Criteria for Sixth Man of the Year

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:07 pm

Sixth Man of the Year is probably one of the more controversial player awards in the league since everyone has their own idea of what constitutes a sixth man and what doesn't, minutes per game averages and potential candidates being starter-quality players who just happen to come off the bench being major points of contention. So, what criteria do you think would fairly award Sixth Man honours?

For me, I'd start out with the widely accepted definition of the term Sixth Man and their role in basketball:

Wikipedia wrote:The sixth man in basketball is a player who is not a starter but comes off the bench much more often than other reserves, often being the first player to be substituted in. The sixth man often plays minutes equal to or exceeding some of the starters and posts similar statistics.

NBA.com's Hoopedia wrote:The NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award is the award given by the National Basketball Association to the league's most valuable player for his team coming off the bench as a substitute (sixth man). To be eligible for the award, a player must come in off of the bench in more games than he starts.

I think it would be fair to define a sixth man as a reserve player who sees significant minutes and is arguably the best player coming off the bench (certainly the bench player with the best statistics). To further define the characteristics and role of a sixth man, I would say that sixth men are players who are better suited to coming off the bench either personally or strategically, are prime candidates to take the place of a regular starter when needed (and could perhaps be a regular starter on another team in the league) and provide their teams a capable and productive player in a reserve role, generally being the first substitute to enter for their team.

In that regard, I don't think you can disqualify players because they are arguably better choices to start regularly, start some games during the season or play a lot of minutes, comparable to (or more than) one of the regular starters as they're still being utilised in the traditional sixth man role. You do have to invoke some limit on the amount of games started and less than half seems fair enough. Perhaps bringing that number down to 30% (ie no more than 25 games assuming a player appears in all 82 regular season games) would fairly eliminate those who are on the border of being sixth men and frequent starters.

From there, the statistical production of each qualified candidate could be analysed and compared to decide the league's best reserve player. If the Sixth Man award is to be considered the MVP of reserve players as defined in NBA.com's Hoopedia, team records and production when the Sixth Man candidate is on the floor would also presumably come into play.

So I guess my criteria would basically come down to potential candidates satisfying the requirements for percentage of games started and being the most prominent reserve on their team, thus fulfilling the traditional role of sixth man by being the most productive/talented player coming off the bench for considerable minutes because it is a role they are better suited to or because it offers a strategical advantage.

The criteria for selecting a winner from the qualified candidates would then simply be a comparison of each player's performance with conclusions drawn on each player's importance to his team, with the award going to the player with the most impressive results.

by **L10** on Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:50 pm

"He's explosive. He can score in multiple says,'' said Minnesota coach Randy Wittman about Ginobili after San Antonio's Friday win. "It's not like he's just a shooter. He gets to the line, he gets in the lane, he can make 3s. So he's probably as good as there is. For a guy off the bench who played 25 minutes and scored 26 points, that's a pretty good sixth man.''
In my opinion its fairly enough to play less than half, Manu is around 35%. I dont know why you cant understand who should win this award.
Lets see other candidates... Jason Terry/Leandrinho Barbosa, both are playing around 30 mpg (just as manu), Terry started more than him. Barbosa is scoring less than 4ppg than Manu, who this season is tied in 28 teamhighs leadingpoints with Tim Duncan (who is consider one of the best PF in the nba history) ... Ginobili become starting when Tony/Tim suffer injuries...so... who should win this award? for me it is clear enough. Just because Manu has been playing as a superstar player doesnt mean he doesnt deserve to win it this year.

by **[Q]** on Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:33 pm

I think people who qualify for 6th man should not be people who you would start unless the person you usually play there is hurt. Ginobili, Gordon, & Terry are guys like this that I can think of right now. They simply can't be the 4th or 5th best player on the team or better.

Guys that I think deserve consideration are Jose Calderon (because I think he's more effective than T.J. Ford any day despite people thinking TJ's "better"), Jannero Pargo (doesn't show up EVERY night, but most nights, and helps keep the Hornets in the game with their atrocious bench on the floor), and Travis Outlaw who's saved the Blazers quite a bit this year.

by **Sauru** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:28 am

this is a crap award anyway. totally pointless. just my opinion anyway

by **Patr1ck** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:56 am

My criteria for the 6th man award would be someone who plays no more then 30 minutes/no less then 15, starts less then half the amount of games he has played with atleast 60 games played. This player would need to have the best +/- in the league for players who meet that criteria to win the award.

by **benji** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:15 am

Players who met Pdub's criteria last season, along with number of sixth man points they got:

