Politik.

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Politik.

Postby benji on Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:47 pm

This is like "Letting Off Steam" but just for politics. It was originally called "bitch about politics thread" but I decided to make it classier. Respond to what's going on, or just drop your own. If you're Joe and want to bitch about Italy, or Jae and want to be a horrible racist who doesn't understand other cultures, or me and can bitch or be sarcastically bitter about anything.

I'll start it off. With one of the most incredible things I've ever seen come from a Speaker of the House. (Majority leaders do this crap all the time. See: Reid, Harry.)
Pelosi is a lunatic.
These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades.

Health care is complex. It touches every American life. It drives our economy. People must be allowed to learn the facts.

The first fact is that health insurance reform will mean more patient choice. It will allow every American who likes his or her current plan to keep it. And it will free doctors and patients to make the health decisions that make the most sense, not the most profits for insurance companies.

Reform will mean stability and peace of mind for the middle class. Never again will medical bills drive Americans into bankruptcy; never again will Americans be in danger of losing coverage if they lose their jobs or if they become sick; never again will insurance companies be allowed to deny patients coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

The best part is not the un-American thing (we'll get to that later) it's this. They're ascribing all these "facts" to "reform" right? But in the same editorial they say:
Already, three House committees have passed this critical legislation and over August, the two of us will work closely with those three committees to produce one strong piece of legislation that the House will approve in September.

That's right, all these facts are derived from something that does not exist. There is no specific legislation (HR3200 is one of many and the largest and most likely to advance) yet not only Pelosi but Obama is ascribing that some "reform" is coming that will not only lower costs, but cover all people and improve care. (And not involve the government, even as it becomes the lone declarer of health insurance.)

But. As they say, pick two.

Dissent was patriotic until Jan 20, 2009. Now it's un-American, terrorist and Nazi-like to question your betters in Congress. "Community organizing" to protest anything and everything was the highest form of patriotism, now it's despicable. (Unless you're say, part of Organizing for America and support the President.)

Obama wants, like most on The Left, a single player system but at the same time he also knows and admits it can never work in a market the size of the U.S. as there's no way to shift the cost onto others.

Anyway back to that "drowning out opposing views" good thing the Democrat allies aren't telling people to do exactly that or it'd look pretty bad. When they aren't allegedly assaulting people.

That's all I can muster for now, I'm distracted with other things. I'll be back, this is replacing the Totalitarianism Watch thread btw.

Basically, if it's politics, feel free to use this until we have enough people to split off threads.
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Re: Politik.

Postby J@3 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:15 pm

I'm annoyed that an already flawed two party system here is now becoming more of a monopoly because the current opposition is completely inept and will get absolutely obliterated in our next election. John Howard was in power for four terms, every term he had a legitimate opponent and even though he won them all bar the last one obviously (sometimes comfortably) you at least felt like you were being given the option of voting for an opposition who had a chance to take over. This is not the case now. John Howard retires, his number 2 relegates himself to the back bench and suddenly we're left with Brendon Nelson (who's biggest media claim to fame is that he insulted his own party while he was a member of the party he is now opposing... yeah) and whom everyone hated. He does an awful job and is voted out by his own party, the multi millionaire Malcolm Turnbull is voted in I'm assuming to relate to the rest of us, because we all know what it's like to have that sort of money, and now his party want him gone as well because he's just as useless as Nelson was.

The Newspoll in today's Australian newspaper has the Prime Minister dropping by one point to 65 per cent, but remaining far in front of Mr Turnbull, on 17 per cent.

The Federal Government has also kept its lead over the Coalition on a two-party preferred basis, remaining in front on 57 to 43 per cent.


Wtf is the point? If I voted I would've voted for Rudd in the last election, but so far I'm not a fan of what he's been doing... yet by the time the next election comes around, for one Turnbull will be gone and ultimately replaced by someone even worse because there is NO ONE in the Liberal party who can take votes off Rudd (except Peter Costello, who was Howard's #2 but I think he's retired now) so the party will be in even more of a mess than it is now. I could see Labor staying in power for the next 10+ years purely by virtue of the Liberal party's own incompetence. Even if Rudd ruins the country in that time, he'll stay in power because the alternative could be even worse.
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Re: Politik.

Postby The X on Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:18 pm

Queensland State Government is even worse. We have this bitch Anna Bligh (Labour) who doesn't know what the hell she is doing. But the Opposition (Springborg) was even more incompetent. So much so that I voted for the Daylight Savings Party, which was probably the first time ever that I've thrown my vote away as there wasn't one suitable candidate. There wasn't even the lesser of two evils as they were both as bigger dipshits as each other.

