NBA 2k23 PC to be Last-Gen for 3rd year in a row...

[jmmontoro]

They added screenshots to Steam, they should be from PC.

[sevin0seven]

I noticed from the first pic, Jordan is dribbling a "Spalding" ball....hmmmm?

[RayRay_953]

I noticed from the first pic, Jordan is dribbling a "Spalding" ball....hmmmm?

Probably an arena setting like how the past few 2K's have done. For example, the All-Star teams have a unique basketball that's only used when one of them is the home team (as indicated by the type of ball in the arena settings through LooyH's tools). I wonder if 2K has it to where all the classic teams use the Spalding ball, while the current teams use the Wilson ball.

[Andrew]

Well, it is unfortunately well known that game development is one of the worst part of software development industry. I hope that's changing as there seems to be a push both social from the public and workers in some places unionizing.

Not to mention that it's often the devs, who love their games and can probably be disgruntled themselves with the decisions made by shot callers who are much higher in the food chain, can be often target of the flak from gamers instead of the anonymous shot callers. We have seen high profile game devs decide to GTFO from social media after receiving hate and even death threats. And I don't blame them, because dealing with that is simply not something I'd want to do either.
And honestly, even NLSC's very own Leftos did pull back from both forums and social media at least for some time, even though he used to try and help people on PC as much as he could, gather reports, etc when he got his job at VC. Maybe it's a company policy to prevent unintentional leaks, maybe he just doesn't have the time anymore, maybe it's the above, or maybe all of it in part.

No doubt. They definitely have to be careful as far as what they say, and they're certainly a target for toxicity.

Referring back to the situation with NBA Live 2001 PC, one of our founders, Tim, had just joined the team that year. As such, they let him continue to interact with us and keep us posted on developments. Unfortunately this made him the face of the delayed and eventually scrapped patch for the game, and despite the efforts of people like myself, some of the prominent community members were very unkind to him. This was a guy who'd given so much to the community and was in a difficult spot, as it wasn't his fault. The frustration was understandable, but a few Forum vets acted rather poorly. Not one of our better moments as a community.

I noticed from the first pic, Jordan is dribbling a "Spalding" ball....hmmmm?

Probably an arena setting like how the past few 2K's have done. For example, the All-Star teams have a unique basketball that's only used when one of them is the home team (as indicated by the type of ball in the arena settings through LooyH's tools). I wonder if 2K has it to where all the classic teams use the Spalding ball, while the current teams use the Wilson ball.

That's a great detail if it's the case. Another asset to facilitate modding projects, too.

[ThePointForward]

Booker has a Wilson in his hands, so it's probably being an intentional detail for immersion. Not that surprising to be honest given that they already support custom balls in MyTeam.

[sticky-fingers]

NBA has no longer a contract with Spalding, i'm surprised by this detail.

[sevin0seven]

NBA has no longer a contract with Spalding, i'm surprised by this detail.

that's what i thought as well... maybe that screen shot was from 2K20, haha (recycle).

[Andrew]

Seems it's legit, given the era-specific presentation in the Jordan Challenge. Again, some handy assets for retro roster mods.

[Pep]

I noticed from the first pic, Jordan is dribbling a "Spalding" ball....hmmmm?

He's dribbling a current Wilson ball but with Spalding logo instead, they can't even make a proper ball from the era.

[bongo88]

gamescom opening day puts both nba2k and madden to shame.

https://old.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comme ... uncements/

A whole new generation of games coming to PC, and PC getting shafted by madden and 2k. Oh well, happy i'll have something to play over the next few years.

[Patr1ck]

What's so special about next gen at this point? As long as all the gameplay and game modes are the same, PC is the choice because of the modding community. It will probably end up on Xcloud with next-gen if you don't have a ps5 or xbox series.

[RayRay_953]

What's so special about next gen at this point? As long as all the gameplay and game modes are the same, PC is the choice because of the modding community. It will probably end up on Xcloud with next-gen if you don't have a ps5 or xbox series.

