need help with religion

[benji]

They (and as you are implying, this includes you) clearly fear it, why else would they feel the need to try and bring it down at every opportunity? If anyone shows an interest in religion, they feel the desire to instantly insult, descredit, say it "makes no sense", etc.

What exactly is so wrong about people following a religion?

[Chaser7]

Because it doesn't make sense to me, I don't understand how one can believe that the reason we all exist is because os 2 people.. I don't see how people can believe that Jesus existed and made rocks become bread.. I'm not afraid of it, I just confused by how one can believe it... Ever wonder why people like Jesus existed only thousands of years ago? Probably because if nowadays someone claimed to be god, they'd be considered crazy...

Benji- I'm not trying to flame you though. Why do my PERSONAL beliefs have to be a direct insult on you... Religion is a complicated thing, and there are many different sides to it. I'm not holding anything against you.

[benji]

Because it doesn't make sense to me, I don't understand how one can believe that the reason we all exist is because os 2 people.. I don't see how people can believe that Jesus existed and made rocks become bread..

Why do you care if people believe it? You don't understand it, so why attack those who feel they do?

I just confused by how one can believe it... Ever wonder why people like Jesus existed only thousands of years ago? Probably because if nowadays someone claimed to be god, they'd be considered crazy...

Again, what is the need to attack, insult and attempt to descredit it? You don't understand nuclear physics probably, do you attack it and people who believe/understand it?

Benji- I'm not trying to flame you though. Why do my PERSONAL beliefs have to be a direct insult on you...

When did I ever say you were...or that they were...

[diddy]

benji, man, u don't get it!

atheistlookingforanswers, ok, but that was my point. and i say it again - faith mustn't make u do everythin', that it preachs. as first u should do what u think is right: don't kill, lie and so on. i can tell u that i go to the church very rare (it's bad, i know) but i speak to God often, give him credits for some live events... and it helps, and when i come to the church and light up the candles for health of my girl, relatives, for pease at the sky for my father and grandpa i feel proud and good in ma soul! everything u do should come from your ideology, not only from what any religion wants!

[Gundy]

Diddy, man, u don GeT iT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?>>!

[diddy]

Gundy, wtf

[Dro]

Because it doesn't make sense to me, I don't understand how one can believe that the reason we all exist is because os 2 people.. I don't see how people can believe that Jesus existed and made rocks become bread.. I'm not afraid of it, I just confused by how one can believe it... Ever wonder why people like Jesus existed only thousands of years ago? Probably because if nowadays someone claimed to be god, they'd be considered crazy...

Sounds like you're interpreting these stories very literally. To quote myself from earlier in this topic:

As far as the "fables" in the Bible...those stories are in every religion. And don't take them so seriously. Did Jesus really walk on water? Did Moses really part the sea? Did Muhammad really hallucinate in a cave and see an angel?...who knows. But your faith in a religion shouldn't be based upon whether any of these did or did not happen. Rather, delve deeper and discover the themes and the lessons these stories present. Whether it's Christianity, Islam, Judaism or whatever, EVERY story in their Holy Book has life lessons to learn from.

[Joe']

Because it doesn't make sense to me

So just because it doesn't make sense to you, every other person in the world shouldn't believe in God?

People believe in God because we just need to believe in something or someone that's bigger than us. We all wanna believe some things just happen, without a particular reason or scientific explanation, and we all wanna believe there is a better place where we all have the possibility to go once we're gone.

I personally believe in God (and Jesus, his only son) and consider myself a Catholic even though I'm not praticant and I don't exactly believe in the Holy Church and what it dictates to people, as I don't believe in everything the Bible says: God isn't what the Church or the Bible says, God is faith, something more personal. It's something that's inside of you.

And this is why I personally hate other religions like Islam, that don't look to you in the same way if you fail to do what they dictate and that dictate more than just religion. It's just plain stupid, religion is a really personal thing, it shouldn't be dictated by any book or person. By this I don't mean the Koran or the Bible shouldn't exist, I mean they should be taken for what they are: books filled with learnings and knowledge, which one can acquire by reading them; they shouldn't influence in any way what one decides to do with its life (be it just religious and non-religious for the Koran).

[el badman]

We all wanna believe some things just happen, without a particular reason or scientific explanation, and we all wanna believe there is a better place where we all have the possibility to go once we're gone.

No we don't, some people really don't NEED to believe in this. Benji was mentioning the fact that irreligious people"fear" faith and religions in general, which is why they feel the need to flame others who do believe. But don't these people (religious) live in fear as well? The fact that you're not comfortable enough with your own existence and with your responsabilities as a human being (provided you acknowledge them), and that you need to believe in guidelines and stories from a book and in a higher authority, wouldn't this be considered as fear as well? Who's afraid the most then?

