Garnett: Will he stay or will he go?

[Donatello]

He should just come on over to the Blazers this offseason. Yeppers.

[Silas]

They'd only take it for like Darius, Randolph, and Roy... those are the only contracts that match up close enough, and even those are far off... Maybe LaFrentz instead or something IDK...

The Sonics should trade for him... Rashard and Swift/Petro/Sene and Fortson.

[Riot]

But you have to ask yourself...why would the Timberwolves want anyone on the Blazers roster besides Brandon Roy? Darius Miles might be done for his career and is a headcase. Zach Randolph makes a lot of money, can't play defense and is considered to be a "cancer". I don't know why the Wolves would want LaFrentz if they are rebuilding.

There is no trade that makes sense really for the Timberwolves. If Garnett ever does leave the Timberwolves I think it will be as a free agent.

[Nel]

I think the lakers is the best team suited for garnett. Playing for phil and be the second option to kobe would be the best situation for him. The problem is the lakers are getting better and bynum might turn out to be a beast in the near future.

[Jugs]

I agree with Riot, the only way he's gonna leave is through free agency.

[Axel]

I agree with air gordon on this, KG is extremely overhyped. When was the last time he took over a game offensively? Yeah, 20 - 25 points is great, but when you talk of Garnett, you instantly think superstar. Those aren't superstar numbers, especially in a league where seemingly everyone is averaging over 25 ppg. Garnett is comprable to Elton Brand in almost every category, yet for some reason people tend to give Garnett the nod as the better. Garnett hardly even makes the top in the west for PF's. Through this season I'd rank him below each of the following:

Shawn Marion
Tim Duncan
Zach Randolph
Dirk Nowitzki
Carlos Boozer

... and he's probably tied with Elton Brand for 6th best in the WEST.

[rochefort]

His contract means he is stuck, weather he wants to stay or not.

Only team dumb enough to take it on would be NY, but they are worse then the wolves so he couldn't want to go there, even with AssBury at PG

[Jowe]

He's probably gonna opt out if he does move. He's already made over 200 million at this point.

[Riot]

I agree with air gordon on this, KG is extremely overhyped.

Overhyped? How often do you hear his name mentioned on ESPN? Garnett is often left out of many discussions for best player in the league.

When was the last time he took over a game offensively?

I can give you a lot of examples when he took over a game offensively. However, that really would be pointless and a waste of my time. I can show you when he has been clutch in the playoffs. The only Game 7 he has ever been in (was also his birthday) he put up

Yeah, 20 - 25 points is great, but when you talk of Garnett, you instantly think superstar. Those aren't superstar numbers, especially in a league where seemingly everyone is averaging over 25 ppg.

You are forgetting one major factor in this...those guys shoot the ball a lot more often than Garnett does. Garnett shoots a higher percentage than all of those guys. Garnett is usually in the top 10 in FG% for the season. You have to keep in mind Garnett only shoots 14-16 times a game. In the games where he does take a lot of shots he will get a ton of points, like most "superstars". However, why is the only thing that matters points in terms of judging a players impact? Garnett gets the job done defensively, on the glass, scoring, operating the offense out of the post and using his range offensively to draw big men out of the paint. His impact on the game is immense...it just doesn't show up in the box score. If you think you have score 30ppg to be a superstar then I think you are mistaken. Steve Nash doesn't have to score a lot of points to make a huge impact and neither does Kevin Garnett but don't let that fool you...Garnett can score with the best of them. He just has that team mentality. He doesn't like to force shots. How is that a bad thing?

Garnett is comprable to Elton Brand in almost every category, yet for some reason people tend to give Garnett the nod as the better. Garnett hardly even makes the top in the west for PF's.

I'm not really going to respond to this. If that is your opinion that is your opinion.

Through this season I'd rank him below each of the following:

Shawn Marion
Tim Duncan
Zach Randolph
Dirk Nowitzki
Carlos Boozer

If you would take Zach Randolph or Carlos Boozer over Kevin Garnett you must be on crack. I'm willing to bet both Utah and Portland would jump all over a Garnett for Randolph or Boozer trade. Especially Randolph, because the guy hasn't seen a shot he doesn't like and ia awful defensively. Boozer is no where close to being as versitale as Garnett offensively. Just because they are putting up some good stats this season doesn't mean they are better. The season has barely started. Garnett almost broke the record for consecutive double-doubles in a row. I don't think you've even seen Kevin Garnett play before.