PC won't be getting some of the new modes like MyNBA Eras and The W career mode. In addition, some core gameplay elements will not be transferred to the current gen (which will make the game feel like 21/22). PC is unfortunately missing out on multiple features and is being sold for only $10 less than the next-gen versions. We still have players using cyberfaces from the PS3/360 era on PC, and we're still missing players featured in the next-gen versions. If people want to get into the modding community and want to play a more recent title, it's probably financially better to just grab any game between 19 and 22 since mods are already available there (not to mention how 20-22 on PC are already similar enough) and they will be cheaper. Yes, they miss out on the revamped Jordan Challenge, but there's a good chance MJ will still feel better on the sticks in 2K11.

[Amioran]

I have a feeling that VC may be actually understaffed and unfortunately making a game run "on PC" is a bit more work than people seem to acknowledge, because you need to make it works for giant amount of combinations of hardware and software.

Just looking at the Steam HW survey for July 2022:

Operating System: 73 % people are on Windows 10, 21 % on Windows 11 and 2 % on Windows 7.
That means you need to take into account Windows 10 and Windows 11. When it comes to Windows 7.

GPUs: The Steam survey is dominated by various nVidia GPUs (76.19 %), mostly mid-range ones. AMD's first card is at 17th spot.
CPUs: 68.45 % for Intel, 31.55 % for AMD.

Now the fun problem is that consoles use AMD chips. Now you have to make it work for completely different machines.

All of this takes time and we all know that Take Two's focus in development for it's studios is clearly in monetization. If VC is understaffed like I think, I'm sadly not surprised they're not able to make the game run on PC.
Kinda brings me back to somethign I've been saying for a while: NBA 2K should release like twice per console gen.

All the things you mention have almost no impact whatsoever in how difficult or time consuming a game is to port on PC, and this without even entering on the question of the validity of Steam HW survey that's well known to be totally misleading as many users browse steam through laptops but then use a dedicated desktop to play.

The OS has very minimal bearing on modern gaming development, since all games nowadays are made for Windows 10 onwards and practically all the resources' scheduling (including CPU) are maintained by the OS itself.

Even GPUs nowadays have very minimal differences in their respective SDKs and hence, apart from special optimizations or dedicated libraries (as DLSS for Nvidia), the general code is the same for every manufacturer and the cards themselves take care of the rest. Furthermore every single game company is in strict contact with card manufactures and usually specific optimizations are given by them by the latter (as card manufacturers are personally invested in how well a game performs with their products).

Porting a game on PC from new gen consoles is much easier than it was before (when consoles had dedicated SDKs that you would have to fully recreate for PC) as you practically have only to develop scalability for graphical options and an interface taking in consideration mouse and keyboard support. That's it. All the rest is exactly the same as new gen consoles are in all all PC themselves with a dedicated OS (that works, however, very similarly on how Windows works). Almost all modern engines can just for this automatically generate different builds for consoles and PCs.

It's not a matter of lack of manpower, as even a very small group of people can easily port a new gen console game to PC without much trouble (the most of the work is not on the development side but on the QA).

[Murat]

In my country, almost nobody can affort a RTX. or a graphic card that can run PS5 games. Here PS5 and its games are very expensive so a lot of people either play PS4, or they go with PC. I believe this is the case for a lot of countries too especially in Eastern Europe/Asia, so if you make NBA 2K23 Next-Gen, you lose a lot of customers. This is rather a business decision I respect. I think that's one of the reasons that it is still current gen for PC. Affordability, right?

It also makes me smile when we have Andrew here, he remembers the old times vividly. The Hubie Brown of the NLSC. I even saw that he used the phrase "There you go" at this thread.

[Hadley88]

In my country, almost nobody can affort a RTX. or a graphic card that can run PS5 games. Here PS5 and its games are very expensive so a lot of people either play PS4, or they go with PC. I believe this is the case for a lot of countries too especially in Eastern Europe/Asia, so if you make NBA 2K23 Next-Gen, you lose a lot of customers. This is rather a business decision I respect. I think that's one of the reasons that it is still current gen for PC. Affordability, right?

