Tue May 23, 2006 12:24 pm
khrushchev alias Ryan. wrote:Well, I don't want to start an argument, but I'll state my opinion and you can have your opinion, that's some of what the Founding Fathers wanted, right?
Pierzynski was not at fault for the play. What he did was an entirely clean baseball play.
Tue May 23, 2006 1:30 pm
magius wrote:consider this the year after shaq's arrival/departure: miami prior to shaq (with lamar-caron) was 42-40 at .512 winning %....miami with shaq was 59-23 with a 720 winning %. la post shaq (with lamar-odom) is 34-48 at .415 winning.... la with shaq was 50-32 with a .61 winning %. That is a 20% switch both ways, and that is what i call the shaq effect. Those teams effectively switched destinies with that trade. la to glorified first round exits and parades for actually making the playoffs, and miami who would consider anything but a championship dissapointment.
Tue May 23, 2006 3:29 pm
But still haven't won anything... and probably won't. Being a contender and actually winning a championship are two entirely different things, and of all the teams remaining are probably the 2nd biggest longshot behind whoever wins Phoenix/LAC. The Lakers would've still been a contender for the last two seasons, I very much doubt they would've won a championship though.
Team chemistry isnt built overnight and that is what Miami had going for them that season which would have ran over to the next. Those guys were a close knit group which scrapped, battled together and were all on the same page. They started that year slow and then went on a run which would rival the records of the best teams in the league that year, this would have carried over also. The entire Miami Heat team did not move over to LA either, as Jae pointed out, it was a completely different supporting cast and also a completely different coaching staff. Give me Haslem over Cook any day. I commented specifically on that Miami Heat team so I dont even see how throwing around the Lakers record comes into play and even so you discount the fact that guys were injured. The Lakers had a winning record that year until that horrible run at the end of the season when guys started going down. They werent on a 34-48 pace all year contrary to popular belief. Even this year people talk and talk about LA as if they were the Hawks or Bobcats. They had a winning record with a less talented group than the previous year. They beat some of the top teams in the regular season and brought Phoenix, the #2 seed, to game 7. Thats a good year in my eyes considering their team roster.
Thu May 25, 2006 10:03 am
Jae wrote:Being a contender and actually winning a championship are two entirely different things
Thu May 25, 2006 10:15 am
Thu May 25, 2006 10:17 am
so what's this big difference besides the winner having the Larry O'Brien trophy??
Fri May 26, 2006 3:11 am
Fri May 26, 2006 5:53 am
Fri May 26, 2006 8:30 am
Fri May 26, 2006 8:35 am
Fri May 26, 2006 8:43 am
Fri May 26, 2006 8:57 am
easily. Consider that the miami heat are now in the conference finals. not to mention they didn't too shabby last year either. believe you me, miami made their money back. 20 mil for a top 3 centre in the nba (duncan, yao-shaq [debatable]? sounds good to me. You can say all you want about his stats, but everyone knows that betting your money on a team with a good big is the high percentage by far. Bigs are a rare commodity, and like anything - the rarer they get the more expensive they are. The disparity and lack of true bigs in this league relative to that of guards is mind blowing, which makes shaq even more valuable imo. Say what you want about that "fat old man," but the fact is that fat bastard is still playing right now on a contender.
exactly. yet that is all kobe has to show when it comes to his 'attractability' via free agency.
and I'd rather have a contender than a first round exit. again, funny that how out of shape, overpaid, and declining schmuck has led miami to the shit; they are practically the worst team in the nba! Oh the horror.... imagine!.... still playing late may! what was riley thinking?! what a waste of money! after all, he was only an mvp candidate last year! that slug!
yes, zo and payton are pushovers. no would want them. come on, be realistic here, they are not exactly useless - in fact they are both above average role players. Miami didn't need another star, and they couldn't afford another star with wade's upcoming contract taken into consideration. The fact that finley was even tendering an offer with miami says enough imo. that Miami, a team that is a contender yes, a champion no, competed well over finley against the spurs is not exactly a slap in the face. shaq has buying power.... duncan has more (especially with finley's personality taken into consideration) its that simple. imo, money was not what was driving finley's decision.
i don't see that plan ever being fulfilled to its potential. More likely they will end up overpaying whoever they can get.
I'm not fooling myself. Shaq was the most dominant player in the nba, and one of the greatest centres in nba history. I don't understand how that isn't a selling point. imho the fact that the main reason they came to that team was for the chance to play with shaq is pretty clear. Again, since you like articles and quotes so much and since you are a laker fan, I find it hard to believe that you have forgotten the media coverage surrounding those signings. Shaq's name probably appeared in those articles more than gp and malones. Very Happy if anything it was mandatory.
Fri May 26, 2006 8:59 am
Fri May 26, 2006 9:02 am
Fri May 26, 2006 9:10 am
Fri May 26, 2006 9:40 am
Fri May 26, 2006 10:24 am
Fri May 26, 2006 11:32 am
air gordon wrote:sorry double post but i figure it would be easier for Jae if i made a separate post for my discussion with him...
my mistake on the Lakers pick. Pick 26th, no?
but as for this contender/winner thing... please do elaborate more. now if we're just talking who has more trophies or something like that, i can understand your point. other then that, i don't follow and would like an explanation
Fri May 26, 2006 11:51 am
Being a contender and actually winning a championship are two entirely different things
Fri May 26, 2006 11:54 am
You're talking about 20 million. Which is less than the amount Buss wanted to pay Shaq. There's a difference between paying Snaq 30mil and 20 mil.
WTF? This is crazy. You need to look at the other and more important factors why free agent signings have been crap and la
1. We have Mitch Kupchak as our GM
2. The stupid 2008 plan
3. Veterans would actually sign with contenders.
Again, why put the blame on Kobe here? This is getting ridiculous. You're speculating. Im giving you facts as to why the lakers were not able to sign players to significantly improve the team.
I hope they abandon that plan as soon as Bosh signs an extension.
I have not. You probably heard about how Shaq tends to invent stories to the media right? He did it recently with wade and TNT was all over reporting it right.
Yes, Shaq was part of the reason but dont dismiss the fact that if the lakers were not in the situation that they were in the summer of 2003, Malone and GP would not have taken a paycut to play for the lakers.
Im forgetting the part where i apparently mentioned they are useless.
There you go. Neither are big name FA's and both are old enough to join the nba legends team.![]()
Fri May 26, 2006 11:55 am
You said they are two entirely different things. He asks what your reasoning is behind that comment?
He says the difference between a contender and a championship winner is the Trophy, you say it's two entirely different things. What exactly is so different.
Pretty simple question I think.
Fri May 26, 2006 11:55 am
Fri May 26, 2006 12:04 pm
Fri May 26, 2006 12:06 pm