RealGM: Standing 10 - The Best Power Fowards

What about AI putting up over 30 PPG, and taking so many shots each game?

Its the AI and Webber show in Philly, that's what I meant. Webber is the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th option on that team, which is why they are so bad.

So I really don't see how one can think Wallace is a "million times" better than Webber. Webber has much more value and skill. He can really be a factor in a game, he already showed that last year. Wallace..not so much.

Really? Wallace is the best player on a team that featured 4 all stars and made back to back trips to the finals, and an Eastern Conference finals. Without Rasheed the Pistons don't get passed the Pacers in 04, they don't get past them again in 05, and they also don't get passed Miami. They also certainly don't go 7 with the Spurs.

K-Mart didnt make it! Nah j/k but, AK-47 should've gotten on the list, he plays both forward positions.

AK-47 should've gotten on the list, he plays both forward positions.

No, he really doesn't.

yes he does and im a pistons fan but i still agree c-webb kills sheed

Wallace is the best player on a team that featured 4 all stars

Personally, I think Billups is the Pistons best player and he was the MVP candidate, not Sheed. And he was an all-star mainly because the team was performing so well, not because of what Sheed can do, because PF's who put up 15 PPG, 6.8 RPG shouldn't make the ASG.

Without Rasheed the Pistons don't get passed the Pacers in 04, they don't get past them again in 05, and they also don't get passed Miami. They also certainly don't go 7 with the Spurs.

True, maybe not. But if they had Webber, they would've done the same and maybe beaten the Spurs. Rasheed was a factor in their accomplishments because they probably couldn't have done all those things with McDyess playing PF. He helped the Pistons accomplish all those things, but it doesn't change the fact that if Webber was in his shoes, the Pistons would've done even better since he's a much better player, scorer, rebounder, passer, and leader.

1- duncan
2- garnett
3- nowitzki
4- stoudemire
5- howard
6- brand
7- rasheed
8- gasol
9- jamison
10- o'neal

My List would be

1- Duncan (2 MVP's, 3 Rings hes still the best even though he had a bad season)
2 - Garnett ( hes dominant, put him on a better team and he will have rings by now)
3 - Nowitzki (Puts up solid numbers and is a good leader, really plays a different style PF)
4 - Brand ( hes been solid in his role at the Clippers and can be really dominant, but i still dont think hes in the top 3 just yet)
5 - Stoudemire ( This guy suffered a bad injury but if you look at his past seasons, he was so dominant he was basically unstoppable, i always remember that huge dunk he did on Kandi man )
6 - Gasol ( He is the franchise for the grizzlies and i think he does a good job, shame to see him miss the first part of this season)
7 - Howard ( This guy has been hiding in the shadow of Steve Francis for a while, soon as he was moved on, Dwight began to dominate, should have a good year this year)
8 - Chris Bosh ( same as Gasol he is the franchise of the Raptors, i think once he puts some more weight on he will become much more stronger and physical like a true PF)
9 - Marion ( Hes an awesome finisher from Steve Nash and puts up some solid numbers for PHX, id like to see him play without Nash to see if he is a different player)
10 - O'neal ( this guy has had injuries for a while, but hes come a long long way since his Portland rookie days, hed probably be higher if it wasnt for injury)

For the future: Channing Frye (bright spot for NYK), Charlie V ( i think he will become much stronger with the Bucks, Emeka Okafor (been injured so might take time to bounce back)

Rasheeds stats are a little misleading. Detroit shared the ball so much that guys like him, billups and hamilton, that could be star players on some teams, had average stat lines. Chris Webber had a better season than Rasheed, no doubt about it, but he might not be more skilled, at going into next season. Stats aside, think about Webbers strengths:

Smart in the post
Passing
Shooting the midrange J
Good defender in terms of stealing the ball
Strong
Good ball handler
Good rebounder

Weaknesses:

3 point shooting (obviously)
Shot Blocking
Speed and Quickness

Then Rasheed:

Strengths:

Shooting the 3
Shooting Midrange
Scoring in the post
Shot Blocking
Commits very very few turnovers
Just as good as Webber in terms of stealing the ball
Quick for a big man
Strong
Good Rebounder

Weaknesses:

Ball handling - Although hes pretty good in the post
Passing
Not quite as smart as Webber
Doesnt play like a big man enough

So, right now, going into next season I would take Rasheed ahead of Webber. Even more so now that Ben is gone, which should see his rebounds rise and probably even his bpg. Although you cant really lose skill, as you get older you dont have the ability to use it to its full power, and thats the case with Webber - plus he has had plenty injuries on top of that. Rasheed hasnt really seemed to slow down due to age much at all, and is still causing matchup problems on the regular, and taking advantage of those. Its obvious Chris Webber was a better player throughout his career, but right now, I take Rasheed. I probably missed out some stuff but oh well

Why bother with all that crap to try and compare sheed to webber?

