The Spurs are 2007 champs!(much more inside)

[maes]

Whether Bron was better off being fouled or whether they should ignore the foul and let LeBron shoot a 3 is not the ref's call , they're refs they're not coaches.

The fact of the matter is that LeBron fired the 3 as soon as he was fouled, watch the replay, LeBron shoots the 3 from the logo almost at half court. He was totally past Bowen, plenty of time on the clock, why shoot a half court 3 when he could have shot a normal 3? Because he was fouled.

And if the refs were doing Bron a favor, why did he completely spas out and go ape**** on the ref after the game? I thought he was going to physically attack the zebra.

[cheater1034]

LeBron doesn't too often get that angry about a no-call, but he was pretty angry at the refs there (in the press conference he said it was incidental contact and he got the shot off he wanted, which I don't really believe)

But I thought the rule for continuation was if a player is fouled (LeBron) and lebron doesn't dribble (move) and he goes into his shooting motion, then it's a shooting foul.

LeBron did pick up his dribble after he was fouled (he did not dribble after the contact) and went instantly into his shooting motion.

I don't think there's any doubt it was a shooting foul, lebron would of had 3 free throws and who's to say whether he would of made them all or wouldn't of. It would of been a huge step in his career to make or miss the clutch free throws of a pivotal nba finals game 3.

It was 3 free throws, lebron was having a pretty good free throw night (he didn't shoot that many, but he only missed one), nobody is to say whether he could of made or missed the shots - but it would of given lebron a CHANCE to send the game into OT. This cost the cavs a chance to send the game to OT, which who knows what would of happened. I'm not saying they lost the game because of this single call, they jacked up too many 3s and played poor offense, their defense kept them up/close for most of the game, and at the end tony parker (bastard) ended up hitting a 3 (i think he was contested, not sure), and he's not even a good 3 shooter.

But the refs didn't just cost the cavs a chance to go to OT and win the game, they also cost the NBA because if lebron made or missed those free throws it would of got TONS of media coverage for years to come (he blew it in the clutch, or lebron got over the hump of not being a clutch player after that single even). I'm actually surprised they took that away, and more games = more $ for the nba, so they called a fair game until the end, which is wrong in every way - but looking at both perspectives (1) It was clearly a shooting foul and bowen wanted to foul him --- we were in the bonus, so bowen wanted him to have 2 FTs. and (2) They took away possibly more games of the finals, and tons of media coverage which is all $$$.

So all in all, I don't know what the hell the refs were thinking not calling that, especially from perspective #2, they usually fix some games for more media interest (Especially in playoffs), but when the NBA has a chance to make some money and the officiating crew blows it, you REALLY have to worry about what's becoming of the NBA.

I mean, lets face it, if lebron didn't get fouled he would of got a higher percentage shot because he wouldnt of went into his shooting motion so soon.

I don't know, I'm just really flustered.

*edit*
PS: About drew gooden, I already said this, who cares if he's going over the back to get rebounds, I used to do that all the time in the post when I played. It's not that he's stupid, it's him playing with some extreme passion. In a game this big obviously you guys haven't played the game of basketball before, or you played on very sucky teams -- You want to do everything in your power to help your team, Drew's mental focus was on the ball, he wanted the ball, his team needed the ball, he didn't care who was in his way, he wanted the ball. That's not stupid fellas, that's part of this game, that's playing with passion in a big game..... plain and simple. I'd pay you money if you can find a coach that would scold his guy for going for the rebound in any big game, even if it was out of his reach --- No coach would, because that's energy and emotion, that's a big part of the game of basketball.

Also (not related to drew or game 3 or nba finals), I can't be more pleased with this team than I am, I'm so glad we have a clean program going on, like I've seen in the past rasheed wallace: Loses game 3 in 2006 eastern semis, says "Cleveland got lucky, cleveland is a dog shit town", or w/e he said. In game 6 of 2007 ECF, cleveland pulls away in the fourth quarter, rasheed gives unnecessary contact and gets called for a technical, and then starts cursing out the refs on his way out of the ECF. But, LeBron who didn't get all the breaks from the refs like dwade did or w/e, and doesn't get that call at the end of the game says to the media "I felt it was incidental contact, and I got the shot off I wanted it just rolled out", that just is amazing.

No offense to detroit fans for the example, I absolutely know detroit fans want to cleanup their program, or atleast cleanup the attitudes of guys like rasheed or webber. I've talked to detroit fans and they like rasheed's emotion, but they hate it when he pulls stuff like he did last year in the semis, and this year in the ECF.

