feel is complete) Without question. If you're talking about what LeBron does on the floor, I'm not saying he's better than MJ but i'm not NOT saying he's better than MJ. LeBron scores at a very high level, and he's very very efficient. HE playmakes at an elite level. He is a solid rebounder. He is an elite defender, he guards 1 thru 5. (Don't give me that he's tall and big, he's sposed to becuase Blake Griffin is also 6'9 250...he's still not guarding derrick rose. And don't give me that MJ is too short, Ron Artest is 6'7'' and he guards 1 thru 5 too). He gets steals and he blocks shots. LeBron can play the positions 1 thru 5 on offense (remember he started as a center against okc and played the 5 against the celtics). He can score off either a jumpshot (sure he's not the greatest shooter but he is def solid, and a much better 3 point shooter than MJ (maybe except for 2 or 3 MJ years). He can post (even before this season he could post, but has gotten better). And It goes with out saying, he can drive.


There are multiple facets to basketball, and there is not 1 you can point to and say LeBron is not good at. His worst attribute is probably his freethrow shooting, and he's about 78% for his career so it's not even bad.
Name 1 or any aspect of basketball LeBron is not good at?
Now while you're at it, how many players can you play that game with?
And it's funny how people label LeBron a choker. 2011 Finals? Hell yeah. A couple of games from 2010 Celtics series? Sure. But 2 bad series out of a bunch of dominating series equals choker? LOL okies.



PS: I'm not saying LeBron is better than Jordan, it wouldn't make sense and would be an apple and orange comparison, let LeBron retire or at least come close before we can judge. Think about it, if you were comparing Jordan at 27 to legends at the time, it would have been silly. Plus we don't know if LeBron can sustain this performance and regress or maybe get better.

[NovU]

My comment wasn't aimed at you. But was against a notion that MJ is being unfairly compared to LBJ. And ignore an idiot above you, he just hatin.

[shadowgrin]

People call it hating I call it FACTS.

There are multiple facets to basketball, and there is not 1 you can point to and say LeBron is not good at. His worst attribute is probably his freethrow shooting, and he's about 78% for his career so it's not even bad.
Name 1 or any aspect of basketball LeBron is not good at?
Now while you're at it, how many players can you play that game with?

Ask koberulz.

[vincemeister55]

Lebron will never be like MJ. Because Lebron James is Lebron James. He's not playing like MJ, nor he's trying to be. Lebron got his own style in playing basketball. It's not Lebron's fault when people compares him to MJ. Hell, it's not even right for Lebron's fans to compare him to MJ because Lebron's playing differently from MJ. Kobe is more like playing the style of MJ. And the great thing about Lebron though, is that he's still learning. I just hope his body doesn't betray him. Also, comparing MJ's achievements to Lebron's for now is total bullshit. Let's just wait for Lebron to hang his sneakers and then compare their achievements. You may hate him as a person but on the court, you gotta appreciate his game. Congrats Heat!

[Sauru]

Well... not everyone had a privilege to play alongside Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Bob McAdoo, Nate Archibald and Bill Walton who are all hall of fame inductees.

what the hell does this have to do with what i said to you? did you already have a post saved and no matter what i posted you were gonna go with it? here is the thing, the better players you put around lebron the more he will avoid any sort of killer instinct. you can put lebron on a team of the best 12 players in the nba and he will be happy to score his points and not care if he sits the last 4 minutes. put jordan on a team of the 12 best in the league and all 12 will be looking to him to deliver them a victory

[_Steve_]

put jordan on a team of the 12 best in the league and all 12 will be looking to him to deliver them a victory

^this!

You can't buy killer instinct. You can't train to become the guy who want's to take the last and all important shot. MJ was that type of competitor. Larry Bird was. Kobe still is that type of player. LBJ is not. He did not hide in the 4th quarter as he did the year before, but he'll never become the leagues premier closer.