As for nationally, I must admit that I did vote for Rudd & now after seeing what he has done/hasn't done (i.e. he's a squirmy bullshit artist), I do regret throwing my vote away on him. In my haste to get rid of that clown John Howard, I helped vote in some other tool.

I know next Federal election I will vote vote randomly, but not for the major players or their crappy supporters (i.e. Greens, Democrats, Christian Coalition).
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Re: Politik.

Postby benji on Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:28 pm

I can relate, and I think a lot people can. I liked Bush personally (and Cheney and Rumsfeld personally if not politically) and voted for him based around his liberal foreign policy and Social Security reform, along with hope of his epic first term continuing even though I thought he should have been impeached along with the simple fact that John Kerry could never be allowed to be President. (Plus I felt like voting after ditching on the prior election.) But this time around they offered John McCain, and I could never vote for that. (Plus it wouldn't matter, there was no way Obama could lose, especially against a campaign as incompetent as that.)

There's no Republicans, there's certainly never any Democrats that can be voted in. Obama can only lose re-election if an epic figure like a Reagan comes along. (There's not any.) So we're stuck with this. The best hope is the counter-reaction and a Republican Congress like Clinton had. But there's one problem, Clinton was a brilliant politician who agreed to become a true liberal to govern and wound up being a top five President of the last decade because he rejected statism. Obama's entire core is statism. He doesn't even care what the bills say, as long as he can sign them and expand government power and declare he's "done something" and the only option other than what he wanted was "doing nothing." See: the stimulus, cap and trade, health insurance reform, et al.

Western politics are damaged by two party systems. You have two options, people who will screw people who aren't you, or people who will screw everyone. I hope the Tea Parties can actually formulate and develop a body politic. Ross Perot could have won in 1992 but he bailed out and handed the election to Clinton. Perot would've been a lousy President but it would've restructured our politics.

Big government doesn't work, everyone realizes this, but so many are committed to dominating while paying off others to keep them in power.

Smaller government is the answer to so many complaints and problems, but people just want to entrust more power in the hands of people they hate whenever the wrong party is in power. And who have police power and an unchecked law in their hands.

Funny how fear of being watched and prosecuted for "political beliefs" disappeared with just one election.
The X wrote:I know next Federal election I will vote vote randomly, but not for the major players or their crappy supporters (i.e. Greens, Democrats, Christian Coalition).

I know a lot of people feel this way. A third party solution needs to form even if it loses for a few years it will decide elections and thus become relevant.

Do people just want to be left alone? Let's try it for a change.

Third parties are only third parties until they win.
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Re: Politik.

Postby The X on Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:13 pm

benji wrote:
The X wrote:I know next Federal election I will vote vote randomly, but not for the major players or their crappy supporters (i.e. Greens, Democrats, Christian Coalition).

I know a lot of people feel this way. A third party solution needs to form even if it loses for a few years it will decide elections and thus become relevant.

Do people just want to be left alone? Let's try it for a change.

Third parties are only third parties until they win.

At one stage (late 90's I think) when I was living in New Zealand, third parties (Alliance & NZ First) actually started to gain quite a big share of votes (can't recall, but at least 10-15% I believe) & one one occasion I'm pretty sure they gained the balance of power. Unfortunately each party seemed to lose its way & sold out a bit & joined coalitions. I guess voters then realised that their votes for a third party are essentially a vote for either one of the two major parties, so they stopped voting for them.

Sorry, I'm a bit sketchy on the details as I was a teenager at the time so politics weren't at my forefront mind as much as say NBA Live in its glory years.

I guess as long as you need 50% of votes to get Bills through the lower house, it's always going to be a 2 party preferred system.

EDIT: Here in Australia it is compulsory to vote otherwise you can get fined, so for people who wonder why I vote if I don't like any candidates, that is why.
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Re: Politik.

Postby J@3 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:28 pm

I never enrolled to vote so I don't get fined for it. People might think if I want to change things I should vote etc but stfu. I don't like being forced to vote, to me that doesn't represent any sort of freedom, it's nice to be able to have a say in who should be leading your country but at the same time I'd rather that be an option rather than a demand.
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Re: Politik.

Postby The X on Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:36 pm

Although my wife doesn't agree with that sentiment, I do. The way I see it is if you are forcing somebody to vote, they are likely to be an uninformed voter, which means they will either "throw" their vote away or they will just vote with the crowd (how else did Anna Bligh win Qld state election?!?). Why have people who don't care about the result helping to decide the outcome. That's like having some guy play minutes on your basketball team who doesn't play or even like basketball because he is required to play one sport. Shouldn't happen.
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Re: Politik.

Postby J@3 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:56 pm

Or letting Asians vote for the All-Star participants.
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Re: Politik.

