NBA Elite 11 Community Event Gameplay Recap

[Patr1ck]

NBA Elite 11 Community Event Gameplay Recap

As you may or may not know, several people in the online community were invited to EA Canada in Vancouver for a few days spanning from the last days of May to the beginning of June to play an early build of NBA Elite 11, the successor of the NBA Live franchise. Five members of operationsports.com along with myself, representing the NLSC, were able to partake in the event. We were given a presentation outlining the new direction for NBA Elite 11 to give us an idea of what to expect once we got to play and ask questions about the game along with providing feedback for the developers.

This was probably the earliest community event held during a development cycle and while it left us playing a bare-bones version of the game, it allows the developers a chance to possibly implement our feedback into this year's game. Previous events were later in the development cycle and the game was near complete, leaving them little to no time to implement any feedback.

The new direction of NBA Elite 11 is to put the control, the decision-making, and the execution of those decisions back in the user's hands, rather than having the programming decide the outcome based entirely on ratings. They have also done away with scenario animations that lock two opposing players into a long animation that can't be interrupted. Those animations that were intended to simulate physics and collisions have now been replaced with a real-time physics system, something that has been long overdue in sports games.

Hands-On™ Control is intended to give control of the game back to the user. The controls for a player's upper body and lower body are now separated between the two analog sticks. The left stick controls your legs, the right stick controls your arms, and this works on both offense and defense. For every direction you move the left stick, there is a separate animation for each dribble move. For instance, if I press up on the left stick to move forward and try a crossover, that dribble animation will be completely different than if I move the left stick diagonally up-left or just to the left, or diagonally back-left, or backwards or to the right and so on. Imagine that with all the moves you can do on the right stick including a hesitation dribble, between the legs crossover, behind-the-back and spin move. Now imagine stringing different right stick moves together with different left stick movements and you have plenty of moves with which to try and break down your defender.

There was no dribble animation for pressing down on the right stick, but we brainstormed and came up with a head fake. There was also no way to perform an in-and-out dribble at the time, so we all came up with ideas for what action on the right stick would be feasible. I believe we agreed on a diagonal-down on the ball-hand side. The best thing about the new control system is that there was no feasible delay in moving your player around or performing dribble moves, unlike the last three versions of NBA Live.

Another innovation is the new control for gathers. If you are not sure what those are, they are what happens when a player picks up his dribble while moving, which usually results in a two step or pro hop animation going into a layup or fading jump-shot. Holding down the gather button will start a two step animation in the direction you are moving. During the gather animation you can choose to change the direction of your second step and do a Euro-step by pressing the left stick in the direction you want to go. You can gather in any direction, even away from the basket if you really want to. You can perform a pro hop in any direction by tapping the gather button in conjunction with the left stick. During a gather, you can execute a layup by curling the right stick in a quarter circle from left or right to up. Curling from right to up executes a right handed layup and from left to up executes a left hand layup. To attempt a dunk you need to have the left analog pointed towards the basket, and press up on the right stick. If you don't choose to shoot a layup or dunk, the player will automatically go into a running or fading jump-shot. Performing a running or fading jump-shot in close proximity to the basket looked very funny to us and we said that a layup should automatically be performed when gathering toward the basket. I hope that makes it into the game when it is released.

Tapping the left bumper puts you into a protect ball state, from which you can post up your defender anywhere on the court, or just keep the ball away from a defender's reach. There is a wider variety of post moves than in previous games; you can use the gather button to sweep middle or spin baseline, pro hop, or drop step. Hook-shots can be performed by the same motion on the right stick as layups while you are in a protect ball state. One direction provides a basic hook, while the other direction provides a turnaround hook. Gather into the paint and perform a hook-shot and you get a nice sweeping hook-shot. You can perform some shoulder fakes with the right stick and even change which direction you want to face while posting up.