Code: Select all: aldridge,lamarcus armstrong,darrell arroyo,carlos atkins,chucky (4) balkman,renaldo bargnani,andrea barnes,matt barry,brent buckner,greg butler,rasaul calderon,jose (3) cook,brian daniels,antonio delfino,carlos diawara,yakhouba diop,desagana dixon,juan dooling,keyon duhon,chris (3) evans,maurice evans,reggie farmar,jordan finley,michael foye,randy garcia,francisco gelabale,mickael george,devean gibson,daniel ginobili,manu (269) giricek,gordan graham,joey green,gerald green,willie harpring,matt (4) hayes,jarvis head,luther (4) horry,robert howard,juwan jaric,marko jasikevicius,sarunas johnson,anthony jones,dahntay jones,damon jones,fred jones,james kleiza,linas magloire,jamaal marshall,donyell mcdyess,antonio (17) milicic,darko milsap,paul morrison,adam murray,ronald mutombo,dikembe nachbar,bostjan najera,eduardo oberto,fabricio outlaw,travis pargo,jannero pavlovic,aleksander payton,gary peterson,morris petro,johan posey,james robinson,nate rondo,rajon salmons,john smith,craig smith,j.r. (1) smith,joe stackhouse,jerry (210) stoudamire,salim telfair,sebastian thomas,etan thomas,kurt thomas,tim turiaf,ronny varejao,anderson walker,antoine watson,earl webster,martell wilkins,damien williams,marcus williams,shelden williamson,corliss wright,antoine wright,dorell wright,lorenzen

Top 20 players with less than 50% starts last season by PER, with Playing Time %

Code: Select all: ginobili,manu .521 lee,david .433 may,sean .209 calderon,jose .409 maggette,corey .581 barbosa,leandro .656 mcdyess,antonio .435 milsap,paul .372 atkins,chucky .517 aldridge,lamarcus .349 stackhouse,jerry .409 boykins,earl .511 barry,brent .412 bonner,matt .165 ariza,trevor .323 childress,josh .509 herrmann,walter .234 balkman,renaldo .266 villaneuva,charlie .248 smith,craig .384

by **Patr1ck** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:18 am

Manu and Jerry ftw. Source?

by **L10** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:27 am

stackhouse is averaging 10,8 ppg 2,5 apg 2,3 rpg and 0,5spg, while manu is 20,2 ppg, 4,6 apg, 4,8 rpg and 1,5 spg- so wth are u comparing?

by **benji** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:44 am

Source? For what?

More:
Ranked by Min%*PER, starts less than 41 games

Code: Select all: ginobili,manu barbosa,leandro maggette,corey atkins,chucky lee,david boykins,earl childress,josh korver,kyle mcdyess,antonio crawford,jamal

(1-(Starts/GP))*Min%*PER, starts less than 41 games

Code: Select all: barbosa,leandro korver,kyle mcdyess,antonio harpring,matt lee,david calderon,jose head,luther ginobili,manu varejao,anderson milsap,paul

(1-(Starts/82))*Min%*PER, starts less than 41 games

Code: Select all: barbosa,leandro korver,kyle mcdyess,antonio lee,david harpring,matt ginobili,manu childress,josh calderon,jose maggette,corey head,luther

by **Patr1ck** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:48 am

Benji put a number next to each player and Stackhouse and Manu have the most. I was wondering what he is referring to that's why I asked what his source is. At the time of my post I didn't know he was referring to the sixth man award points from the voting of last season. I didn't really pay attention to the fact that those stats are from the last season. I guess you are stating statistics from the current season. Leandro Barbosa won the sixth man award in 06-07 with 578 points, but I am guessing he didn't meet my criteria since Benji didn't put him on the points list.

by **benji** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:56 am

Barbosa played 32.7 mpg last season.

(1-(Starts/82))*(1-(Starts/GP))*Min%*PER

Code: Select all: korver,kyle mcdyess,antonio barbosa,leandro harpring,matt milsap,paul varejao,anderson lee,david head,luther calderon,jose outlaw,travis

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:22 pm

Qballer wrote:I think people who qualify for 6th man should not be people who you would start unless the person you usually play there is hurt. Ginobili, Gordon, & Terry are guys like this that I can think of right now. They simply can't be the 4th or 5th best player on the team or better.

Historically speaking, the sixth man isn't necessarily the sixth best player on the team though. Aside from any strategic advantage their team may have by bringing them off the bench, consider that the position(s) they are most suited to relegate them to the bench despite being one of the top five players on the roster.

