The Debate Thread: Same-Sex Marriage

[Axel The Great]

Paul23, don't tell me you're a communist along with being a feminist?

[Paul23]

What reason is there to have a government but to make sure the proper things as decided by the community are being done?

[koberulz]

To protect the country's borders and the constitutional rights of its citizens.

[shadowgrin]

What reason is there to have a government but to make sure the proper things as decided by the community are being done?

But the community is composed of different people. I don't think you would accept the decision of the gay community....

[Wall St. Peon]

Amazing at the ad homeniums, of course some soul sucker on Wall Street would say that about someone who works hard for America instead of stealing from the people. Nobody should be homeschooled as that allows corrupted views to get into children, while the public schools provide a proper education. Attending a private school is clear evidence of accepting the corporate agenda instead of working for the people.

You know nothing about me, yet you judge based on my name on an internet message board; I reply to you based on the content of your comments. You really are ignorant.

In response to what you say...I work hard for America...I'm in the 30% tax bracket and pay 45% of my bonus in taxes. I donate to charities that I see fit. I volunteer my limited time to different things, usually involving kids. I can be a teacher if I go back to college and student teach. If anyone is "stealing from the people," it's those on welfare that refuse to get jobs or work under the table to get benefits, it's illegal immigrants and anchor babies, it's the federal government and its raiding of social security.

I disagree with you about public schools but agree with you on home schooling. The reason I said what I said about you is due to your incredibly liberal bordering on socialist political views and your neo conservative family views; that would make sense for someone home schooled and not exposed to any sort of diversity...I said the Baptist comment because you're obviously batshit crazy, so that also fits.

If 90% of universities disagree with the objective facts then we need to seize control of the universities and make sure they are teaching proper facts instead of propagating myths. What is the point of a university if they do not instill the proper values and beliefs in the student?

Um...the "facts" you're spewing aren't objective in the least. Your dumbshit and closed minded views of homosexuality when it is proven by science to be hereditary and not a disease or learned prove that you aren't objective. Read my prior responses regarding marriage.

My comment was also referencing another comment of yours in a thread telling someone they need to go to university...you don't need to have a piece of paper to be educated. There's plenty of fucking morons with PhDs and MBAs running around (see George W Bush)...degrees mean nothing. All it shows an employer that you have moderate to above average intelligence and can commit to something for a long period of time and complete it satisfactorily.

This is why your type needs to be eliminated from the conversation

So you want an oligarchy of some sort? You want an official "ruling class?" You want a dictator? God,I hope few people think like you...the shit you're saying is scary.

[benji]

There's nothing "neo-conservative" about his family views. Neo-cons are merely progressives who want to use the military to "better" the planet. They're basically Woodrow Wilson without the racism. So I don't really know why they're called something else other than that they supported Bush's foreign policy so they needed to be differentiated for some reason.

And lots of people think like Paul, tons even, especially in academia. There's one and two-thirds major political parties who operate on that concept.

[Wall St. Peon]

I agree with the neo-con = military to better planet, but I think it also includes the views that Paul expresses about things like gay marriage...

I know tons of people think like Paul, especially in academia...which is why it's scary due to its jealousy, selfishness, naivety, and short-sightedness (utopias of any kind, government run or otherwise, are impossible). It's also why I say he's a contradiction...his political views (socialist or communist), which were likely derived at the college he brags so much about, don't fit with the family values bullshit he's going on about.

[benji]

I don't think neo-conservative views include much of any opinion on gay marriage and to ascribe gay marriage opposition to neo-conservativism would be writing history backwards as anti-gay-marriage existed before the resurrection of Wilsonian foreign policy by people who were previously "liberals" and by any token would consider the gay marriage debate to be largely irrelevant when there are foreign powers to topple and export democracy to. Especially when one would consider anti-gay-marriage to be a majority opinion while Wilsonian foreign policy is a decidedly minority opinion within the populace.

If anything Paul's views are paleo-conservative on these issues, actually just this issue, as he was absurdly feminist in the overweight girls thread. It's probably just an extension of his authoritarian wiles, homosexuality doesn't inherently produce more people to rule over.

[Wall St. Peon]

Fair enough, Ben, fair enough.