It's just plain stupid, religion is a really personal thing, it shouldn't be dictated by any book or person.

Unfortunately, this seems to be pretty much a standard for most religions, they do rely heavily on a book or some kind of prophet. And they have to, there wouldn't be any structure to them otherwise.

[Joe']

We all wanna believe some things just happen, without a particular reason or scientific explanation, and we all wanna believe there is a better place where we all have the possibility to go once we're gone.

No we don't, some people really don't NEED to believe in this. Benji was mentioning the fact that irreligious people"fear" faith and religions in general, which is why they feel the need to flame others who do believe. But don't these people (religious) live in fear as well? The fact that you're not comfortable enough with your own existence and with your responsabilities as a human being (provided you acknowledge them), and that you need to believe in guidelines and stories from a book and in a higher authority, wouldn't this be considered as fear as well? Who's afraid the most then?

Fair enough: Sometimes we wanna believe some things happen without a particular reason or scientific explanation and sometimes we wanna believe there is a better place we get to go once we're gone. I know I do, I know a lot of people that do.

[Elbeen]

Because it doesn't make sense to me, I don't understand how one can believe that the reason we all exist is because os 2 people.. I don't see how people can believe that Jesus existed and made rocks become bread.. I'm not afraid of it, I just confused by how one can believe it... Ever wonder why people like Jesus existed only thousands of years ago? Probably because if nowadays someone claimed to be god, they'd be considered crazy...

Benji- I'm not trying to flame you though. Why do my PERSONAL beliefs have to be a direct insult on you... Religion is a complicated thing, and there are many different sides to it. I'm not holding anything against you.

read my post

In regards to the impossible things in the Bible:

Some things aren't really possible.

You really need to read between the lines to understand what those mean.

Heck, no one yet really knows what it mean.

For example:

The story of Adam and Eve, some people interpret it that the two of them populate the world.

That ain't possible and besides, it was said that Adam and Eve's children were boys, so what you gonna do have intercourse with your mom?!

No.

The truth behind it is, the name Adam really meant 'all men' and Eve meant 'all women'.

^ Well that's what my Religion teacher said.

[benji]

No we don't, some people really don't NEED to believe in this. Benji was mentioning the fact that irreligious people"fear" faith and religions in general, which is why they feel the need to flame others who do believe. But don't these people (religious) live in fear as well? The fact that you're not comfortable enough with your own existence and with your responsabilities as a human being (provided you acknowledge them), and that you need to believe in guidelines and stories from a book and in a higher authority, wouldn't this be considered as fear as well? Who's afraid the most then?

You're assuming that they had no guidelines before the religion, instead of the religion confirming and expanding their own guidelines. If a person would not think it's bad to kill someone, aside from their religion telling them so, are they not dishonest, and thus not entitled to the benefits promised by the religion.

I didn't say that all irreligious people fear faith and religion, I was noting that the vocal subset of them, and especially on the internet, appear as if they cannot help themselves but smear religion and religious people at every opportunity. There must be some reason they wish to stop it so much, and in such a negative manner, only fear, not because they think they are helping people. Moving away from merely el_badman's post and onto larger themes of the thread...

I know not all irreligious people are this way, I am irreligious and do not fear religion. I think there is a massive failure by many irreligious people to act as if religion is some originally based in some sort of logical or rational argument. Humanity has little problem fearing what it does not understand, the irreligious do not understand how someone can follow and believe something like religion. So they assume those people are crazy, uncomfortable, and need something to protect themselves with.

It all reads like an attempt to prove one superior because one "doesn't believe in such superstition". How many logical fallacies exactly are required in such anti-religion efforts? Seems like a lot.

Most religious thought does contain rational and logical thought, however, like all beliefs, it requires a faith or belief in the truth of the original statements. I have a belief in natural rights, I may not believe the part about them being granted by a Creator, but I have this belief nonetheless. I cannot prove this, and it cannot be disproven by humans that I know of.

Belief in absolutely nothing leads to a relativism in which nothing can be true and no argument is valid. Arguing that nothing is true is invalid in and of itself.

I guess it comes down to me questioning the necessity to attack, not merely question, but attack/insult/destroy others beliefs, if that is what they want to believe. The arguments of men in the name of religion are not faith/belief, and thus attacking them proves nothing eitherway about the original belief. What reason do we, posting on the internet, have for attacking like is done. We are not merely questioning and looking for answers, instead bile and venom must be spit. Explain why you don't want anyone to believe in their personal religion, and that instead they should believe in yours. Can you ultimately explain it beyond "it doesn't make sense to me, they must be wrong"?