Are you really that stupid?

By that logic 99% of PC Games could not release. If there were only some way to scale Games down so they can be played at lower hardware... well I guess teh Tech isn't there yet.

[yummybear]

Are you really that stupid?

By that logic 99% of PC Games could not release. If there were only some way to scale Games down so they can be played at lower hardware... well I guess teh Tech isn't there yet.

Hey smart guy, seems u think for your self only. How come u got your 99% thing ???

It's too simple to understand that not every kid can buy expensive hardware the way you did in your country. we are talking about global bro!!!

[bongo88]

lol, before this thread gets derailed with petty insults, let me talk about something different.

FIFA 23 PC is getting next gen source link ... which is the last game that i'd thought would get next gen, because plenty of the playerbase is outside the USA
But yet, EA has provided PC with next gen. And unfortunately, that lifts the requirements from quite old hardware fifa 22 requirments to moderatly expensive hardware FIFA 23 reveals its PC requirements, and they are significantly higher than those of FIFA 22--- especially if you are living in expensive global markets.

Now the requirements are actually not to bad ... 1050ti ... which means they are scaling video effect downwards... but in a world where hardware is getting expensive, even I am not looking forward to upgrading my PC. I have a 6500 and 1060 ... whole system cost me $600 in the USA... now a graphics card is that expensive. Anyways, with an estimated only 27% US playerbase https://fictionhorizon.com/how-many-people-play-fifa-22-user-growth-stats/ ... not the greatest source, but steamcharts doesn't show numbers by region and i didn't search for official EA numbers... not time for this post ... i figured FIFA would never get next gen on PC as well as next gen hardware, so that EA could keep the global playerbase paying for the game.

just rambling now, i guess pointing out that rather than throw petty insults, realize that eventually next gen has to come to PC ... and system requirments are going up.

In a world where exspensive cars, boats, vacations, clothes all cater to the rich... PC gaming used to be accessible for under 500 dollars here in the USA. But with the new hardware prices, I personally am not looking forward to upgrading my PC. and I wonder if PC gaming is worth the cost.

anyways, too bad 2k and madden dont have next gen on PC.... the 2k stuffs look interesting that we aren't getting .... and the new madden passing stuffs looks pretty cool. But hopefully PC gets next gen sometime.... but the cost of PC gaming is getting very expensive, that is for sure.

[Murat]

In my country, almost nobody can affort a RTX. or a graphic card that can run PS5 games. Here PS5 and its games are very expensive so a lot of people either play PS4, or they go with PC. I believe this is the case for a lot of countries too especially in Eastern Europe/Asia, so if you make NBA 2K23 Next-Gen, you lose a lot of customers. This is rather a business decision I respect. I think that's one of the reasons that it is still current gen for PC. Affordability, right?

Are you really that stupid?

By that logic 99% of PC Games could not release. If there were only some way to scale Games down so they can be played at lower hardware... well I guess teh Tech isn't there yet.

I had a subpar GPU when 2k9 was out. The game simply DID NOT RUN. I saw black screen. I had to buy a new GPU.

There is something named minimum requirements, sometimes they can be higher than your specs. When a Next Gen comes out your specs might not be enough for minimum requirements too. In US/EU it is easier to buy PS5/XBX. But other countries people play from PC. Thanks to yummybear and bongo88 for clarifying the issue more.

[Patr1ck]

We've been through the nextgen transitions before, and it sucks as a PC gamer. Older graphics aside, we're apparently not getting some game features of the nextgen game, as well. That's a no-buy from me.

I can't link the league pass subscription to my tv provider, so I would need to buy a device that can stream it to my tv since other people like watching basketball in my household. That negates the "discount" that the league pass subscription gives you. It's a hell of a deal for the championship edition since you get both last gen and next gen games plus league pass. However, I am not buying a nextgen console to play this game.

