Spirit of '99: 2011 Lockout Discussion

[_Steve_]

I took a closer look at Marc Gasol playing with Spain at Eurobasket. He seems to be a little more chubby as he was during the playoffs... He seems also a little less buffed, but I could be mistaken 'cause I wasn't able to watch Spurs-Grizzlies in HD as I can watch Eurobasket now.
Anyway hat should be something that can be easily corrected once he is with teh Grizzlies again...

[Andrew]

That could be a while. Seems talks broke down and the season is in doubt once again.

[NovU]

That's too bad. Meanwhile Jondan gets fined for talking.

[Andrew]

More details on the talks breaking down. Seems the hard cap is something the owners and league really aren't going to back down on after all. No talks scheduled and it looks bleak, but Fisher insists the players aren't walking away from the table so hopefully there can be another meeting in time.

[_Steve_]

Seems as if the hard- /soft-cap debate isn't just a decoy as someone mentioned above. To me it does not seems to be very conductive that both sides go on about the latest talks as soon as they've left the building. Taking the results to the press before agreeing (at least) on (parts of) a new CBA cuts off a lot of flexibility as both sides just don't want to "loose" the tug war.

[benji]

That's basically the entire point though.

Both the players and the owners are split among themselves, that's why there's no agreement. This isn't like the 1990s lockouts where both sides had a clear unified goal, they're internally divided.

[_Steve_]

That's basically the entire point though.

Both the players and the owners are split among themselves, that's why there's no agreement. This isn't like the 1990s lockouts where both sides had a clear unified goal, they're internally divided.

What should I say. It's hard not to agree on that.
Only issue both sides are of the same opinion (for now) seems that it could be really bad if there would be no (entire) 2011/12 season.

[benji]

It's not like 1999 though when Shaq and the other young-ins came in and told the veterans to shut up because they wanted the money. Getting deals in Europe works for a lot of players, the stars today have far fewer cash issues than most of those back then, they've been told for two years to start saving money, etc.

[_Steve_]

European basketball teams won't sign much more NBA players because many leagues simply lack the money plus many European teams have more or less filled up their rosters. As it was said before, China won't be home for too many players, at least not for those with existing NBA contracts. From what I've read in this forum I suppose Australia isn't the place to get rich on playing basketball. I really don't have any idea how many players could land big contracts in South America or Asia (excluding China) but I'd guess the best slices of the cake have already been allocated.
In some kind of way I can understand why players fight so hard to avoid the owners 40% BRI proposal, especially in case of players like Lamar Odom who's salary would be cut from $8.9 million to $2.6 million. Nevertheless no season means even less money then less money under a new CBA.

[benji]

You're only looking at the current global situation though. The next CBA will almost certainly limit the salaries, the American economy and dollar is a continuing downward spiral. The old market is changing. We were told decades ago the NBA was where all the greats played and that Americans were dominant. Years ago that stars would never flee to Europe for short term payment. And here we are. Now we're told they'll come back no matter what because the NBA is the only thing that matters.

China's market today is entirely different, Marbury and Francis would, had they not been themselves, made more than Yao would have ever made back when he came over. Even more than Wang Zhi Zhi did and thus why he defected. Europe is stronger and more established than it was a decade ago.

The real roadblock to a mass exodus is the marketing appeal to staying in the U.S. and the NBA and that only applies to a handful of players and they're the ones who don't need an union.

It's all the low tier players who are relevant to the union, and they're all going overseas because of the union since that's the only way these labor markets work for the veterans who are in charge.

[shadowgrin]

benji and his union bashing socialist talk.

Besides the cap, the other main issue remains the division of revenues. Players were guaranteed 57 percent under the old deal and had offered to lower that to 54.3 percent before owners locked them out on July 1. They say the league’s proposal would have them a percentage in the 40s, and Hunter said if the owners are serious about a hard cap, he’ll give it to them if players get 65 percent.

Oh Billy Hunter.

[Andrew]

Bill Simmons:

Just split the rev 50/50, 4-year max deals, and players have to bend on a harder cap and we're 90% there! This pisses me off to no end.

[_Steve_]

J.R. Smith is going to play in China but would still be available for the NBA play offs.

[NovU]

Just for the playoffs? Might as well not come back at all.

The dude's I thought was going to get more minutes last season after the big trade. But didn't happen. Perhaps this is a good thing as Wilson Chandler, Felton, Galinari all could get his playing time.

[Andrew]

Larry Coon: Why the owners will win the lockout

[rise]

Just for the playoffs? Might as well not come back at all.

The dude's I thought was going to get more minutes last season after the big trade. But didn't happen. Perhaps this is a good thing as Wilson Chandler, Felton, Galinari all could get his playing time.

Nope. Felton's in Portland, and didn't Wilson Chandler go to China for the season as well?

[_Steve_]

Just for the playoffs? Might as well not come back at all.

The dude's I thought was going to get more minutes last season after the big trade. But didn't happen. Perhaps this is a good thing as Wilson Chandler, Felton, Galinari all could get his playing time.

Nope. Felton's in Portland, and didn't Wilson Chandler go to China for the season as well?

Yes he is going to play in China. His situation should be the same as it is in case of J.R. Smith, both would be available for the play offs only.
Denver has seen much better days...

[NovU]

Not just the Nuggets, but I guess many other teams will probably go through the same trauma.

[_Steve_]

Not just the Nuggets, but I guess many other teams will probably go through the same trauma.

You're probably right. Mavs could have similar problems with their large number of free agents. Well I hope they will keep their team together...

[Houndy]

Not just the Nuggets, but I guess many other teams will probably go through the same trauma.

You're probably right. Mavs could have similar problems with their large number of free agents. Well I hope they will keep their team together...

I don't expect any of the Mavs to go to China...

[Lamrock]

China's the least of the Mavs' worries. A hard cap would destroy the team - their backup center is being paid like an all-star!

[benji]

Could be worse, their starting center was too. And probably wants to be again.

This is why I don't buy the hard cap stuff, it'll destroy all the popular teams, the death of the MLE is already going to hurt them enough. Are we really supposed to believe teams like the Bulls, Knicks and Heat are willing to kneecap themselves just when they seem to be a few pieces away? That the Celtics, Lakers, Mavericks don't care about making another run at it? That's a fifth of the league right there.

[_Steve_]

China's the least of the Mavs' worries. A hard cap would destroy the team - their backup center is being paid like an all-star!

I do not expect many of Mavs' free agents got to China. But as you and benji just said, Mavs' could see the team break due to a new CBA...

[NovU]

Tyson Chandler looked like a perfect fit in Dallas but given his history full of injury causing inconsistency, I'd be reluctant to give him a big contract. With hard cap, I guess it won't be possible for Cuban to re-sign him anyways.

[Andrew]

This is why I don't buy the hard cap stuff, it'll destroy all the popular teams, the death of the MLE is already going to hurt them enough. Are we really supposed to believe teams like the Bulls, Knicks and Heat are willing to kneecap themselves just when they seem to be a few pieces away? That the Celtics, Lakers, Mavericks don't care about making another run at it? That's a fifth of the league right there.

You certainly wouldn't think so, yet owners insist they're all on the same page on those issues. If that's really true then maybe the proposed hard cap is still actually fairly high, with the grace period to get under it being very generous. As you've mentioned before they'd likely have amnesty clauses similar to the Allan Houston exception a few years back, which may also be quite generous and appealing to the big market teams who shouldn't be all that keen for a hard cap.