Webber - NO defence
Sheed - HAS defence

thats all you need...

coz ppl would answer back with things like:

"Chris Webber is a way better passer"

"Rasheed isnt as smart"

"Rasheed isnt as good in the post"

"Rasheed didnt fuck Tyra Banks"

Hes an amazing rebounder, great defender

you lost me right here.....regarding Jamison

Matt, Rasheed is easily better than Webber? Rasheed's 15 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 2.3 APG and bad temper isn't really comparable to Webber's 20/10 and great passing in the post. Webber is also more clutch and much more valuable to his team while Rasheed is usually in the shadow of Billups, Hamilton and Prince. Webber was much better than Sheed when they were in the West (Portland and Sacramento) and he's still better now in the East.

Rasheed is an excellent passer too, especially from the high post. More clutch....i haven't heard CLUTCH & WEBBER in the same sentence ever. Webber shy's away in the 4th and that's why he needed Bibby to finish the job. The Pistons on the other hand look for Rasheed in the 4th.....he's buried teams with his outside shooting...i clearly remember against Miami (Game 7), SAS, Lakers, Mavs....even this off-season he had that play on Varejao in Game 6 in the last min. All throughout his career he's been clutch.

Defense isn't even an issue......Rasheed is SUPERIOR....even at rebounding. Yeah you can compare rebounding numbers, but if you look and compare how they play you see that most of Webbers rebounds are soft uncontested ones. Rebounds that allow guys like Kidd to get triple doubles. Rasheed can actually bang for the boards and pull out contested ones. One of Rasheeds jobs in Detroit was to seal off his man and allow someone else to grab the board.

We all know who wins the unselfishness category. He's also an underrated leader. Simply put Rasheed is the teams best player.

You think coaches worry about Webber when they play Philly? They just let him shoot his team in the foot with those jump shots. Despite being a 4th option coaches still are weary of Rasheed. Webber just fills the box score with little impact, Rasheed does the opposite....that's why he was voted an AS.

you lost me right here.....regarding Jamison

The stats dont tell the full story, 1.1spg. Have you ever watched Jamison play? He has the ability to guard any position from PG to PF. That in itself makes him a good defender, because of the matchup problems it creates. PGs, SGs, and most SFs would get bumped around by Jamisons big body, and even though he is only 6-9, when guarding PFs in the post he is as strong as any of them but he is also very quick. As for rebounding, he is 6-9 and his PF lable is a little misleading. He plays as a SF, switching between post and perimeter, defending guards and forwards. This gives him less of a chance to get boards and look what he does with those oppurtunities - 9.3 RPG... thats pretty damn good in my books.

lots of good points made here, out of all the positions, PF is definatley the hardest to rank. i agree with flite 23, jamison is a hell of a player but really needs to cement his place in the NBA big men with either a stellar year of 25 / 10 / 5 etc. Something he is very capable of yet he has Arenas on his team. If Jamison was the franchise player of Washington (without Arenas) i can definatley see him around the 28 and 10 mark, like Chris Webber of old. I didnt have him on my list as i see him as more of a SF, can guard both elite guards and fowards, needs to work on his outside shot tho

He has the ability to guard any position from PG to PF.

that's because he's mobile. He's still not a good defender. He gets beat off the dribble, in the post and is a poor weak side defender. His rotations are unimpressive and he's not a shot blocking factor.

needs to work on his outside shot tho

He shoots 40% from 3

that's because he's mobile. He's still not a good defender. He gets beat off the dribble, in the post and is a poor weak side defender. His rotations are unimpressive and he's not a shot blocking factor.

I rarely see Jamison get beat off the dribble, for the simple fact that he is just as quick as most guards plus he is far bigger and stronger. I do agree with you on his shot blocking, although he is only 6-9, he is very athletic (selected to the 2000 dunk contest), I really dont see why he doesnt block shots.

40% from 3 !

shit my bad, maybe he needs to take some more

Flite, there is no stat for defense. Jamison has the reputation of being a poor defensive player. He has done nothing to shake that reputation, either.

As for the current debate at hand, I would take Rasheed Wallace over Chris Webber anyday. Wallace is a great defender and a very talented offensive player. He has the talent to be one of the best players in the game, period. Obviously, he will never realize that potential but he still is able to turn the tide of a game through his all around game.

Matt, you make some good points but I have to disagree with you in that Webber is not clutch. How many game winners did Rasheed Wallace hit last season? All I remember is Billups and Hamilton getting it done.

As for Webber, you say Bibby had to get it done. Are you forgetting Webber's game winner against the Bucks? His game tying 3 against the Rockets, where Bibby inbounded the ball to him, he spun around on shot it over T-Mac? Then made more clutch shots in overtime and Sacramento ended up winning the game. He also had a game winner against the Magic and played a lot of good games in the 4th.

In Philly, he had a fantastic game against the T'Wolves where he shut down Garnett, blocked him twice very late in the game, and knocked the ball out of his hands when he had a wide open dunk/layup. And he almost single-handedly carried the Sixers to victory on offense in the 4th quarter and into overtime. AI had under 20 points in that game. Then there was that great triple overtime game against the Celtics. He made one superb play after another and hit countless clutch shots, not to mention stealing the ball on Boston's last possession to seal the game.

Never heard Webber and clutch in the same sentence? I doubt it.

lets talk playoff clutchness....Rasheed has hit so many 4th quarter 3's and made many big plays.