Hearing some impressions from a youtuber who played the game, not much has changed. A few shot window and shot contest windows were adjusted, the gameplay is slower, which usually means less responsive control-wise, nothing about player movement, and some extra dunk controls. Looks like they are not ready to make any major innovations to the gameplay, imo.

[jmmontoro]

All markets behave different, there's no straight conclusion.

For me I can buy a 3080 or a PS5 for about the same price, and a 2080 or a PS4. Consoles are an absurdly expensive luxury and always been here, the GPUs on the other hand is a new phenomena related to crypto mining, but that wasn't always the case since you could get a better PC than a console for about half the price.

It's not always easy to see things from a different perspective than your own, 2K certainly has issues with that, why wouldn't we?

[bongo88]

Hearing some impressions from a youtuber who played the game, not much has changed. A few shot window and shot contest windows were adjusted, the gameplay is slower, which usually means less responsive control-wise, nothing about player movement, and some extra dunk controls. Looks like they are not ready to make any major innovations to the gameplay, imo.

yeah, i agree next gen doesn't seem like major inovations, but i've never palyed next gen 2k, so i don't know, lol.
I wonder if one of these games 2k18-2k23 becomes a modding gem... kinda like 2k14....
for myself, i was also hoping to get wnba multiple season franchise.... not sure if 2k22 on PC or 2k23 on PC has multiple wnba seasons... but 2k20 and 2k21 only have 1 season wnba. i personally like the wnba gameplay better.

[BlazerGun1]

In my country, almost nobody can affort a RTX. or a graphic card that can run PS5 games. Here PS5 and its games are very expensive so a lot of people either play PS4, or they go with PC. I believe this is the case for a lot of countries too especially in Eastern Europe/Asia, so if you make NBA 2K23 Next-Gen, you lose a lot of customers. This is rather a business decision I respect. I think that's one of the reasons that it is still current gen for PC. Affordability, right?

Are you really that stupid?

By that logic 99% of PC Games could not release. If there were only some way to scale Games down so they can be played at lower hardware... well I guess teh Tech isn't there yet.

I had a subpar GPU when 2k9 was out. The game simply DID NOT RUN. I saw black screen. I had to buy a new GPU.

There is something named minimum requirements, sometimes they can be higher than your specs. When a Next Gen comes out your specs might not be enough for minimum requirements too. In US/EU it is easier to buy PS5/XBX. But other countries people play from PC. Thanks to yummybear and bongo88 for clarifying the issue more.

if ur current card was able to run NBA2K22 on High setting 60 FPS there is no reason you wouldn't been able to run Next Gen NBA2K unless it was badly optimized. also there is always a way to adjust and change settings - not to mention that with things like FSR your old cards can literally run Next Gen games ( just the other day I saw someone being able to run Marvel's Spiderman with a fricking GTX 750 TI ) . requirments are suggestions, but they don't show the whole picture.

[bongo88]

I had a subpar GPU when 2k9 was out. The game simply DID NOT RUN. I saw black screen. I had to buy a new GPU.

There is something named minimum requirements, sometimes they can be higher than your specs. When a Next Gen comes out your specs might not be enough for minimum requirements too. In US/EU it is easier to buy PS5/XBX. But other countries people play from PC. Thanks to yummybear and bongo88 for clarifying the issue more.

if ur current card was able to run NBA2K22 on High setting 60 FPS there is no reason you wouldn't been able to run Next Gen NBA2K unless it was badly optimized. also there is always a way to adjust and change settings - not to mention that with things like FSR your old cards can literally run Next Gen games ( just the other day I saw someone being able to run Marvel's Spiderman with a fricking GTX 750 TI ) . requirments are suggestions, but they don't show the whole picture.

It always amuses me when young people are on the internet. I always forget that young people are now older. I remember 2009/2010... bad year for hardware. I also remember a program that i used to run pixel shader 1.1 through the cpu... but i couldn't remember the name.
So, being bored, i'd figure how long to find the tool.... lol, took like 20 minutes

https://crystalunicorn.wordpress.com/li ... d-analyze/
https://www.3dfxzone.it/dir/tools/3d_analyze/download/

used to run lego star wars with that tool on my ancient laptop.