Shooting is now on the right stick, although users can still choose to give up the extra shot control in favor of a button press. In previous games, the ratings really took over the result of the shot and while they still have an effect on your shot by giving you a bigger or smaller window of your release point and angle, you still control the result. The closer a defender is, the smaller those windows are. Does it mean you can knock down threes with Shaq with perfect timing? It better not, but I don't think it will. To shoot, press and hold up on the right stick and release at the peak of your jump. Release too early and the shot will be short; release too late and the shot will be long. The accuracy on your shot depends on how straight you are pushing up. If you are pushing slightly to the left or right, the ball will stray in that direction. In the build I played, you could shoot a really bad air-ball if you wanted. You have complete control of your bank shots, too. Hold the right stick a little bit longer and at a slight angle and try to bank the shot in. It didn't take too much time to get used to it.

One thing I don't like about it is that by holding the button down longer, your player will be coming down from the peak of his jump in order to make a bank shot and it just looks bad. I think using the left analog stick while you are in the air to choose the angle you want to bank from would be a better idea, that way you can just release at the top of your jump and make the bank look natural. You can shoot leaners and fadeaways by shooting while pressing the left stick in a direction. Shot fakes can be performed by tapping up on the right stick.

Defense is also played with the analog sticks. Obviously the left stick once again controls your movement, while the right stick controls the arms. Press down for a steal, or up for a block or rebound. You can also press left or right to bring one arm up which can be used for guarding a passing lane. No longer are canned animations used for blocks, steals, and rebounds. The developers use "ball tracking" to blend between animations so that a defender's arm is actually trying to reach where the ball is, so if the ball is low, they will reach low and if it is high, they will reach high. The same goes for blocking animations and rebounds. If they can add rim and backboard tracking maybe players will actually grab the rim on dunks and not shoot layups into the back of the backboard. You can body up a ballhandler by getting close to him. This is a complete physical reaction and not a canned scenario, you can break out of it at any moment and back off if need be.

In the build I played, playing defense left something to be desired as the real-time physics did not shine during defensive moments. The defender hardly impeded the ball handler during gathers, pro hops, and in air layups or dunks. The only times a defender affected the shooter in air was when I actually blocked their layup or dunk. Even taking charges did not cause any effect on the player attempting a layup or dunk. The blocking animation looked really bad, too. The player didn't even look like they bent their knees and they jumped incredibly quick, though I believe that was just a place holder animation. I don't think they will release a product with that animation in the final build. We provided feedback about having different types of ways to contest shots and I hope the producers will be able to get them into the final game.

One of the issues we found while playing was while you were on defense bodying up an offensive player, they could easily press directly into the defender and perform a crossover back and forth just pushing the defender back with every crossover. Obviously the defender could take a charge or steal the ball, but in real life, in a real physical situation, the offensive player should not be able to do that unless he is much stronger. When we were given a tour of the developer space, we reproduced the issue and they fixed it in a few seconds. I hope the developers have fixed these issues since they were touched upon during the community event.

I can't say much about passing. Freestyle passing is still there, and directional passing was said to have been improved. The ball tracking feature used by the hands will allow the receiver to catch the ball at any height. I was also told there will be tip in dunks.

Image quality has been tweaked as well. In NBA Live 10, the player's skin was very over-saturated with color. Player likeness immediately improved when they toned it down, as they showed side by side comparisons of players in both NBA Live 10 and NBA Elite 11. They have also redone the jerseys so the texture does not stretch and warp the logos, names or numbers on the jersey like they did in NBA Live 10.

That about wraps it up. Thanks to Yaw the NBA Elite Community Manager for arranging the event and thanks to EA Sports and the NBA Elite 11 developers for having us.

[shadowgrin]

Good read. Now recap the game between you guys and the dev team.

[JaoSming]

so with the real time physics, can you just plow into players and have them fall? I mean, is there any "ragdoll" effects. Does it stop clipping? Do animations change for collisions to prevent clipping?

[Andrew]

Great write-up Pat, appreciate the job you did representing us at the event.

Aside from the new controls, what were your other impressions of gameplay in terms of players playing realistically, recognising mismatches and moving without the ball? Were there any other prominent bugs or issues that stood out? I know from past experience it's hard to catch everything when you're trying to take in the new stuff but any insight you can provide there would be appreciated.

[Andrew]

Great write-up Pat, appreciate the job you did representing us at the event.