[Matt]

I mean, lets face it, if lebron didn't get fouled he would of got a higher percentage shot because he wouldnt of went into his shooting motion so soon.

yeah he got fouled, but it wasn't in the act of shooting. He was looking for a call but never got it, and instead he chucked up a terrible shot. Unless of course he planned a sideways fadeaway with 5sec left from 30ft? If he got the whistle, and then chucked it up then maybe he'd get 3 shots, but you can't expect the referees to bail you out.

[mdbeltran01741]

I think it's now time to give credit where credit is really due. Congratulations San Antonio Spurs! You are a team which every others should emulate. Let's accept it, in the last ten years since Duncan was drafted the San Antonio Spurs were a model for teamwork, consistency, excellence and professionalism. I think it's really boring if you're just a casual fan but if you're a true fan and student of the game then you'll appreciate what they've done for the league and I hope more NBA teams would be like this.

[benji]

I don't think there's any doubt it was a shooting foul, lebron would of had 3 free throws and who's to say whether he would of made them all or wouldn't of.

I think there's plenty of doubt. Read the last five-six posts on the previous page. There was no shooting foul. Watch the video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bF8-LuAEbFE

At 3:07 in slow-mo. LeBron SETS his feet. He gets a step AWAY from Bowen after the foul. Then SETS his feet and takes a shot. You do not get a shooting foul if you are fouled, take a step, set your feet and then shoot. A shooting foul is a foul in the act of shooting, after or as you are leaving your feet for the shot.

It would have never been three free throws. It would've been the ball out of bounds, or two free throws if they were in the bonus.

You're just conspiring because YOUR team lost.

A no-call was wrong, no-shooting foul call was right. The refs may have screwed up by letting them play, but if LeBron makes that three, and the refs call the foul erasing the three and giving it out of bounds, you'd be even more pissed.

The point? It was not a shooting foul. Case closed.

[mvpshaq32]

That doesn't look like a foul. The announcers were talking about Lebron being in the act of picking up the ball to take the shot, but Bowen's hands were already off Lebron the split second he began to bring the ball up.
Foul or no foul, I doubt Lebron would have made the three free throws anyways.

[ixcuincle]

Doesn't look like he was fouled but the video quality was blurry. What I was more concerned about was how far he hit that three away from...move a bit closer to the three point line or something

[nylia]

In a game this big obviously you guys haven't played the game of basketball before, or you played on very sucky teams -- You want to do everything in your power to help your team, Drew's mental focus was on the ball, he wanted the ball, his team needed the ball, he didn't care who was in his way, he wanted the ball. That's not stupid fellas, that's part of this game, that's playing with passion in a big game..... plain and simple. I'd pay you money if you can find a coach that would scold his guy for going for the rebound in any big game, even if it was out of his reach --- No coach would, because that's energy and emotion, that's a big part of the game of basketball.

Hmm.. Somewhat correct, but you have to be a smart player too. He already had 2 quick fouls early in the 3rd quarter, and then he commits two identical fouls. I know you have to have the passion to go for the loose balls, but you have to be smarter about doing that.

I seriously think ANYONE can just jump up and try to tip/grab the ball. But good rebounders know that its not just about jumping to get the ball.

I mean, if you were in the same situation... would you commit two more silly fouls when you already cost your team two team fouls already? You're just giving the other team a free ticket to the free throw line.

Just look at Dennis Rodman, he's got to be one of the most passionate players ever to go for rebounds and loose balls, but he knows how to do it properly. But I guess it's not fair comparing Gooden to a HOF player like Rodman.

I'd take a smart calm player (Oberto/Garbajosa) over an average IQ passionate player (Gooden/Verajao).


On the side note: I think if Verajao were to play with Michael Jordan, he'd have a very bruised eye socket by now for pulling that move on Duncan.

[cheater1034]

No, I looked at the video, it was a continuation in my mind.

1) Lebron was dribbling to the left
2) Bruce bowen swatted his hand
3) lebron immediately stopped his dribble and went into his shooting motion

As long as lebron doesn't dribble after getting fouled it's a continuation, I always thought that's how the foul worked.

[Its_asdf]

That's not how it works. Benji already stated that free throws come from being fouled in the act of shooting, so when you stop and then shoot it is not considered a shooting foul, but looking at it I think it was a foul, although he wouldn't get any free throws. Even if that foul counted they would have had to throw the ball in bounds with only a few seconds to set up a play.

[benji]

No, I looked at the video, it was a continuation in my mind.

1) Lebron was dribbling to the left
2) Bruce bowen swatted his hand
3) lebron immediately stopped his dribble and went into his shooting motion

As long as lebron doesn't dribble after getting fouled it's a continuation, I always thought that's how the foul worked.

No, a continuation foul only happens if you're moving towards the basket and you have momentum.