... and he's probably tied with Elton Brand for 6th best in the WEST.

You should be a General Manager.

[Amphatoast]

Shawn Marion--not a leader
Tim Duncan
Zach Randolph--not a leader/ no D
Dirk Nowitzki
Carlos Boozer--not a leader/no D

... and he's probably tied with Elton Brand for 6th best in the WEST.

Brand hasn't done much winning just like KG, and well, KG can do a bit more than Brand. So in reality, minus going by stats this year its only

Duncan & Dirk are the ones who you can say is probably better than KG. Even Dirk is a stretch cause KG on dallas instead of Dirk might equal same success. KG will pass more and have people who can actually score

I'd say the same too about Duncan (going by stats KG>duncan), but I respect the rings he has earned.

[Matt]

also, Shawn Marion is an overrated defender @ the PF spot. Forget the numbers, he doesn't box out, and isn't a shotblocking/changing presence. His advantage is his quickness.

[Axel]

I said this year, and this year, Zach Randolph is playing extremely well. I don't think the question was ever his talent, but more his willingness to play hard and his recovery from the knee surgery. Same thing goes for Boozer. He's still a young player, and has put up some great numbers, but again the limiting factor on him was his injuries.

You are forgetting one major factor in this...those guys shoot the ball a lot more often than Garnett does. Garnett shoots a higher percentage than all of those guys. Garnett is usually in the top 10 in FG% for the season. You have to keep in mind Garnett only shoots 14-16 times a game.

And that's his weakness. I don't care if he shoots a higher percentage. If he doesn't take more shots, his time won't win. For some players, that seems to be an incorrectable flaw in the their game (Boris diaw being another); they just don't shoot enough.

I'm not arguing that Garnett hasn't had a great career. For longevity, and good health, I'd pick him over quite a Boozer and Randolph. But if I had to pick between upside, and potential, I'd pick the others. Garnett could be a superstar, but he doesn't have the superstar mentality. I didn't even mention the Eastern conference PF's (i'd rather have Howard and Bosh from that group). Garnett is a career 20 and 10 guy. He could be much more, but I just dont think it's in his personality.

btw Amphatost, perhaps you could elaborate on what a leader is? What has KG done leadershipwise? He's only made it past the first round of the playoffs ONCE.

Garnett almost broke the record for consecutive double-doubles in a row. I don't think you've even seen Kevin Garnett play before.

Again thats great and all, but he never rises his game above his 20/10 average. Marion essentially averages the same, but he certainly doesn't get the hype that Garnett does.

If you think you have score 30ppg to be a superstar then I think you are mistaken. Steve Nash doesn't have to score a lot of points to make a huge impact and neither does Kevin Garnett but don't let that fool you...Garnett can score with the best of them. He just has that team mentality. He doesn't like to force shots. How is that a bad thing?

No, I don't think you need to score 30 ppg to be a superstar , or have a huge impact, but when you have the potential to do so, and to be as efficient as KG, you should take that opportunity. I mean really, who else is going to be taking the shots, Marko Jaric? He has the potential to put up huge numbers, but he differs to inferior players so often, he never maximizes his potential. He has the same mentality as Lamar Odom.

also, Shawn Marion is an overrated defender @ the PF spot. Forget the numbers, he doesn't box out, and isn't a shotblocking/changing presence.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying he is a good defender, but not at the PF spot? If so , that's really more of a product of his environment than anything. He's one of the most versatile defenders in the league; he played Sam Cassell last year in the playoffs when he got hot. He's a great help defender because of his quickness like you noted.

[Matt]

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying he is a good defender, but not at the PF spot? If so , that's really more of a product of his environment than anything. He's one of the most versatile defenders in the league; he played Sam Cassell last year in the playoffs when he got hot. He's a great help defender because of his quickness like you noted.

yeah that's exactly what i had in mind.