Postby Null17 on Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:09 pm

Jae wrote:I never enrolled to vote so I don't get fined for it. People might think if I want to change things I should vote etc but stfu. I don't like being forced to vote, to me that doesn't represent any sort of freedom, it's nice to be able to have a say in who should be leading your country but at the same time I'd rather that be an option rather than a demand.


I'm in the same situation. We still haven't had a candidate that I want to vote for. I don't want just vote the lesser evil.
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Re: Politik.

Postby benji on Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:51 pm

Jumping off something Remi Spencer (of defending murderers/rapists and Red Eye fame) said, I'm going to go out on a limb.

Socialism is bad.

Thoughts?

Maybe collectivism would be better to say?

Also,
FOXNEWS O'REILLY 3,814,000
FOXNEWS HANNITY 3,118,000
FOXNEWS BECK 2,417,000
FOXNEWS GRETA 2,388,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 1,243,000
MSNBC MADDOW 1,082,000
CNNHN GRACE 875,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 710,000

What's wrong with these 6 million+ people? (The 875K watching Nancy Grace being the worst offenders.) To be fair I cut out:
FOXNEWS BAIER 1,988,000
FOXNEWS SHEP SMITH 1,833,000
CNN KATHY GRIFFIN 810,000

Kathy was sitting in for Larry King iirc. (I consider his more of a "celebrity interview" program than punditry.)

Since I was youtubing after thinking about it. Here's some Firing Line clips from the 60s, they're all the first part of a bigger, longer debate:
phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]
(Buckley is so at his best in this one. I mean his mannerisms, it's Buckley to the max. Look at 2:30+ when Chomsky brings up the Nazi's and he does the "pursue" motion. Or him jumping forward on "Coca-Cola" or giving any date.)

Frank Zappa on Crossfire (this is pretty hilarious, if you watch one, I suggest it):
phpBB [video]


Need a modern day Firing Line and old skewl Crossfire, less Nancy Grace.
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Re: Politik.

Postby Andrew on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:47 pm

The X wrote:As for nationally, I must admit that I did vote for Rudd & now after seeing what he has done/hasn't done (i.e. he's a squirmy bullshit artist), I do regret throwing my vote away on him. In my haste to get rid of that clown John Howard, I helped vote in some other tool.


I appreciated the $900 but apart from that, I'm with you on that one. I suppose at the end of the day he's a politician and it's not like any of them keep campaign promises except rushing a few of the more feasible ones close to the next election to try and buy a few votes in swinging electorates. The situation with the Internet has left me a bit disgusted in particular.

The X wrote:I know next Federal election I will vote vote randomly, but not for the major players or their crappy supporters (i.e. Greens, Democrats, Christian Coalition).


I'm honestly thinking of donkey voting. I don't think I could bring myself to vote for the Liberals, especially not while Turnbull's the party leader. I'd definitely be in favour of voting being an optional rather than mandatory. I think a fair amount of people would still vote out of genuine interest or simply being conditioned to do it but for those who feel strongly enough about not voting or not feeling strongly enough to vote, they should be able to abstain from voting without getting fined. For all the donkey voting that I'm sure must go on, it seems a waste of time, money and resources to enforce it.
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Re: Politik.

Postby The X on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:04 pm

Yep, the donkey will surely come out in force next election.
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Re: Politik.

Postby Andrew on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:09 pm

Of course, I talk a big game but let's see what happens when it comes to the next election. I've thought about doing it before and ultimately relented and taken the whole "lesser of two evils" approach. This time might be different though, I might just get in the booth and follow through with the donkey vote.
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Re: Politik.

Postby J@3 on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:29 pm

I'd probably vote for Pauline Hanson if she ran again, and I was devastated that I was too young to vote for Mario Fenech when he ran years ago. I am all about the donkey vote.
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Re: Politik.

Postby benji on Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:01 am

in an interview with the Detroit News Monday, Senator Debbie Stabenow (D., Mich.) - recently appointed to the Senate Energy Committee - made clear that fighting the climate crisis is her top priority.

"Climate change is very real," she confessed as she embraced cap and trade's massive tax increase on Michigan industry - at the same time claiming, against all the evidence, that it would not lead to an increase in manufacturing costs or energy prices. "Global warming creates volatility. I feel it when I'm flying. The storms are more volatile. We are paying the price in more hurricanes and tornadoes."

I have an idiot for my Junior Senator.
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Re: Politik.

Postby J@3 on Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:43 am

Natural disasters are currency now?
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Re: Politik.

Postby el badman on Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:55 am

On a side note, I was always wondering what state benji was from...
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Re: Politik.

Postby benji on Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:41 am

:? I'm sure I've mentioned it multiple times on here.

Then again there's people on here who long thought I was or am a black Christian chef.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Re: Politik.