Look at the video again, LeBron did not "immediately" stop dribbling and shoot. After Bowen's hand leaves his elbow, he gets in another step away from Bowen before setting his feet and going into his shooting motion. He wasn't stepping into a shot as it wasn't one smooth motion, he moved, set and shot. I originally thought he had stepped into his shot but watching the slo-mo again in that video you can clearly see he doesn't. He sets and faces up the basket before shooting and Bowen is nowhere near him by that point.

LeBron logically thought he was getting a call and tried to turn it into a shooting foul. The ref decided not to call it, so LeBron wound up taking a bad shot.

Never under any circumstances should that have been called a shooting foul. Or you're changing the definition.

If you follow the definition you and lots of fans want of a "shooting foul" then late in the game when the Cavs were fouling the Spurs, the Spurs should've flung the ball towards their end immediately after being fouled and gotten three shots.

The refs are terrible in the league anymore, but calling a shooting foul there would've been worse than the no-call they did make.

[Matt]

[Sauru]

lmao, i cant stop laughing from that first pic.

[maes]

Whether it was shooting or not, the foul should have been called, either way it would have been fair to the Cavs.

Bowen shoved LeBron 2 handed and that WILL throw off a 3 pointer from that distance even before the shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRI9a0R__Cc

The correct call is to call the non-shooting foul on Bowen, and the Cavs run the play again which they had plenty of time for.

If i'm allowed to jack somebody 2 handed during the dribble even before the shot, i know few players who'll be able to hit a sideways leaning 3 pointer.

[Sauru]

i agree that the correct call is a non shooting foul but, in todays nba, the way the refs call the games now, he should have gotten 3 shots for that. personally i think he should have kept his dribble and set himself for the 3 instead of instantly jumping and trying to get to the line. i think the refs did him a favor by not calling nothing then he went and messed it all up by trying to get to the line.

[nylia]

NBA.com about Lebron James

http://www.nba.com/news/wurst.html

"A week ago, LeBron James was the future of this league. A week later, he still is."

Certainly true, he just needs time to develop. I can't wait to watch him with a good jump shot and a better post move.

From Pippen:
http://www.nba.com/finals2007/news/pippen_070614.html

"They are a very young team, but I do think that LeBron has to put up a better fight. I think maybe get two or three charging fouls, not the cheap fouls where he is just pushing off a bit and then Bowen flops a lot. If you are going to waste your fouls, make them count. A lot of his offensive fouls have put him in a very passive situation. He needs to get the ball and just run it down someone’s throat one time. Go back to the football days. Find out who is willing to step in front of you or if the Spurs defense is all a façade."

I love this

[Andrew]

Whether it was shooting or not, the foul should have been called, either way it would have been fair to the Cavs.

Agreed. As you noted earlier it's not up to the referees to rule what is most beneficial to a particular team but they do have to make a ruling when there is contact and there was enough contact for something to be called on that play.

i agree that the correct call is a non shooting foul but, in todays nba, the way the refs call the games now, he should have gotten 3 shots for that.

Exactly. Traditionally it shouldn't be a shooting foul but the way continuations are called these days it could have qualified as a three shot foul. Right or wrong, it could easily be called that way by current standards.

The bottom line of course is that the Cavs had a shot at seizing control of the game when the Spurs went five minutes without a field goal and they blew opportunity after opportunity, so even if the final call (or rather, non-call) is questionable, they had a chance to never be in that position in the first place. It does add insult to injury though.

[Drex]

"They are a very young team, but I do think that LeBron has to put up a better fight. I think maybe get two or three charging fouls, not the cheap fouls where he is just pushing off a bit and then Bowen flops a lot. If you are going to waste your fouls, make them count. A lot of his offensive fouls have put him in a very passive situation. He needs to get the ball and just run it down someone’s throat one time. Go back to the football days. Find out who is willing to step in front of you or if the Spurs defense is all a façade."

That's some old-school advice for LeBron.

[-Young Buck-]

The cavs should play Shannon Brown, who knows what he could do to help the team, take a chance.

[mvpshaq32]

No hope for the Cavs now. Pavlovic has disappeared in this series. They had no answer for Parker when he drove in and they have no answer for the threes he's launching. Pavlovic has disappeared in this series and Z and Gooden are the only ones that I see making shots.

[---]

LeBron is choking.

First dropping the rebound, then the turnover in transition, then grabbing the loose ball and knocking it out of bounds. He needs to get his emotions in check and start doing what he does best.

[Drex]

It's over now. I'm in shock

[maes]

Congratulations to the Spurs.

Some heroic performances by the Ginobili & Parker when Duncan was smothered.
I think Cleveland fans should be happy, LeBron will be unbelievable in the future.

[Matt]

[---]

Even when the Spurs came onto the court they looked bored.

Congratulations ton the Spurs, I can't care about the "irty play tactics and if they impacted this series because nothing is as dirty as Varejao's "defence".

Those finals were exciting!