Wilt Chamberlain, one of the best or overrated?

[maniax1075]

I'm just wondering what people think of Chamberlain? Some say he's the greatest of all time... I remember seeing a list of the top 50 NBA players as voted by some magazine many years ago. And I had never heard of this Chamberlain guy who was said to be #1.

The first time i saw him was at an all star game and they asked him who thought was the best out there or something and he basically said that they all suck and he could whoop any of there ass' right now if he wanted to.

After that, for years I never thought much of him, I thought he was just over cocky and rude and I mean he still holds the NBA record for the mens division with 100 points, but I've never seen the game he actually did that in, and a friend told me that he missed that many shots that the other 30 points all went to someone else because Chamberlain missed those shots and the other guy knocked them in as backup.

But now, i'm kind of wondering weather or not Chamberlain played in a time where because of his height and ego he was able to dominate the game without anyone touching him, or weather he actualy was a decent player or not.

I've tried finding footage of him on youtube, but its mostly just highlight shots that you could make the worst player in the world look good by just showing what actually went in.

So, I wanna ask what someone who knows more about Chamberlain thinks of him really... cause I just don't know if my guess is right that he was just a ball hog with a height advantage or if he really was as good as he says.

I've never heard anyone in the NBA refer to anything he ever did other then score 100 in a game, and I've never heard anyone say he was an influence on them.

but it may just be me never being interested in ever learning about him... So I just wanna ask around here if you think he really was one of the greatest, and should be appreciated, or you think he was just bigger and able to dominate and wouldn't have stood a chance if he played sometime from the 80's to present.

I'm not dissing him or anything, I've just been wondering about it lately and thinking I should give him he benefit of the doubt and not judge him because of one 10 second interview, or if my thoughts about him all these years have been accurate.

So whats your honest opinions on the Stilt?

[3P]

and a friend told me that he missed that many shots that the other 30 points all went to someone else because Chamberlain missed those shots and the other guy knocked them in as backup.

????? I have no clue what you are talking about there.

First of all even Wilt haters admit he was a good player. I mean look at history and see anyone who was so dominant on offense and defense. As to the part about his size, look at the end of his carreer when he went against Karrem. Despite being in his later years he still dominated and Karrem had an inch on him (Is Wilt the only guy to block the sky hook?).

Also he wasn't a ballhog (other than in his 78 and 100 games) and even led the leage in Apg one season. He didn't only score, he has the NBA record for rebouds in a game with 55 and averaged 25ish in his carrer, making him the only player to average a 20-20 in there carrer. True he might of not won many championships, but he had to compete with Russel, Cousy ect. Wilt would have dominated even if he played now.

[mvpshaq32]

He means 30 points of his 100 belonged to someone else's tip-in.

[CMJ3]

To say he is overratted is bizarre i mean he averaged like 54 ppg in one season plus over 20 rebounds so i think he was probably one of the greatest of all time i would put him near Jordan if he had only played in the Modern game as their wasnt many big men back when he dominated.

[maniax1075]

To say he is overratted is bizarre i mean he averaged like 54 ppg in one season plus over 20 rebounds so i think he was probably one of the greatest of all time i would put him near Jordan if he had only played in the Modern game as their wasn't many big men back when he dominated.

I'm starting to think I've been wrong all these years... I was reading about him on wikepedia, and I think i can now say I do respect the guy and should never have let a stupid interview determine an opinion of him.

Now i'm kind of wondering how much better he could've been if teams didn't cheat to purposely foul the shit out of him just to send him to the free throw line cause he wasn't a good free throw shooter.

And I see he wasn't at all a ball hog, he led the league in assists a few times.

Still, ya gotta wonder how would rack up against the likes of Shaq or someone just as tall as him but more muscular.

too bad the game he scored 100 wasn't a televised game, bet the NBA wish they where recording that night! And yeah, what I meant before was the score was 130 to whatever, Chamberlain scored 100, and someone else scored 30... I was told the other guy made 30 points cause Chamberlain kept missing... I dunno if there is any truth to that or not now that I know there is no footage of it. But it does say on wikepedia that Chamberlain wasn't proud of the achievement cause he hit like 36 of 63 field goals and 28-of-32 free throws... I dunno, was any of you there? HA

[cyanide]

Still, ya gotta wonder how would rack up against the likes of Shaq or someone just as tall as him but more muscular.