[kinokong]

Garnett just plays a different type of game than Boozer or Randolph or Brand.... All three are blue-collar workers that work down in the low post where as Garnett is more of a Pippen-like facilitator on offense. For Garnett to win a championship he needs a gutty, clutch veteran PG ala Sam Cassell and a slasher ala Corey Maggette, Paul Pierce or Latrell Sprewell who can play off Garnett setting up the offense off the high post or baseline.... Although Garnett isn't winning, you can't deny that he impacts the flow of the game when he's in there and makes his team better, something you can't really say for Boozer or Brand(Boozer because he has so much other big man and talented players on his team and Brand because he wasn't doing shit either until Cassell showed up and taught him how to take over and play like a man). Just imagine what kind of tragedy this team would be without Garnett and you'll see that he isn't terribly overrated

[Riot]

I said this year, and this year, Zach Randolph is playing extremely well. I don't think the question was ever his talent, but more his willingness to play hard and his recovery from the knee surgery.

People can question his defense and it is a legit question, too. Randolph cannot defend.

Same thing goes for Boozer. He's still a young player, and has put up some great numbers, but again the limiting factor on him was his injuries.

Carlos Boozer is a great roleplayer but he is not a superstar. He is not better than Kevin Garnett. He has played well at the start of the season but he will not play all 82 games and finish with 22 and 11. Garnett impacts the game on a much larger scale than Boozer does...that's for sure.

And that's his weakness. I don't care if he shoots a higher percentage.

You don't? Shooting a high percentage doesn't matter to you? Since when is that not important?

If he doesn't take more shots, his time won't win. For some players, that seems to be an incorrectable flaw in the their game (Boris diaw being another); they just don't shoot enough.

People insult Iverson and Bryant because they shoot too much and they don't get their teammates involved. Garnett doesn't like to take bad shots. He is a team player and he likes to run the offense. Now you think that is a bad quality? You think to be a superstar you have to be able to shoot bad shots? You need to be a volume shooter? I think you have superstar and scoring title mixed up.

I'm not arguing that Garnett hasn't had a great career. For longevity, and good health, I'd pick him over quite a Boozer and Randolph. But if I had to pick between upside, and potential, I'd pick the others.

You obviously wouldn't pick Garnett for upside and potential because he has been in the league for 12 years. But Garnett is obviously more talented, polished and has a better attitude to build a winning team around than Boozer and Randolph. Those two players are not franchise players...Kevin Garnett is.

Garnett could be a superstar, but he doesn't have the superstar mentality.

This is stupid. Kevin Garnett is a superstar, in my opinion. You seem to have this stupid idea in your head that to be a superstar you have to shoot 20+ shots a game and finish with 30+ points a game. Garnett has shown he can take over a game (he did it plenty of times in 2003-2004 when he actually played in games that counted). In Game 7 of the Western Conference Semifinals he put up 32 points and 21 rebounds to defeat the Kings and advance to the WCF. Tell me that isn't clutch. Tell me that when you were watching that game you had doubts whether or not he was a superstar. If so, I'd have to tell you that you are crazy.

I didn't even mention the Eastern conference PF's (i'd rather have Howard and Bosh from that group). Garnett is a career 20 and 10 guy. He could be much more, but I just dont think it's in his personality.

Howard and Bosh will be better than Garnett down the road (probably next year) but right now Garnett is still better than them. You aren't giving Garnett enough credit here, dude. You don't like his personality? His personality that he hates to lose and that he wants to run the offense because he thinks that is how the team should be run? Garnett has a killer instinct and he can hit clutch shots but you are forgetting one big problem...HE DOESN'T GET THE BALL IN THE CLUTCH! Last season the Timberwolves could not get the ball to Garnett in the 4th quarter. The teams would double Garnett in the post without the ball and the team would either turn it over or throw up a crazy shot due to the shot clock. Other teams would not let Garnett get the ball. Earlier in the year when the Wolves were 12-6 Garnett hit about 5 clutch shots in those first 12 games. He is clutch. He can take over a game. But his best asset is the fact that he will not force things offensively and that he can impact a game in every single area. Now that is a superstar.

btw Amphatost, perhaps you could elaborate on what a leader is? What has KG done leadershipwise? He's only made it past the first round of the playoffs ONCE.

Kevin Garnett has shown nothing but leadership in his time in Minnesota. He has shown it on the court and off the court in the community. First off, the work he does in the community and the leadership role he takes in the Timberwolves charity events speaks volumes in itself. He is a leader and he brings that mentality to his charity events. On the floor, Garnett is a leader by example, emotion and now wisdom.