Take Toni Kukoc during the Bulls' second threepeat. He was arguably the fourth or fifth best player on the roster but didn't start as there were superior players at forward, nor was he a better option to start at centre or point guard despite being a talented player.

Kevin McHale would be another fine historical example. Although he would eventually be used as a regular starter, early on his career he would come off the bench while Cedric Maxwell started alongside Bird. From a talent standpoint, you would expect McHale to be in the starting five with Bird but the Celtics were able to use him as a sixth man to their advantage.

If the sixth man role refers to the best player coming off a team's bench, do the circumstances for such players coming off the bench when they are potentially starter material (if not on their current team then perhaps elsewhere) or the fact they are one of the best players on the team really matter? If their role sees them coming off the bench, they are bench players whether or not their numbers or talent suggest otherwise.

Sauru wrote:this is a crap award anyway. totally pointless. just my opinion anyway

How so? I mean, you could argue that any individual awards are somewhat pointless in a team sport but basketball is certainly a team sport where the individual can really standout and the top performers in certain categories can be recognised for their achievements. Recognising the top bench player in the league seems like a logical category to me.

by **Sauru** on Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:29 am

to be honest i dont really have a good reason i guess, i just think its pointless to give a reward to bench players

by **Mayerhendrix** on Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:02 am

Manu's winning it on a technicality....but IMO the award should just be scrapped. There's already the "Most Improved Player" award which covers the idea of rewarding someone who's normally mediocre for stepping it up, and I think that's what everyone seems to think of with Sixth Man of the Year.

by **benji** on Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:09 am

Everyone? Except for me...and the rest of the people in this thread...and somehow even the media.

by **[Q]** on Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:03 pm

ok I do see your point Andrew on the whole Kukoc argument, so if the award simply does go to the best guy who starts less than 50% of the games then should we just rename the award to "Best man who should be starting on his team if it wasn't for that other guy Award"? If that's the case, Calderon should defiintely win because imo he is leaps and bounds ahead of TJ Ford.

by **Lamrock** on Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:34 pm

Jose Calderon has started well over 50% of the season.

by **[Q]** on Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:09 pm

hmm so he has. probably due to injury. he started a long streak of starts from the Al Horford incident to March 23rd, two games ago when obviously TJ started created problems coming off the bench. TJ seems to have some inferiority complex or some sense of entitlement because of the player he used to be before the injuries.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:50 pm

NJNetsFan wrote:Manu's winning it on a technicality....but IMO the award should just be scrapped. There's already the "Most Improved Player" award which covers the idea of rewarding someone who's normally mediocre for stepping it up, and I think that's what everyone seems to think of with Sixth Man of the Year.

I certainly don't think that. My view on the award is that it meant to acknowledge the best bench player in the league. The only technicality that makes Manu a candidate is that he's not starting and regardless of whether he should be starting or not, that's not the role he's being used in. He comes off the bench, he's a bench player. Whether he should be coming off the bench or not is another issue entirely.

Qballer wrote:ok I do see your point Andrew on the whole Kukoc argument, so if the award simply does go to the best guy who starts less than 50% of the games then should we just rename the award to "Best man who should be starting on his team if it wasn't for that other guy Award"? If that's the case, Calderon should defiintely win because imo he is leaps and bounds ahead of TJ Ford.

Not necessarily, as the best player coming off the bench may not be on the bench because the player starting ahead of him is better, McHale on the early 80s Celtics being a good example of that. I see what you're saying though and reducing the criteria for the Sixth Man award to 30% of games started or less would eliminate borderline candidates who are close to being regular starters. At the very least, more consideration could be given to players who fit the sixth man ideal more closely.

by **Mayerhendrix** on Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:37 am

In that case then the award becomes more of a circumstantial thing than a major one, and should be viewed on the same tier as, say, the Joe Dumars Trophy for sportsmanship. Actually that could be a slight overstatement but the prestige and honor of the award has to be called into question in that case because there's so many good bench players that could normally start but don't because of the way the coach prefers to set up the lineups.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:30 pm

How so? It's still based on a player's performance on the court so it's still relevant to the game of basketball. Again, whether a player is starter quality or not, if he's coming off the bench then that's his role. There's no guarantee he'll be effective in that role or that it will benefit the team.

You could dismiss the MVP award just as easily since it's at the coach's discretion to start a player, allow him to assume the leadership role and put the ball in his hands.

Criteria for Sixth Man of the Year

Criteria for Sixth Man of the Year

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