True, I always wonder what it's like to put another player from a different era to today's game. It's hard to say, because even though Shaq dominated the recent era, Hakeem Olajuwon made Shaq look bad. The same can be said about Russell on Wilt. I think it's important not to discredit a player because of a different era, because he made achievements that should still be respected regardless of whether those achievements can be made today or not.

[Andrew]

I don't think Wilt Chamberlain could ever be described as overrated since there's no doubt he was a great player and his accomplishments are truly impressive. However, I've often felt that he gets the benefit of double standards when it comes to comparing him to other players throughout NBA history. For example, whenever the Michael Jordan vs Wilt Chamberlain debate pops up, the negative aspects of Jordan's game/career are always trotted out and highlighted whereas any criticism of Wilt is quickly dismissed.

His statistical feats are often mentioned and with good reason because as I said before they are impressive, but the fact that his playoff scoring average is almost eight points lower than his regular season average is seldom mentioned and one of those facts that are readily dismissed. Furthermore, not once did Wilt's scoring average rise in the playoffs compared to his regular season and more than once there was a significant difference between the two averages. In comparison, Michael Jordan's scoring average in the playoffs was lower than his regular season mark twice (35.7 ppg in the 1987 playoffs after averaging 37.1 ppg in the regular season and 31.1 ppg in 1991 after posting an average of 31.5 ppg).

That doesn't take away from the fact he averaged some great numbers over the course of a long regular season but for a player who is often billed as the greatest and "unstoppable" his playoff numbers suggest otherwise. But since playoff performance and success are considered factors in judging and ranking players throughout time it's generally accepted that the best of the best turn in even more impressive performances in the postseason. Indeed, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson are three examples of all-time greats whose career postseason averages are higher than their career regular season numbers. Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson are two noteable greats whose career playoff averages are significantly lower in a couple of major categories.

Excuses are often always made when it comes to teammates and winning, whereas it may normally be a slight against a player. Using the example of Michael Jordan again, it's often asserted that he wouldn't have been as successful without Scottie Pippen (which is not untrue, of course) and it's considered a knock against him because he could not win "by himself". However, it's often asserted that Wilt (and for that matter, Oscar Robertson) would have won more if only their teams had not been lacking in quality players. Not only does that ignore the fact both Wilt and The Big O did actually have some Hall of Fame teammates but it's also presenting the strength of the team as an excuse whereas the lack of team success of the Jordan led Bulls before the arrival and emergence of Scottie Pippen is considering a shortcoming.

A similar double standard has been used against Kevin Garnett in recent years. While I wouldn't place KG in the same company as Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson the criticism he received for the Timberwolves missing the playoffs and the assertion he is not a "superstar" ignores the fact that Robertson's Cincinnati Royals missed the postseason four times during his prime, including two consecutive seasons. Fans often point to Robertson's teammates but KG's Wolves have had their own personnel issues the last couple of years as well.

Having said that, the tag of "overrated" is far too harsh because it doesn't do justice to Wilt Chamberlain's accomplishments. The double standards will probably always be there because it is difficult to compare players across different eras and when it comes to the all-time greats we tend to think of the success they enjoyed rather than their shortcomings. To that end, perhaps his legend is exaggerated slightly at times which is inevitable with all great athletes as the years go by and we look back on memorable sporting moments with great fondness but his legacy and status as one of history's best are well-deserved.

[maniax1075]

[quote="Andrew"][/quote]

No I totally agree with Jordan not being able to do it on his own. Pippen I believe is probably the most underrated player of all time, without him, no doubt Jordan could've been what he was. And also it took more then just those two as well, Horace Grant, BJ, Paxson and Cartwright all played significant roles in the 91-93 championships, and Harper, Kukoch, Rodamn and maybe Longly where also major roles in the 96, 97, 98 championships.

And tho Jordan is my all time #1 fav, and he did some decent stuff with the Wizards, I still think it was a huge mistake for him to play for the Wizards, I kind of stopped watch the NBA after 98, so I cant really give a good review of the rest of the Wizards team, but I think Jordan really overlooked the aspect that it took two greats to make a championship team, and without Pippen it was a major, major, major factor of why the Wizards couldn't get a championship. Plus, without a dominant rebounder like Grant or Rodman, or outside scorers like Kerr, Paxson, Kuckoch... the Wizards didn't have that force to be reckoned with aspect to it.