Garnett is a leader by example because every single time he laces up his shoes he plays at 100%. He plays as hard as he does in the games at practices. He doesn't take a day off. He expects his teammates to play the same way. When you see your best player out there busting his ass in practice it makes you want to do that same thing, right? You got a leader on your team that only cares about winning and playing basketball the right way. That kind of example should rub off on most players.

Garnett is also a leader by emotion. He is an emotional guy and he tries to lift his team and himself by releasing those emotions. He will yell, scream, clap and do anything he can to motivate his team and himself. He has that ability to pump up his teammates by his emotion on the court. A great leader should be able to do that.

Garnett is now a leader by knowledge, too. Over the past few years he has taken on a leadership role by helping the younger guys out. He has taken guys like Eddie Griffin, Rashad McCants and even Ndudi Ebi under his wing. He has told Timberwolves personal to put Griffin's locker next to his so he can talk to him everyday personally. You often see him on the bench talking to the young guys like Craig Smith, Randy Foye and Bracey Wright. In practice Garnett has taken on a more vocal role in helping out the younger guys. Garnett will stay after in practice to work with the younger guys. Garnett has done a lot as a leader. By not leaving this franchise during it's darkest hour he has shown leadership. Kevin Garnett and leadership go hand in hand. You don't have to be a champion to be a leader.

Again thats great and all, but he never rises his game above his 20/10 average. Marion essentially averages the same, but he certainly doesn't get the hype that Garnett does.

1. Garnett doesn't rise his game above 20/10? In the postseason his career stats all rise (and that is including his first ever playoff apperance when he was 20). In the 03-04 playoffs he elevated his game enough to push the most stacked Laker team to 6 games despite not having a point guard. Over the years he has only gotten better shooting percentage wise and rebounding wise. I didn't know 23/13.5/6/1.6/1.4 was bad numbers. And that wasn't even his best statistical season.

2. Marion plays with Steve Nash in a run and gun offense. It is easy for him to get points because he gets a lot of lobs, lay-ups and dunks. Think about Garnett's FG% if he played with Steve Nash.

3. I still don't get what you mean by not rising above his 20/10 average. Couldn't I say the same thing for Tim Duncan? I just don't understand what the hell you are talking about.

No, I don't think you need to score 30 ppg to be a superstar , or have a huge impact, but when you have the potential to do so,

Garnett does have the potential to do so. How do I know that? Because he has done it plenty of times over his career! By god, just because everyone says he isn't clutch doesn't mean he isn't. Just because you don't see him scoring 40+ points a night doesn't mean he can't. Garnett has had games where he went out there and decided he was going to dominate. I've seen a lot of those games and it is a site to behold. He doesn't do it often though because he doesn't like to do it. But like you said...he has the potential to do it!

and to be as efficient as KG, you should take that opportunity. I mean really, who else is going to be taking the shots, Marko Jaric? He has the potential to put up huge numbers, but he differs to inferior players so often, he never maximizes his potential. He has the same mentality as Lamar Odom.

Garnett use to have players like Wally Szczerbiak, Chauncey Billups, Anthony Peeler, Joe Smith and other players who fit into Flip Saunders system perfectly. He had players that knew the system and could hit open shots. Now that Flip is gone and all those players are gone that isn't happening as often now. But it is hard to change your mentality that you have had for 10+ seasons. Garnett wants to run the offense and make sure the team gets the right shot. He admits that sometimes that will not be him.

[Riot]

Garnett frustrated with management but not unhappy

Code: Select all

Garnett: I'm happy
Timberwolves star speaks out on rumors of his discontent
BY RICK ALONZO
Pioneer Press

PHILADELPHIA — Kevin Garnett shed more light on his feelings about being with the Timberwolves on Sunday than he has since before the season started.

Garnett, speaking after the Wolves' 95-84 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers that snapped a three-game losing streak, addressed a flood of recent woe-is-he reports.

Some say Garnett should be traded because he deserves the opportunity to play on a team that can win a championship. Some say Garnett deserves another star to complement him. And just about all assume Garnett is unhappy.

"I've never said I (was) unhappy," Garnett said. "I don't know where y'all get that (expletive) from. None of y'all have asked me that."