Point is... very glad that a 750 TI can run spiderman.... and, yes, our GPU could possibly run next gen 2k ... but there is a chance that it could not .... there is a long history from 90's to 2011 where a gpu upgrade was required because the hardware was not supported.

if ur current card was able to run NBA2K22 on High setting 60 FPS there is no reason you wouldn't been able to run Next Gen NBA2K unless it was badly optimized. also there is always a way to adjust and change settings

I love your optimisim... you have a positive way of thinking when it comes to computing and relationships with companies. Murat and I have a bunch of old cynycissim... we don't trust these companies and have been, in our lives, "Hardware Locked" out of the next great game.

I'm still mad at myself for updated my shadow play. version 1.0 or version 2.0 or somewhere around there i could make a hour long 1080p video at under 100mb.... the latest "updated video coded" is now a much, much larger size... with no discernable quality improvement.... but that runs into conspiracy theories...

Anwyays, love your optimism

i'm bored with this thread.... probably won't be back to it ....

[BlazerGun1]

I had a subpar GPU when 2k9 was out. The game simply DID NOT RUN. I saw black screen. I had to buy a new GPU.

There is something named minimum requirements, sometimes they can be higher than your specs. When a Next Gen comes out your specs might not be enough for minimum requirements too. In US/EU it is easier to buy PS5/XBX. But other countries people play from PC. Thanks to yummybear and bongo88 for clarifying the issue more.

if ur current card was able to run NBA2K22 on High setting 60 FPS there is no reason you wouldn't been able to run Next Gen NBA2K unless it was badly optimized. also there is always a way to adjust and change settings - not to mention that with things like FSR your old cards can literally run Next Gen games ( just the other day I saw someone being able to run Marvel's Spiderman with a fricking GTX 750 TI ) . requirments are suggestions, but they don't show the whole picture.

It always amuses me when young people are on the internet. I always forget that young people are now older. I remember 2009/2010... bad year for hardware. I also remember a program that i used to run pixel shader 1.1 through the cpu... but i couldn't remember the name.
So, being bored, i'd figure how long to find the tool.... lol, took like 20 minutes

https://crystalunicorn.wordpress.com/li ... d-analyze/
https://www.3dfxzone.it/dir/tools/3d_analyze/download/

used to run lego star wars with that tool on my ancient laptop.

Point is... very glad that a 750 TI can run spiderman.... and, yes, our GPU could possibly run next gen 2k ... but there is a chance that it could not .... there is a long history from 90's to 2011 where a gpu upgrade was required because the hardware was not supported.

if ur current card was able to run NBA2K22 on High setting 60 FPS there is no reason you wouldn't been able to run Next Gen NBA2K unless it was badly optimized. also there is always a way to adjust and change settings

I love your optimisim... you have a positive way of thinking when it comes to computing and relationships with companies. Murat and I have a bunch of old cynycissim... we don't trust these companies and have been, in our lives, "Hardware Locked" out of the next great game.

I'm still mad at myself for updated my shadow play. version 1.0 or version 2.0 or somewhere around there i could make a hour long 1080p video at under 100mb.... the latest "updated video coded" is now a much, much larger size... with no discernable quality improvement.... but that runs into conspiracy theories...

Anwyays, love your optimism

i'm bored with this thread.... probably won't be back to it ....

It's not about optimism? I could finish RDR2 with GTX 960 and 8 GB ram - and the same goes for other next gen games - u literally even have the example of Fifa 23 which requires GTX 1050 Ti - which is not expansive or strong at all. I think u overestimate the graphical changes (especially regarding NBA2K ) . The only reason it won't be able to run on a computer that is stronger than a PS4 is only because of bad optimization .

[Murat]

Also another point is I think you need to have another team of developers to integrate the game to PC. Take Two Interactive needs to make a massive hiring tour to gather them probably. Which also has its own costs.