[cyanide]

That really has nothing to do with what I said.

BUT THE STATE IS IGNORANT!

It did have to with what you said, but you somehow mis-interpreted "state" to mean government or nation, when I was talking about "state of" as in, a state of mind. Of course, this might be too much for you to handle mentally, but that's ok.

[atheist who found answer.]

i think the reason why i do not want to just be all religions, and take only the good from each is because of the fact that i really like the spirituality part of religion, and i dnont think you can acheive that by following all religions, and only doing good works

[shadowgrin]

a whole bible's story bout holy graal! that's bol shit. graal meant like a woman, not a cup! did u see painting " the Lord's Supper"? so u might found NO spesial cup(how tells the legend - graal is a cup, and all apostals drinked with it), and more - if u look at the first apostol, that sitting near the Jusis - it is a Girl(his wife maria), and He and She they've got converted clothes - why?? cuz this is a sign!....

It really is bullshite because there's no such thing like that in the bible. Retard.

I wouldn't mind taking measurements of women's cup sizes though.

which god tells to their Men not to work, and only pray all the days and greating {god}

Idiot, you and your own fucked up translation.
Islam tells that the men should stop working while they pray, which is on a specific hour (I think it's 6 or 5 pm, facing the east). They do that everyday. It's similarly no different from the Jews sabbath day or the Catholic Sundays.

and women should work! and also - kill other people!

Again, learn more about something before talking smack about it.
Part of the Koran was written by Mohammed during wartime (tribal wars or something). The women were asked to work because all abled men are busy with war. How is their society going to function if the women sit all day and wait for their war-tired men to do something? That's also the reason why Muslims are allowed many wives because in the past the men are decreasing in numbers because of the war, so they were allowed to marry the women who are widowed or not able to sufficiently support themselves. With the "multiple wives" and "women allowed to work" writing/policy in the Koran, it made sure that the women were taken care off.

Who, Lennon or Jesus?

Jesus resurrected from the dead, so technically he's not dead. Of course I'm unable to provide such proof of resurrection.

[diddy]

shadowgrin,read better u idiot! i've been at turkey, kazachstan... tell me is it normal that God tells the people to pray every "10 minutes"? it looks like a joke to me! God is in everybody's soul! people, who have trust in him should pray when they can, but not all the day!

[benji]

it looks like a joke to me!

I love hidden self-references.

[J@3]

shadowgrin,read better u idiot! i've been at turkey, kazachstan... tell me is it normal that God tells the people to pray every "10 minutes"? it looks like a joke to me! God is in everybody's soul! people, who have trust in him should pray when they can, but not all the day!

Why are you calling him an idiot? I'm your Lord and saviour. Just accept it. In the name of Jaesus, amen.

[diddy]

Jae, man, it was an answer! i don't accept when someone call me like that! especially when i'm talking bout my vision of the problem! and i think u will do the same!

[Joe']

Diddy, man, I think someone's gonna get banned if they don't get the hell out of this thread immediately.

[J@3]

Wtf is with that avatar? I'd ban you for it but I think my alternative is more fun.

[Matthew]

That really has nothing to do with what I said.

BUT THE STATE IS IGNORANT!

It did have to with what you said, but you somehow mis-interpreted "state" to mean government or nation, when I was talking about "state of" as in, a state of mind. Of course, this might be too much for you to handle mentally, but that's ok.

You're quick to question my mental capacity, but you're the one who can't grasp sarcasm. The italic portion of my post was not meant to make sense at all, it was as abstract as the post I was referring to made by you.

For someone who feels he is so deep and meaningful you have an awfully shallow line of thinking.

[cyanide]

If that post was meant to be sarcasm, then why would you say something so pointless?

[Matthew]

[atheist who found answer.]

on the contrary, the concept of men having multiple wives is actually discouraged in islamic texts; it is only allowed for men to have more than one wife if they can treat the women evenly, and are not allowed to marry out of lust, but only if a women is in a vulnerable position in society, such as being an orphan or a widow; the final say goes to the original wife

the only exception to this rule was muhammad, since it was necessary for him to build social ties with neighbouring communites by marrying someone from their city; in substituion he was given other obliugations by god that a normal muslim doesnt have to follow

also, as for praying, it is not all the time, onl 5 times a day for like 10 minutes each, i like it actually, because it reminds you where your priorities lie throughout the day, (god)