Garnett took a shot at the Wolves' front office, saying questions should be directed at the people who haven't acquired better talent. Regarding those who call for Garnett to be traded, the nine-time all-star said there's no guarantee he would win a title if he went to another team.

The Wolves improved to 7-9, but outside expectations are low. They haven't made the playoffs since 2003-04, the season they reached the Western Conference finals.

"People feel sorry for me?" Garnett said. "I don't go out and scout players. I don't do any of the front office stuff. This thing's bigger than Kevin Garnett. I'm a piece, but... I don't want nobody to feel sorry for me. I bust my (butt) to come in and be consistent every year. If you want to feel sorry for somebody, feel sorry for the people who put the team together and haven't put me in a position to be in those situations. Don't feel sorry for me."

It's become fashionable for some television analysts, such as ex-players Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller, not to mention newspaper and Internet columnists, to say Garnett is unhappy, and he should take his search for a championship elsewhere.

Garnett said that's the way things are these days. He said people are used to players going to new teams if their current squads aren't winning.

"There isn't any guarantee that you're going to win if you go to a new team," Garnett said. "The teams that are supposed to be the best in the West, some of those teams are dealing with some of the things we're dealing with: chemistry, ball movement, all that stuff. That's around the league. It ain't like you're going to another league. Don't feel sorry for me. I'm out here busting my (butt)."

The Chicago Bulls often are mentioned as a possible destination for Garnett. The Bulls have plenty of talented young players to offer the Wolves in exchange for Garnett, who, the thinking goes, might be excited about the opportunity to play in the city where he attended Farragut Academy.

Others say the Los Angeles Lakers would be a good fit, with the possibility of Garnett playing alongside Kobe Bryant. Garnett owns a home in Malibu, Calif.

"People want me to play with another superstar," Garnett said. "People want me to play with these other guys and reminisce of the days of Sam (Cassell) and Spree (Latrell Sprewell)."

Cassell and Sprewell helped Garnett and the Wolves reach the Western Conference finals, but the Wolves' talent level hasn't been the same since the 2003-04 season. Cassell and Sprewell have been gone since the end of the 2004-05 season.

"You can only do so much as a player," Garnett said. "Don't feel sorry for me. If anything, take that up with Mac (Kevin McHale, Wolves vice president of basketball operations). Take that up with Stack (general manager Jim Stack). Take it up with Freddie (Fred Hoiberg, assistant general manager). Don't take it up with me."


"What's the guarantee of going to another team and going to the (NBA) Finals?" Garnett said. "You know how hard it is to get to the Western Conference Finals, much less the (NBA) finals? It is what it is."

Asked to look back, Garnett said he's happy he was drafted fifth overall by Minnesota in 1995. He said he's grateful for the opportunity he has had to learn about post play from McHale, a hall of famer. He's thankful for the knowledge he acquired from former coach Flip Saunders. And Garnett said he has had some great teammates who taught him how to be a professional on and off the court.

"I've been very fortunate to be pick No. 5," Garnett said. "If done over again, I'd want to be No. 5 again."


[cyanide]

Garnett should be applauded to remain loyal to his team. He wants to win a championship, but not for himself but for his team, which is rare these days *coughs* Marbury, Francis, NY Knicks *coughs*

[Indy]

Garnett should be applauded to remain loyal to his team. He wants to win a championship, but not for himself but for his team, which is rare these days *coughs* Marbury, Francis, VC, T-Mac *coughs*

... ?

Cy, becoming a bigtime mod has gone so far to your head that you simply quote yourself now?

[Riot]

He quoted it for truth.

[cyanide]

The 'quote' and 'edit' buttons are too similar

[air gordon]

it's the same argument over and over but i will agree KG is a superstar in this league though i think he is falling into the Grant Hill territory. great overrall talent, just not good enough to carry his team consistently to wins

i'm a KG fan myself and appreciate his abilities/accomplishments/etc..

but


for all the skills Garnett has and all this talk on how he is such a nightmare matchup on offense- he should be consistently taking over games offensivley late in games. his greatest moment was indeed game 7 in Conf semis and for pretty much that year he was clutch. i'll give him that. i know you will agree, Riot- we haven't seen too much of that KG ever since

you want to claim "that's not his style"? fine. then don't say he has that killer instinct and that he really despises losing or whatever.

and just a friendly question- would it even be worth the price to pay to land a player that will just defer to other players at the end of ballgames?

i think everyone will agree here that Iverson and bryant are better clutch players then kG

[Riot]

It's hard for Garnett to win when he has no teammates. The story of Garnett's career has been get big leads and then watch them fall apart when he goes to the bench. This year is no exception. Here are a few examples.