[benji]

I found another threat along with Soy Milk, The Golden Girls:
http://christwire.org/2009/10/the-golde ... mosexuals/

[el badman]

Outstanding.
On a side note, that page also features a link that eloquently explains why Betty White is a threat to all grandmothers. An eye opener.

[shadowgrin]

I don't what to believe anymore, now that my perceptions have been shattered by such links.

[Paul23]

I don't know if you heard, but today a gay judge in California violated the Will of the People and shredded the Constitution in order to begin the destruction of the institution of marriage. He was allowed to do this even though he is gay, and thus when he gets married, thanks to his own ruling, will be able to profit from all the gifts he receives at the wedding from his corporate pals. I would not be surprised if a year from now California will also be legalizing polygamy and the ability to marry animals.

Some people think the Supreme Court will stop this travesty of justice but I am skeptical. They recently made it illegal for anyone who is not part of the corporate agenda to run for office and declared that corporations have the right to control people all of which will prevent the American people from actually overcoming the current rule of the Corporate (aka Republican) Party. And they did this while BP was destroying our environment and yet did nothing to make oil drilling illegal or seize the assets of BP.

Actually, that's a good metaphor. Like the Supreme Court refused to stop the corporate assault on the Gulf of Mexico or our elections, they also probably will refuse to stop the corporate assault on our marriages, our families and our children. And I'm sure those corporate whore Republicans will continue to oppose a nominee OUR President made who will actually stand up for American families against the corporations.

[benji]

I had indeed heard this earlier.

[koberulz]

I don't know if you heard, but today a gay judge in California violated the Will of the People and shredded the Constitution

"An outdated and worthless document written by slave owners is not a death pact." Sound familiar?

[shadowgrin]

Yeah Paul23, explain yourself. I was about to be converted to the light of your beliefs but suddenly you contradict the statements you made, which is not good. How can you wage the fight against the corporate pigs if you flip-flop on the stand you make?
I'm starting to think that you're a poser who pretends to be against the evil corporations just to make yourself look cool in your own perception.

[Paul23]

The original Constitution that those teabaggers want is outdated and we've moved beyond it. FDR and LBJ, two of the greatest Presidents and men in world history, went outside that outdated document and created a new Constitution where we have actual rights, and until Bush and his corporate crony appointments to the Supreme Court we protected that new proper Constitution, a living Constitution that allowed us to become a civilized society for a few decades.

Look up the Second Bill of Rights and read a book for once. FDR would never have allowed this violation of the Will of the People at the hands of corporations and a gay judge to occur.

Until we restore that Second Bill of Rights and marriage, we are not a free people.

[benji]

I thought you were just the standard Progressive "majority rule trumps established law, always" kind of guy but now I see you're saying speeches trump the law too. And I just can't get behind that Paul.

[Wall St. Peon]

The original Constitution that those teabaggers want is outdated and we've moved beyond it. FDR and LBJ, two of the greatest Presidents and men in world history, went outside that outdated document and created a new Constitution where we have actual rights, and until Bush and his corporate crony appointments to the Supreme Court we protected that new proper Constitution, a living Constitution that allowed us to become a civilized society for a few decades.

Ah, because we were uncivilized from 1776 until FDR and LBJ, then civilized, and then uncivilized for 8 years? I could be wrong, but pretty sure that FDR and LBJ did not "create a new constitution"...that, in and of itself, would be unconstitutional...

Look up the Second Bill of Rights and read a book for once. FDR would never have allowed this violation of the Will of the People at the hands of corporations and a gay judge to occur.

If you read the legal reason behind it, it's very logical. The justification for the ban on marriage was primarily because gays can't have kids, which is negated by the fact that many people get married and don't want or can't have kids...so the legal basis for upholding the law was flawed from the start, as procreation is not a requirement for marriage. It's very logical.

Until we restore that Second Bill of Rights and marriage, we are not a free people.