I was recently watching the tribute to Pippen where they retired his number, and I was glad to see he got the respect he deserved and that they did make it clear that Pippen was the #2 that that quietly kind of stood in the shadows of Jordan, but did not in anyway go unnoticed. It was really around 1994 after Jordan left that the spotlight and skills of Pippen started to really be noticed and respected and i was glad he played for the dream team and was chosen to be one of the top 50 players of all time, cause it could've been easy for all the spotlight to be taken by Jordan alone.

So yeah, you're absolutely right, if Pippen had never gone to the bulls, I don't know if Jordan could've ever made it to the final series... i mean ya never know, they could've had someone else come along and step up to the role, but it also could've been the Charles Barkley story; someone I think was deserving of a championship ring, but was never able to achieve it. When I saw Barkley at Phillie, there wasn't really a #2 guy, at Pheonix, KJ was pretty good backup, so was Dan Marjle, but not quite what was needed to be #1, tho they almost got there in 93,.. and when he went to Houston and teamed with Olajuwan, Drexler, Cassel I thought for sure that team had what it took to get there and Barkley would finally find himself a ring, but the Bulls would become unstoppable again.

Oh well, maybe in the future he will coach a team to the championships and get what I think he deserves.

Jordan did ask Barkley to come play with him on the Wizards, but Barkley said no, there time was over, and tho i would've loved to see what Jordan had in mind to bring in who he had in mind, I think Barkley was right, there time was over... Jordan knees blew out, Barkley blew out his back or something, if it only hadve been done when they where in there prime ya mightve seen a team that left any others for dead.

[Jeffx]

To me, Wilt was the best ever. He was to me what Jordan is to the younger NBA fans. I get annoyed hearing today's generation pumping up Jordan at Wilt's expense. Anyone who says Wilt is overrated has no clue. Remember the NBA was a lot tougher back then. Wilt put up those numbers while taking a beating every night. As Kareem said in his book, "A lot of guys are still alive today because Wilt never lost his cool". When it comes to the greatest, Wilt is 1a, Jordan 1b.

[3P]

What Kareem meant is that Wilt was so powerful that he could have killed anyone.
Also what do you mean Wilt 1a Jordan 1b? Is Jordan 2 or what?

[cyanide]

Remember the NBA was a lot tougher back then.

How come? I always thought the 80's were to be the toughest with the Bad Boys and the Knicks (Oakley and Xavier) beating up teams every night. I'm not sure how previous decades were tougher.

[Sauru]

i would agree that the 80's is probably the toughest era of the nba. i think the nba we have now is by far the softest and that has alot to do with the refs and the commish and how they want the game to get called.

wilt was a great player and you hear alot that he played way back when and players were not that good then. i say to hell with that. i watch todays nba. half the players on the court cant make a shot to save thier life. we are in a time right now where every single team is heavily watered down and the teams with money can stack up all the talent they want just to make thier lives easier. one thing you need to remember is when wilt played, the nba was not watered down. there was alot less teams then so only the top got to play. that being said, he also played in a time that was white dominated and alot of the best players did not even get a chance to play based on thier skin color alone. so it is probably true that the nba did not have the best available players on the court when wilt played i still think those players should not be considered so much worse than the ones of today.

when jordan vs wilt comes up, and it does alot, i always go with jordan. infact i would also take bird and magic prior to wilt. i believe these players(mainly bird and magic) played and won at the height of the nba. they did some of the most amazing things anyone could ever dream of seeing and they did it almost nightly. now thats not to take away from wilt, cause i place him in 4th on my list, but like andrew said, when it mattered he played worse. then you got jordan, who has never lost in the finals.

to sum it up and answer the question, no way is wilt overrated, infact in some cases i think he is underrated. i think too often people consider him a monster and nothing more and they completly fail to realize how much of an athlete he really was.

[Jeffx]

I agree with most of what Sauru said(except the part about Wilt being #4 and the 80s being more physical). I always felt the 70s was more rougher than the 80s. It wasn't until the Kermit Washington?Rudy T incident that the league really started to crack down.

[Sauru]

my opinion on the toughness could be a bit off, i grew up watching the celtics play and play vs the pistons alot and those 2 teams just beat the hell out of each other lol. so thats what i have the best memory of growing up.