1. The Timberwolves score 90 points per 100 possessions when Garnett isn't in the game. That is an awful percentage. We are not talking about scoring 90 times...we are talking 90 points. That is well under 50%.

2. The Timberwolves are outscored in every single position on the team besides PF (Garnett's position). Not too many players can make up the difference of 4 positions on a team. Garnett is good but he isn't that good.

I'm not saying Garnett isn't flawed. A big flaw has to do with the fact that he does not score 30+ points a night. That just isn't who he is. He is an efficent scorer who plays within the context of the team. That is good but at times when you need him to step up offensively he defers. He has flaws. Everyone does. Hell, even Michael Jordan had flaws as small as they were. Case in point, Garnett's flaws are often used to undermine his ability and his leadership. He simply has never had good teammates around him for his career here. How can you knock him for that? He lead the Timberwolves to numerous 50+ win seasons with rosters that weren't even close to the other Western Conference teams in terms of talent and depth. The problem with the Wolves now is they do not have a playmaker at the guard position and it is a guard league. Without that playmaker the team is lost.

Airgordon, I know you like to attack Garnett and attack me for being a homer. I think sometimes you are a little too unfair to Garnett. He is not the reason why the Wolves are losing. Not even Lebron James or Kobe Bryant could carry this team to the postseason. The team and the coaching staff just seem clueless out there. HOWEVER, like cyanide said...we should be applauding Garnett's (and Iverson's) willingness to stay with one team and one franchise to make it right. Those two don't jump ship when the going gets tough. How can you not respect that?

[air gordon]

i'm not sure i'm supposed to reply the first part of that post since you only addressed me until the last paragraph...

riot- i think you have things mixed up here. sure- i'll call you out a few times for being quite defensive about kg.. rightly so

however- i don't "attack" kg, let alone take pleasure in attacking him. i don't know how much more clear i can be on this. i've already mentioned many times how i think kg is a superstar in this league and that i respect him, give him his due, etc etc. i even had a lengthy debate with matthew about JO vs kg

just because i'm criticizing him doesn't mean i'm attacking him or being a "little too unfair "(whatever that means lol). the 2 points of criticism i brought up are warranted:
-with the skillset he has- he should be taking games more offensively. i don't want to hear excuses about flaws or whatever. he showed he could do it in a playoff series. oh yeh- Jordan had some flaws throughout his career- namely not being a good outside shooter, great defender, great teammate/leader. guess what- he overcame them rather then accepted it

-considering the amount of minutes garnett has played in his career and the deferring he does on offense in 4th quarters, would it be a wise decision for a team to probably trade it's best player, it's 1st round draft pick, and give up a bulk of it's salary cap for a player of that caliber?? probably not

[Riot]

You are also forgetting the fact that Garnett has not had many chances to be clutch over the past two years. Whenever the game is close in the 4th quarter he either carries us back and wins it for us or he can't get the ball. The team has had a lot of problems with turnovers and getting Garnett the ball in the post come crunch time. He isn't Kobe, Iverson or Lebron where he brings the ball up the floor and creates offense himself. He has to rely on his teammates to get him the ball. Right now, the teammates simply aren't making very wise decisions.

Granted, I agree sometimes he needs to learn how to take over a game. It would also be great if he could develop a good hook shot.

[Christopherson]

I think KG is one of the most unique talents the game has ever seen, and maybe that is what disappoints me so much. I think everyone agrees that KG is a superstar. In my opinion, in order to be consider a step higher than that, in order to be considered a legend, a player either needs to flat out dominate, or flat out win. KG has done neither. It also helps to have defining games; games you can point to and say there wasn't a player on either team that even belonged on the floor with him. When I think of KG, he doesn't have any games like that. I'll applaud his loyalty as much as any person, but loyalty isn't enough to make him a legend.