Aside from the new controls, what were your other impressions of gameplay in terms of players playing realistically, recognising mismatches and moving without the ball? Were there any other prominent bugs or issues that stood out? I know from past experience it's hard to catch everything when you're trying to take in the new stuff but any insight you can provide there would be appreciated.

[Patr1ck]

I didn't mention this in the report, but we only got to play one on one, just like all the videos and reports you are seeing. The reason was because the 5 on 5 gameplay was not ready at the time. We got to see some 5 on 5 gameplay as some of the developers worked on it, but one of the main issues was that the cpu tracked the ball handler perfectly. I personally wouldn't have found that to be a problem for me, I would have just overlooked it and checked out what was available, maybe did some screens to get open opportunities or something.

so with the real time physics, can you just plow into players and have them fall? I mean, is there any "ragdoll" effects. Does it stop clipping? Do animations change for collisions to prevent clipping?

Yes and no. The defender held his ground unless they took a charge. Like I pointed out in the report, the offensive player did not seem to be affected at all and the offensive player didn't show any animation that he just ran over a guy or dunked on him. Again, I hope these are things that were just not implemented in the build we got to play. I didn't notice any clipping. For your last question it's also a yes and no. If you bodied up the ballhandler, his moves would be different and he wouldn't gain as much ground. That is aside from the issue we found that they later fixed where just pushing the two players against each other and attempting back and forth crossovers with the ball handler just pushed the defender back, even if we tried to match the left and right movements perfectly. It was hard to look at due to no instant replay function, but there was nothing that stuck out as obvious clipping. I think that has to do with the ball tracking, since the player's hand actually goes for the ball instead of a pre defined animation where an arm could go through a leg or other part of the body. Now, when you actually stole the ball, blocked a dunk or layup, the offensive player had a physical reaction. The only other physical reactions I noticed were when the defender stuck to the ball handler. There may have been some self-clipping of the shooter's legs during an awkward gather. I was loving the gather and trying out all the different directions, including all the possible changes of directions. Not only could you go to the basket and then take a step to the left or right, but you could slow up by pressing back and taking a very short step. By doing a gather forward and then quickly backward, it looked like the player was walking in place for a moment, and his legs may have clipped each other because I was trying such awkward directional changes that nobody would do in real life.

Aside from the new controls, what were your other impressions of gameplay in terms of players playing realistically, recognising mismatches and moving without the ball? Were there any other prominent bugs or issues that stood out? I know from past experience it's hard to catch everything when you're trying to take in the new stuff but any insight you can provide there would be appreciated.

Since we played a bare bones version of the game in one on one, and if I recall correctly, there weren't any actual ratings tied into the players during our play time. The biggest issues I had were on defense trying to defend a gather and the blocking animation. I excused the blocking animation because it was just a raw animation of jumping in the air and it didn't follow the same rules of gravity that the offensive player followed when performing jumpshots, layups, dunks, or pro hops. I'm sure it was just a raw animation that they were using to tweak the shot blocking timing and ball tracking. It didn't look like the defense was as polished as the offensive controls. The main issue I had was that the ball handler was not being effected by defensive collisions while in a gather, layup or dunk animation. You could take a charge but it looked more like a flop as the offensive player just moved slightly, but nothing showed in his animation that he just collided with somebody. Come to think about it, I am not sure if any game to date has done that. The only time an offensive player had a physical reaction other than during dribbling was when the ball got stripped or his layup or dunk got blocked.

[Andrew]

Ah, OK. Guess that limits the questions we can ask.

In regards to the difficulty in defending gathers, is there any kind of defensive assist control this year to help you stay with your man and challenge shots automatically (albeit loosely) as in the last couple of games?

[Patr1ck]

Not really. There is a little helper that keeps you close to your man once you are in a certain proximity, but it's almost unnoticeable. No more automatic contests that I know of. I think that goes against the idea of giving control back totheuser. I guess with the speed of the blocking animation in the build I played you could react pretty well to contest a shot, which I haven't thought of. We talked about adding controls for different contests like the difference between an outstretched arm contest to go along with the swat contest and possibly a distraction-type contest where the defender just sort of jumps by the shooter with an outstretched arm.

