2012 NBA Finals: (2) Heat vs (2) Thunder

[Andrew]

I'm going with the Thunder in six. Tough call with LeBron playing out of his mind, Bosh returning and having an impact and Wade still more than capable of great performances even though the Eastern Conference Finals didn't see him at his best, but the Thunder are a better team than the Celtics squad that took the Heat to seven games. They've got better depth, they've got home court advantage, they've already proven they can beat some very good teams over the course of this postseason...it's going to be hard fought, but I think they'll prevail.

Should be a great series.

Guys I have a question.
Anybody who wins the title... will be a legit champion (´cause of the short season)?

I mean, if OKC or LeBitch wins it, maybe could appear some comments like the ones that on 1999-2000 appeared when Spurs won the tittle, questioning the value of the banner.

short season or not the title still counts. hated how phil jackson tried to cheapen the spurs title with that shit last time.

I'm definitely with Sauru here. It's worth a footnote as Bill Simmons put it a couple of months back, something to put the season in context and acknowledge important factors that influenced how it all ultimately went down, but a championship is a championship. If you can outlast 29 other teams through the length of an NBA season and four rounds of best-of-seven playoff series, you've earned the Larry O'Brien trophy.

Same goes for Finals series that are lopsided, such as in 2002 and 2007. It may not go down as a classic but it doesn't make the championship any less legitimate as the winning team has still needed to prove themselves many times over by that point. All you can do is play who shows up and everyone is capable of beating everyone else, at least in theory, so it's still a championship that's earned.

[Nick]

There's no asterisk on this season in my mind. It's not like the playoffs were shortened/compacted.

I think that obviously the Thunder are the favourites, but i just don't think LeBron will let the Heat lose this time. The hunger is too strong. I think it's the Heat's time now. Miami in 6 or 7.

[benji]

I'm definitely with Sauru here. It's worth a footnote as Bill Simmons put it a couple of months back, something to put the season in context and acknowledge important factors that influenced how it all ultimately went down, but a championship is a championship. If you can outlast 29 other teams through the length of an NBA season and four rounds of best-of-seven playoff series, you've earned the Larry O'Brien trophy.

Same goes for Finals series that are lopsided, such as in 2002 and 2007. It may not go down as a classic but it doesn't make the championship any less legitimate as the winning team has still needed to prove themselves many times over by that point. All you can do is play who shows up and everyone is capable of beating everyone else, at least in theory, so it's still a championship that's earned.

No, no, no, no, no, titles are only legitimate if you beat "real competition" and it takes you six or seven games to do it. Like the Lakers in 2010 or Celtics in 2008 or Lakers in 1987 or Celtics in 1984.

Crushing everyone and sweeping series is not how the playoffs are meant to be won, just like beating teams by 15 points a game is illegitimate but winning on last second shots is the highest honor you can bestow on a player. You haven't toughed it out and won when it counts, you had it easy. Asterisk.

[Andrew]

There's no asterisk on this season in my mind. It's not like the playoffs were shortened/compacted.

I think even if they were shortened, an asterisk would be unfair. It would definitely be a point worth noting for the history books of course, but every team would be in the same position, a victim of the same circumstance. I'd say that game fixing is the only scenario where we could fairly assign an asterisk.

No, no, no, no, no, titles are only legitimate if you beat "real competition" and it takes you six or seven games to do it. Like the Lakers in 2010 or Celtics in 2008 or Lakers in 1987 or Celtics in 1984.

Crushing everyone and sweeping series is not how the playoffs are meant to be won, just like beating teams by 15 points a game is illegitimate but winning on last second shots is the highest honor you can bestow on a player. You haven't toughed it out and won when it counts, you had it easy. Asterisk.

I'll meet you halfway and agree it deserves an obelisk.

[benji]

If a team was up 3-0 and the other team died in a plane crash you could give them an asterisk title.

[Andrew]

That too.

[benji]

[stereoxide]

I think that obviously the Thunder are the favourites, but i just don't think LeBron will let the Heat lose this time. The hunger is too strong. I think it's the Heat's time now. Miami in 6 or 7.

Personally I don't think hunger is a factor because every team si hungry for a championship. It's the finals nobody wants to lose. Just sayin'.

[Radioman]

I say the Thunder in 4, Heats only advantage is that their players already went through this.(NBA Finals)

[shadowgrin]

Disappointing first page for this thread.

Just look at the poll options, no mention of the Sonics?

I thought it had been implicitly agreed here in the NLSC that comparing positional matchups to determine the winner is an exercise that should only be done by lobotomized retards high on rubber cement.

As for the asterisk, it's as stupid as Skip Bayless. Same with Simmons' retarded footnote idea.
It's just Simmons trying to rationalize things (in a bad way) under the pretense of putting it in context (to use Andrew's word). To use Simmons' first example, it's not even sure that the Bulls with a healthy Derrick Rose would beat the Heat, Celtics, or Pacers. Heck, Granger got injured in that series with the Heat, footnote! It's ridiculous.

[benji]

should only be done by lobotomized retards high on rubber cement.

And look who did it.

[SoF'nAwesome]

That benji is a cracker

Heat....in 6.