The "Second Bill of Rights," per Wiki in bold, with my comments after each:


Employment, with a living wage, - let's see...minimum wage has increased a lot in the last 20 years. Employment can't be guaranteed...that would be communism.
Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies, - this one is debatable. There are lots of anti trusts suits against companies, we just don't hear about them. There's currently one against Intel. You can never have true freedom from unfair competition and monopolies...that would be a guarantee of human morality, which is absurd as the Utopia fallacy you strive for...
Housing - Pretty sure the "housing" one turned out to be a huge problem, no? Between Carter, Clinton, and Bush II...well, they just fucked that up nicely, now didn't they? Enter "recession!"
Medical care, - no one is denied medical care in this country. It's called the Hippocratic oath. People may not be covered by insurance, but they're not denied necessary coverage...they can choose to decline it, but that's on them. Also... Medicare, Medicaid, insurance for children in a great number of states...how can you say this isn't being adhered to?
Education - maybe if the teachers weren't unionized, didn't have an inservice day every Wednesday, mediocrity wasn't celebrated, political correctness wasn't run amok (my ex-wife wasn't taught fractions in middle school because they were "too hard" and some kids "might feel bad because they don't understand them..."), and an emphasis was still placed on math, science, english, and history instead of making sure kids 'feel good about themselves' and "pass," then maybe education wouldn't be so shitty?
Social security Let's see...I've paid over $45,000 into social security since I was 15 years old...so the last 13 years. How much will I get out when I hit age 62? 0. Which is why I'm maxing out my 401k and my IRA and utilizing my stock option plan. Social security is insolvent.

Paul, regardless of what you say about the constitution being no longer accurate...it's true to a point. However, only actual amendments to the constitution modify it...laws can be in effect for 20 years and be declared unconstitutional. It's all about who the judges on the Supreme Court are and who is in power politically....the constitution is one of the most brilliant documents ever written.

Oh, and I only agree with "teabaggers" on two things...taxes should not be raised DURING A RECESSION (I'm not against higher taxes, but it's fucking retarded to raise them when people have lower income and aren't spending money anyway...they'll spend less because they have less disposable income, which runs our economy), and the federal government is spending too much money. All the other shit they say? Whatever.

[Paul23]

The fact that you find any problem with those sensible ideas FDR laid out proves you are not serious about actually making sure people can live their lives.

[shadowgrin]

It still doesn't change the fact that Shane found problems with such sensible ideas. It maybe sensible but the ideas have its flaws.

[puttincomputers]

Wall St. Peon

I would agree with most of what you said except for a one thing.
Only 10% of doctors in the united states take the hypocratic oath. that is why so many of them can suggest abortion.

Paul23- you remind me of my father who ran out on us because he was afraid of my mom! FDR? Are you crazy? He was the worse thing that ever happened to this country! his programs made the great depression worse!
Wait! I thought you said that bailing out banks and the like was a bad thing! FDR DID THAT PLUS A LOT MORE!!!!! And the guy that told FDR it was thing they should came out a few years later and said it was not working. The only reason the great depression was stopped was due to ww2! When the soldiers finally came home we had another dip in the economy due to there not being enough jobs. go read your history.

Hey folks here is video of a speech made by a valedictorian at her high school graduation. She speaks out about indoctrination.

phpBB [video]

[shadowgrin]

Only 10% of doctors in the united states take the hypocratic oath. that is why so many of them can suggest abortion.

I'm under the impression that it's not really required to take that oath. It's merely a formality, so that 10% statistic doesn't mean a thing.

Paul23- you remind me of my father who ran out on us because he was afraid of my mom!

Heck, we're even afraid of you here in the forums puttin. I see that your father is a smart man and knows when to bail. I like his style.


The video isn't clear enough to see whether the chick is doable or not.

[koberulz]

Wall St. Peon

I would agree with most of what you said except for a one thing.
Only 10% of doctors in the united states take the hypocratic oath. that is why so many of them can suggest abortion.

What does abortion have to do with the hippocratic oath?

[puttincomputers]

Only 10% of doctors in the united states take the hypocratic oath. that is why so many of them can suggest abortion.

I'm under the impression that it's not really required to take that oath. It's merely a formality, so that 10% statistic doesn't mean a thing.

Paul23- you remind me of my father who ran out on us because he was afraid of my mom!

Heck, we're even afraid of you here in the forums puttin. I see that your father is a smart man and knows when to bail. I like his style.


The video isn't clear enough to see whether the chick is doable or not.

he was also mad that he didnt have a perfect son.