[Andrew]

Fair enough. So long as we'll be able to challenge shots and both the user and CPU aren't able to walk into the paint and score at will (or abuse pro hops as in NBA Live 2004) in the final product with our own smarts and stick skills, its absence isn't a big problem I guess.

Your write-up's been pretty well received over at OS too.

[wabenne]

Hello. My questions are number 1 how long did it take you to get use to the new controls? with the right stick being for dribbling and shooting did you ever find your self trying to do a dribbling move and while moving the rs you shot(not wanting to) the ball when trying to do a move?

[wabenne]

comparing 2010 with the new rs/ls moves how much of an improvment dribble/shooting/ and movement do you think there has been?

[Patr1ck]

Of course there were times when I shot the ball accidentally, but that was mostly from experimenting and trying to find different moves. It's all about your skill on the stick, though. I took me about 5-10 minutes to get used to the dribbling controls since there were shades of freestyle memories. That's one of the reasons I kept shooing because freestyle used to use the entire stick, not just the bottom half. I think their has been significant improvement across the board. You have much more control and variety over your shots, dribbling and movement. All the moves of last year can be performed in a way with the new Elite control scheme. The running fadeaway's, or hopping leaner's, the spin gather layup, the floaters. I believe everything except those double clutch reverse layups could be done.

We mentioned that to the producers about adding more depth to in-air control. For instance, I would like to be able to use the right stick to control the ball in the air. Say I press down and my player peform's a clutch to control the ball with two hands or avoid a block attempt. Or pressing left or right to either stretch your arm out or switch hands to avoid block attempts. As of right now, you can only change from a dunk to a layup.

[Andrew]

That's something I'll definitely have to iron out in the practice gym, I can see myself tapping up on the stick out of habit. Good to hear that you started to adjust fairly quickly though.

[cjb98]

every things great but i fust wanna tell ask u please to simply try to get better ghraphics because ur gameplay is simply the best by far but please please try toget better graphics and something like my player mod because iv been playing live forever but if there is not better ghraphics then i might start playing 2k and good choice of cover player so please bette ghraphics please (:

[Andrew]

Just to clear things up, we're not EA Sports. We're an unofficial fansite, we're not involved with the development of the game beyond sending in suggestions on behalf of the community.

[cjb98]

uh duh

[cjb98]

and they read these

[Andrew]

Please don't double post. No need to take that attitude either, a fair amount of people have addressed us over the years as though were are the developers or affiliated with EA Sports. Your post seemed to suggest you'd made the same mistake which is why I posted the clarification.

[Axel The Great]

Andrew, you're so tolerant. I would've pissed all over my post reply. But then that's me, I'm easy to anger.

[cjb98]

sorry for being rude

[Axel The Great]

It's ok. You'll find people who are worse here if you stick around.

[Andrew]

sorry for being rude

No harm done. Hope you enjoy your time here.

[Axel The Great]

Likin' the new avatar Andrew.

[HoosierDaddy]

Hey guys, figured I'd make an account over here and get to chat with a different community outside of OS. If you guys haven't checked out my community day blog, you can head over to OS and check it out under the same username I use here. I''ll also provide a C&P version temporarily, if this is considered "hi-jacking" Pat's thread, please ignore and remove and I apologize in advance.