[Spree#8]

As we've seen, LeBron stopped disappearing in the 4th quarter when the game was on the line. I guess if we gets points in the clutch by making smart plays and driving to the rim for a high percentage shot and/or getting to the foul line, that's not good enough. You can only be a "closer" if you take stepback fadeaways over two players that will drop maybe once in every ten tries, probably less. James is clearly not that type of player. He tries to get his team the best possible shot. While I agree that there are situations when he takes it too far (this year's ASG could be a good example), taking "Kobe shots" is really not the best of ideas.

Kobe being the best closer is actually one of my favourite myths (Kobe being a great defensive stopper is another good one). We've seen some of his closing this year against the Thunder in the 2nd round.

[Andrew]

Awesome stuff from Cuban.

[koberulz]

put jordan on a team of the 12 best in the league and all 12 will be looking to him to deliver them a victory

^this!

You can't buy killer instinct. You can't train to become the guy who want's to take the last and all important shot. MJ was that type of competitor. Larry Bird was. Kobe still is that type of player. LBJ is not. He did not hide in the 4th quarter as he did the year before, but he'll never become the leagues premier closer.

Personally, I'd rather have the guy that can get me up 20 so we don't have to worry about a last-second shot at all.

[Oznogrd]

Yeah I went there.

[Sauru]

some of you seem to think that having killer instinct is limited to the 4th quarter or last couple minutes.

[NovU]

I know what you are saying. MJ's clutch genes are something Lebawn could never have. But let's not act like LeBawn never ever had whatever called a killer instinct of his own. He's shown it over and over in his career in big games including this post-season, legendary performance against the Pacers and Celtics that led to the come backs to win the series. This whole talk stems from two failures in the Finals though, which Lebawn will always have to deal with.

[_Steve_]

put jordan on a team of the 12 best in the league and all 12 will be looking to him to deliver them a victory

^this!

You can't buy killer instinct. You can't train to become the guy who want's to take the last and all important shot. MJ was that type of competitor. Larry Bird was. Kobe still is that type of player. LBJ is not. He did not hide in the 4th quarter as he did the year before, but he'll never become the leagues premier closer.

Personally, I'd rather have the guy that can get me up 20 so we don't have to worry about a last-second shot at all.

This would be great, but sometimes it comes down to the last game winning/losing shot.

I know what you are saying. MJ's clutch genes are something Lebawn could never have.

And that's what I mean. It's not about how often you hit a game winner, it's about are you afraid to shot or not. You either embrace this role or not. MJ seemed to love late game situations. So does Kobe.

some of you seem to think that having killer instinct is limited to the 4th quarter or last couple minutes.

It's not limited to late game situations, it's just the time when you can probably have the best look at it.

[benji]

MJ seemed to love late game situations.

Except when he was afraid to shoot and passed off to Paxson and Kerr rather than being a man and taking the shot.

Kobe's the literal embodiment of this stupid narrative. Jordan (nor Bird nor Magic) wasn't afraid to make the smart play, yet Kobe in his lifelong quest to internalize every outward appearance of Michael Jordan did like everyone else and paid attention only to the times the media took it on their faces when Jordan hit game winners. Thus he, and the others, chase the posters and replays and lifelong images of shots that go in. The shots that don't? The passes? Those don't grant idol worship and people aren't interested.

To illustrate a more important point, here's a decades worth of "randomly" selected Chicago Bulls basketball teams. These are their records in both regular season and playoff games decided by three points or less. Which ones feature Michael Jordan? Which ones won a title? Which one won 72 games?

Bulls: 5-8 (.385)
Bulls: 7-8 (.467)
Bulls: 10-7 (.588)
Bulls: 15-5 (.750)
Bulls: 6-11 (.353)
Bulls: 6-4 (.600)
Bulls: 13-4 (.765)
Bulls: 8-9 (.471)
Bulls: 4-2 (.667)
Bulls: 6-9 (.400)