[Jeffx]

my opinion on the toughness could be a bit off, i grew up watching the celtics play and play vs the pistons alot and those 2 teams just beat the hell out of each other lol. so thats what i have the best memory of growing up.

You should check out tapes of the 70s Celtics championship teams. They didn't come tougher than Dave Cowens and Paul Silas. You took your life in your hands driving down the lane on those cats, man.

[Andrew]

No I totally agree with Jordan not being able to do it on his own. Pippen I believe is probably the most underrated player of all time, without him, no doubt Jordan could've been what he was. And also it took more then just those two as well, Horace Grant, BJ, Paxson and Cartwright all played significant roles in the 91-93 championships, and Harper, Kukoch, Rodamn and maybe Longly where also major roles in the 96, 97, 98 championships.[/color]

No question, I completely agree that Pippen's importance is often underrated. However, my point is that when comparing players like Wilt and Robertson to MJ and the issue of their success and their teammates comes up there's a double standard. Specifically, the fact that the Jordan led Bulls didn't enjoy true success until the emergence of Pippen is considered a failing because he couldn't do it alone. Conversely, when it comes to Wilt - who also couldn't win a championship alone - not being able to win due to the team's deficiencies is offered as an excuse.

It's the same situation: two great players on teams who in their careers have been on teams that were in some way lacking. The difference is for one player (Jordan) it's a shortcoming, for the other (Wilt) it's an excuse. Either that or Wilt's lack of playoff success is due to the powerful Boston Celtics and their cavalcade of Hall of Famers (which contradicts the "Bill Russell is the greatest" arguments but that's a topic for another time).

To me, Wilt was the best ever. He was to me what Jordan is to the younger NBA fans. I get annoyed hearing today's generation pumping up Jordan at Wilt's expense. Anyone who says Wilt is overrated has no clue. Remember the NBA was a lot tougher back then. Wilt put up those numbers while taking a beating every night. As Kareem said in his book, "A lot of guys are still alive today because Wilt never lost his cool". When it comes to the greatest, Wilt is 1a, Jordan 1b.

No doubt, but it happens the other way too. As I said in my first post criticisms of Wilt are often dismissed very quickly as irrelevant, yet it's criteria upon which other players are judged and ranked.

I guess it's just a generation thing, we all feel that the NBA we grew up watching is the best, the toughest to play in and that the players we idolised are the standard of excellence. Sometimes I feel the same way about the current generation of players that you probably have through the Jordan/Magic/Bird era onwards, though I reckon today more than ever there's more focus on elevating players to all-time elite status because the NBA would like to promote today's stars the same way it sold the 80s and 90s to millions of fans worldwide and establish someone as the icon of the league.

[Sauru]

my opinion on the toughness could be a bit off, i grew up watching the celtics play and play vs the pistons alot and those 2 teams just beat the hell out of each other lol. so thats what i have the best memory of growing up.

You should check out tapes of the 70s Celtics championship teams. They didn't come tougher than Dave Cowens and Paul Silas. You took your life in your hands driving down the lane on those cats, man.

well like i said, i grew up watching the 80's celtics, so thats what is in my mind the most. i am probably highly biased towards the 80's due to that fact. probably in the same way that everyone growing up know think kobe is a god.

[maniax1075]

my opinion on the toughness could be a bit off, i grew up watching the celtics play and play vs the pistons alot and those 2 teams just beat the hell out of each other lol. so thats what i have the best memory of growing up.

You should check out tapes of the 70s Celtics championship teams. They didn't come tougher than Dave Cowens and Paul Silas. You took your life in your hands driving down the lane on those cats, man.

well like i said, i grew up watching the 80's celtics, so thats what is in my mind the most. i am probably highly biased towards the 80's due to that fact. probably in the same way that everyone growing up know think kobe is a god.

Kobe is not god and doesn't compare to Jordan, Bird, Johnson or Chamberlain, but thats another topic all together.

[shadowgrin]

They didn't come tougher than Dave Cowens and Paul Silas. You took your life in your hands driving down the lane on those cats, man.

I remember Barkley saying that Silas has gone soft and Silas should just beat the crap out of the entire Cavs team to get them to play defense. Barkley, who is also a bruiser himself, played through the roughness of the 80's and 90's NBA, and for him to recognize Silas' ass-whooping skills, that's some serious rep for Paul Silas' toughness.