Right from the start, let's dismiss the thought that EA has forgotten about us hardcore gamers. During my stay in Canada, I was pleasantly surprised about the direction the EA crew is headed for this year's upcoming title. Rumors have been circulating regarding the "direction" NBA Elite 11 may be headed, but you'll be relieved to know that many of the developers who worked on NBA Live 2005 are now back on board for the 2011 title. In my opinion, Live 2005 was the last relevant title for EA Sports over the last 5+ years. Granted, Live 10 made huge strides, but the series from 06-09 was a joke honestly. To know that many key developers are back with the basketball title is a very refreshing thing especially with the success some of the earlier installments of Live had between 1995-2005. My opinions of this title, are just that, my honest opinion of the game and where it's headed. My time spent at EA was to come away from the event with my own personal feelings towards the game, a no nonsense approach or marketing ploy, tell it like it is. Being a hardcore gamer I strive to have the most realistic type basketball game there can be. Due to early development cycle, the build we were given was not nearly a complete game, but you couldn't help but come away impressed by the strides the EA crew has made in such a short time. My initial reaction to the rumors of a name change were not good, especially with the vague mentions of a new "direction." I figured EA would stray away from a "sim type game" and focus more on the casual gamer. My thoughts regarding that were based on the "Elite" name and the attention that would be drawn to the offensive stars of the league, while completely disregarding other aspects of the game. Obviously there are a lot of details that I can not divulge due to the NDA I signed, but I hope you guys enjoy the experience I'm about to share.

After flying from my hometown to Chicago, I hopped on a connecting flight and headed towards Vancouver. The flight wasn't too bad, about 3 1/2 hours with no turbulence whatsoever. Since I arrived early, I had the opportunity to walk around the city and take it all in, since my hotel wasn't ready for checking in yet. Vancouver is a beautiful city, with very friendly people and extremely busy traffic for the most part. Due to the weather, most of the days spent there were filled with lots of rain, but that didn't hinder us from having a good time. Finally, I was able to check in to my hotel and relax a bit before meeting up with Yaw (the EA community manager) and the rest of the community guys who were able to attend, down in the lobby. We all headed to the Kingston Grill for dinner and wasted no time at all diving into our visions for the upcoming title and what we felt needed to be implemented into the game. The key component in all of this, is that EA WANTS to hear what we have to say and proved this by allowing us to attend such an event so early in the process, for the first time ever. The community guys and the EA crew hit it off early, we had no trouble voicing our opinions and relating to one another. All of the controller throwing moments in year's past titles were discussed, as well as all of the things that we liked, or simply needed to be improved upon. We all had about 3 hour chat that just kept going and I loved every minute of it. We finally decided to call it a night and get ready for the next day to actually see the vision EAC wanted to take this 2011 title.

Waking up for day two was exciting. I've always wanted to take part in a process such as this and was motivated to start the day. We met in the hotel lobby and took taxis to the EA Sports HQ. After entering the building, we were taken to a room to introduce ourselves and give initial reactions about Live 2010 and what we felt needed to be done to improve upon last year's title to the marketing team. After a brief conversation with all of them and footage being taken, we had the opportunity to meet different producers of the game. They presented us with slideshow presentations and videos about the direction they wanted to take and what changes were being made. They provided us with lunch while certain producers spoke to us about features in the game that can not be discussed until a further date. I think I can speak for all of the community guys in saying we were all very impressed, but still wanted to get our hands on the game and form our own opinions. After about 2 hours of playing the game, with developers surrounding us and answering any questions we may have
had, as well as wanting our opinions of what needed to be removed, added or fixed, I must say I was very impressed with the amount of control you will have in this game. The producers stressed to us that we needed to get the controls figured out first before we start playing against other people. Just like in anything you do, you have to practice to become good. The learning curve with these controls will vary between users. Personally, I really had very few problems with a majority of the controls, as I'm used to playing games that require a heavy dose of "stick skills" Many people will suggest that EA is hyping up another new feature and that it's all gimmicks, but I must say once you play this game, it will be very difficult to play any other way. I have to stress, I won't be able to answer any questions about any of this until the embargo date is lifted, sorry.