Postby Andrew on Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:15 pm

benji wrote:
in an interview with the Detroit News Monday, Senator Debbie Stabenow (D., Mich.) - recently appointed to the Senate Energy Committee - made clear that fighting the climate crisis is her top priority.

"Climate change is very real," she confessed as she embraced cap and trade's massive tax increase on Michigan industry - at the same time claiming, against all the evidence, that it would not lead to an increase in manufacturing costs or energy prices. "Global warming creates volatility. I feel it when I'm flying. The storms are more volatile. We are paying the price in more hurricanes and tornadoes."

I have an idiot for my Junior Senator.


She seems the type to fall for the old dihydrogen monoxide gag.
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Re: Politik.

Postby benji on Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:55 am

Nice article by John Mackey, CEO of Whole Foods, on some better ways to reform health care: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000142 ... 65070.html
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”
—Margaret Thatcher

With a projected $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009, several trillions more in deficits projected over the next decade, and with both Medicare and Social Security entitlement spending about to ratchet up several notches over the next 15 years as Baby Boomers become eligible for both, we are rapidly running out of other people’s money. These deficits are simply not sustainable. They are either going to result in unprecedented new taxes and inflation, or they will bankrupt us.

While we clearly need health-care reform, the last thing our country needs is a massive new health-care entitlement that will create hundreds of billions of dollars of new unfunded deficits and move us much closer to a government takeover of our health-care system. Instead, we should be trying to achieve reforms by moving in the opposite direction—toward less government control and more individual empowerment. Here are eight reforms that would greatly lower the cost of health care for everyone:
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Re: Politik.

Postby BigKaboom2 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:52 pm

God forbid anyone cover this story:
(CNSNews.com) - Mark Lloyd, newly appointed Chief Diversity Officer of the Federal Communications Commission, has called for making private broadcasting companies pay licensing fees equal to their total operating costs to allow public broadcasting outlets to spend the same on their operations as the private companies do.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52435

Take your total operating costs, double it, and give half to the government so they can fund your unpopular competitors! Surely not a big deal for the fat cats of Big Broadcasting.
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Re: Politik.

Postby JaoSming on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:27 pm

No article link but here in Taxachusetts they recently upped the sales tax from 5% to 6.25%. Example for the dummies, if I buy something that costs 20 dollars, at the register I pay 21.25.

Every year, at least once, somtimes twice, we have a tax free weekend where we can buy shit and pay no tax. Well this year we aren't getting one so a few companies are saying, come buy our shit this weekend, and we will deduct the tax off the price so you dont have to pay any tax.

Well, the guys is Boston didn't like that and have said that it is illegal for businesses to advertise that....
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Re: Politik.

Postby vinceair on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:29 am

Politicians are great liers. And they get big amount of money because they can lie so well.

Take it with irony.
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Re: Politik.

Postby benji on Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:03 am

BigKaboom2 wrote:God forbid anyone cover this story:
(CNSNews.com) - Mark Lloyd, newly appointed Chief Diversity Officer of the Federal Communications Commission, has called for making private broadcasting companies pay licensing fees equal to their total operating costs to allow public broadcasting outlets to spend the same on their operations as the private companies do.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52435

Take your total operating costs, double it, and give half to the government so they can fund your unpopular competitors! Surely not a big deal for the fat cats of Big Broadcasting.

Just private entities is not true competition, it's monopoly by private entities. A true free market is one in which the government sets all the rules and then competes with private entities without having to follow accounting law nor turn a profit. If it's good enough for other countries, that means we must do it here. A powerful competitive public broadcasting would have to put on any programs the American people want, not just what greedy executives decide the American people want to see. That's true freedom. That's choice. That's change.
JaoSming wrote:No article link but here in Taxachusetts they recently upped the sales tax from 5% to 6.25%. Example for the dummies, if I buy something that costs 20 dollars, at the register I pay 21.25.

Every year, at least once, somtimes twice, we have a tax free weekend where we can buy shit and pay no tax. Well this year we aren't getting one so a few companies are saying, come buy our shit this weekend, and we will deduct the tax off the price so you dont have to pay any tax.

Well, the guys is Boston didn't like that and have said that it is illegal for businesses to advertise that....fucking retarded.

Well, good. It's time for the rich to start paying your fair share. Especially since you don't even spend the money on the right things as decided by experts. It's not right that you get to steal from the people just for more plastic guitars. You've gotten away with it for too long.
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Re: Politik.

Postby JaoSming on Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:12 am

I was going to defend myself but I got GH:SH with 2 guitars for my birthday.

So I'm up to 10 now. 2 PS2 GH1, then for the 360, 1 GH2, 2 RB1, 1 RB2, 1 RB "Bass", 1 RB2, and now 2 GH:WT guitars. So couple that with my 2 drumsets, yea, I'm awesome.
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