[NovU]

Personally I don't think hunger is a factor because every team si hungry for a championship. It's the finals nobody wants to lose. Just sayin'.

It is an underrated factor. Don't underestimate heart, wills, and hunger. That's in fact how less talented teams win. You gotta want it. Look what happened with Dallas in the Finals last year. No hearted Lebron gave up. Less talented Mavericks gave it all because they wanted it more. Focused and determined, it's easier to make adjustment during the series and less mistakes will be made. I am actually looking forward to see Westbrook and cos making clumsy mistakes and the Heat taking advantage of them.

[shadowgrin]

Don't underestimate heart, wills, and hunger. That's in fact how less talented teams win. You gotta want it. Look what happened with Dallas in the Finals last year. No hearted Lebron gave up. Less talented Mavericks gave it all because they wanted it more.

No. The Mavs were not less talented. Outside of the Heat's Big Three of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Joel Anthony the rest of the Heat talent are trash. The Mavs may not have had players with the talent comparable individually to those three but they still have six talented players on their team that they used. That was still three more than the Heat.

[NovU]

Let's not act like the Mavericks were favorites going into the Finals.

[stereoxide]

I think sweeping a good Lakers team and beating a talented team like the Thunder in 5 games are enough for the Mavs to become favorites for the Finals last year. But of course Miami's hype is greater than Dallas because of the Big 3.

[shadowgrin]

Let's not act like the Mavericks were favorites going into the Finals.

You're confusing favor with talent.
And you're confusing that three players equals a NBA team.
You're also confusing that the opinion of the majority makes a fact.

[NovU]

No I am not. The Heat were favored because of the talent. The chemistry hasn't been that well though due to lack of ball to go around enough. Obviously you are confusing the chemistry with talent.

I think sweeping a good Lakers team and beating a talented team like the Thunder in 5 games are enough for the Mavs to become favorites for the Finals last year. But of course Miami's hype is greater than Dallas because of the Big 3.

And of course, the Mavericks were a stellar regular season above others, right? I am sure too only their playoffs performance were in people's mind. Where were you last season when nobody thought the Mavericks were more talented.

[benji]

The chemistry hasn't been that well though due to lack of ball to go around enough.

Weird, yet neither Wade or LeBron has seen a demonstrable decrease in usage, and Bosh's is only in comparison to his contract chasing barrage. It's almost like the rest of the team is garbage that can't create their own shot.

Where were you last season when nobody thought the Mavericks were more talented.

It's a good thing threads on this forum aren't archived because it'd be hilarious if four of the first seven predictions in that Finals thread picked the Mavericks.

[shadowgrin]

The Heat were favored because of the talent.

You're also confusing that the opinion of the majority makes a fact.

The chemistry hasn't been that well though due to lack of ball to go around enough.

No hearted Lebron gave up.

[NovU]

And of course benji steps in to help out his minion.

But my point stands that Lebron's lack of will and heart caused his talent go away in the Finals. Rest of the team also didn't show up nor lived up to their hype or talent. On the other hand, the Mavericks were stellar in both effort and coaching which the Heat lacked the whole time. Just hoping this series will be different for the Heat.

[stereoxide]

But my point stands that Lebron's lack of will and heart caused his talent go away in the Finals. Rest of the team also didn't show up nor lived up to their hype or talent. On the other hand, the Mavericks were stellar in both effort and coaching which the Heat lacked the whole time. Just hoping this series will be different for the Heat.

Why did LeBron join Miami? It's because of chasing his coveted championship. Why should he lose will and heart when he is very near in winning his dream championship? Let's just say that the Heat cannot stop the Mavs with the 2011 Finals monster that is Dirk.

[shadowgrin]

But my point stands that Lebron's lack of will and heart caused his talent go away in the Finals. Rest of the team also didn't show up nor lived up to their hype or talent.

That's not a chemistry problem. To put it simply, it's choking.
Chemistry problem is what Shaq and Kobe had (yet they still won lololol), what Kobe and Bynum had for a short moment this season, what Deron Williams had with Sloan last season, what Dwight Howard had with Van Gundy, or what Carmelo had with D'Antoni.

And of course benji steps in to help out his minion.

U MAD BRAH? I could say the same thing about Heat fans.
Why don't you enjoy your post with the matchup presentation to relieve yourself of some stress.

[NovU]

Not mad. But it's another usual day against a nitpicker. Please do enjoy your day too, brah.

But my point stands that Lebron's lack of will and heart caused his talent go away in the Finals. Rest of the team also didn't show up nor lived up to their hype or talent. On the other hand, the Mavericks were stellar in both effort and coaching which the Heat lacked the whole time. Just hoping this series will be different for the Heat.

Why did LeBron join Miami? It's because of chasing his coveted championship. Why should he lose will and heart when he is very near in winning his dream championship? Let's just say that the Heat cannot stop the Mavs with the 2011 Finals monster that is Dirk.

Exactly. Dirk was a monster and Lebron wasn't. That said, I could go ahead and say he wanted it more and was more focused. Unless you are saying Lebron wasn't talented enough... who has been the best player for perhaps straight years.

[shadowgrin]