After the gaming session we were able to get a first-hand look on how developing a game year-to-year is done. The amount of work that goes into these games is unimaginable and requires LOTS of time. EA has implemented "ANT" (Animation Tool Kit) into this year's game so bugs or fixes that would normally take hours, or even days to fix, would be resolved in minutes. We fixed 2 issues with the game in 3 minutes, while using this system with one of the producers, and that's not an exaggeration. The EA crew is no joke, things could easily get out of hand and it was impressive how smooth the team works together and how open the dialog is between the producers. A development cycle is only so long, so each year a priority list is created and things are rated as a team of importance and time. We were fortunate enough to attend this event so early, that many of the ideas we had could possibly be implemented into this year's title, this was by design and I thank Yaw for arranging this. One thing is for sure, these guys KNOW basketball. Most of them play basketball on a regular
basis themselves, so it was a refreshing sign to see how passionate they were about the game. I understand many of the frustrations by members on forums about David Littman being a "hockey guy" and not knowing much about basketball, but all of you need to understand this is a TEAM. After getting your hands on the game, your fears will be put to rest regarding the direction "Litty" is taking this game. I would also like to address the fear some of you have regarding Mike Wang's departure. Again, one guy does not make a title, a team does. Live 10 made great strides and each side decided to go their separate ways respectfully, leave it at that. The impressive thing regarding this whole session was that the producers were sitting right beside us taking notes and being receptive to what we had to say. It was a great feeling and I appreciate the opportunity to use my ideas to help make a better basketball title. Just like previous days, while at dinner, we spoke for hours about things that could be added or removed to increase the replay value of NBA Elite 11. Almost every night, we didn't get back to the hotel until midnight, and keep in mind, producers were sitting with us this entire time! I was tired and ready to get back at it the next morning. While in my hotel, I decided to write down things I had on my mind that I either forgot to mention or could possibly get lost in translation over the first day.

As I mentioned in the previous paragraph, I was ready to wake up early and start the day all over again. After breakfast, we went back to EAC and started the day off with a real basketball game between the community guys and the EA crew. We won the first game (15-8, I believe) but they ended up taking the next 2 games from us. After the third game, we switched teams, mixed everyone together, and just played ball. It was great to get up and down the court and just have fun with the guys. After hitting the showers and eating lunch we had another gaming session. I took this opportunity to try the things I wrote down in my notes that I wanted to test and again, as we were doing this the developers were sitting right next to us. All of us pitched ideas to them as they feverishly wrote down our ideas and agreed with what we had to say for the most part. Because the game was an early build, mapping the controls wasn't finalized so we had an opportunity to give ideas as to what could be done on many of the buttons/sticks. Most of my time was put into doing this, as well as the minor touches that needed to be implemented into the game to make it feel more authentic. I want the most authentic, life-like basketball game there can be, one that makes you feel like you're watching a game on TV, but the outcome is totally in your hands as a user. I must say that this new direction of control feels so natural and makes so much sense, it will be hard not to love it. There were ideas that we suggested that will obviously not make it into this year's title, but the producers loved our ideas and didn't dismiss adding such features into upcoming titles in the future. Ideally, if they could get nearly half of the things we suggested, which is definitely possible given the amount of time remaining, NBA Elite 11 could take a major leap forward in the sports gaming community. That's not including all of the ideas/features they have yet to implement on their end, so I'm extremely excited to see what the final product will look like when the game drops this fall. Now remember, this blog is not to sway one's opinion about a game or to make a switch from 2K to EA, but all I ask is that you at least give it a shot. It's not going to be for everyone, that's just the truth, but I feel a lot of people will be glad they attempted to play this game and will thoroughly pleased with the outcome. Most people don't like change, or are unable to embrace it, if you are one of those people - at least have an open mind, if you aren't satisfied - you have other options for basketball in 2011.

During our break from our final gaming session of Elite 11, we also had time to play NBA Jam during this event. I already posted a minor reaction on another thread regarding this game, but again no information can be released regarding this game yet. All I can say is NBA JAM IS BACK and I will definitely consider buying a Wii just for this game, without a doubt.

After our time during that day/evening, we were eating dinner and again sitting with producers until nearly midnight about ideas. I was very impressed with how receptive many of them were and was very appreciative that they would actually take time out of their busy schedules to spend time with us. This being my first community event, and hopeful for many more to come in the future, I was very grateful and want to thank the EA Sports company for such an amazing opportunity. Being a gamer for so many years, it was a surreal experience and honestly a dream come true.

I hope this blog provides insight to all of you in the community, and hopefully will allow you to consider giving EA's NBA title another chance because trust me, you won't be disappointed.

[Patr1ck]

Recaps are recaps. Glad to see you registered, Greg.