Wade or kobe?

Riot said that Kobe is better than Wade because he won more rings.

This is an example:

Say the Raptors won 6 championships and Arujo has 6 rings. Does it mean that he is better than Wade? No, because he (Arujo) wouldn't of won the rings without the rest of the team. So what I am trying to say is even though you have more rings doesn't actually mean you are better than another player.

I don't think that's his only reason for saying Kobe is better. As far as his post directed at JohnWB, he was just pointing out the contradiction in his posts.

The difference is Kobe Bryant was the SUPERSTAR on the Lakers, meanwhile Darko just sat on the bench.

Anyways, Jae is right. I was just pointing out the contradiction in John WB's post.

its kinda funny how people are complaining about kobe taking so many shots this year and its more like the lakers are forcing him to take them. have you watched the games? most all the time they just go up court, pretend they are running the triangle, then when everything collapses just hand it to kobe. Imean, what do you expect the guy to do, hold the ball and let the shot clock expire? he isnt getting any help and lamar is like a tumor in that offense. i dont know what they are thinking down there in LA, he is not Pippen(and for some reason he thinks he can compare). do you wanna know what i would like to see? i would love to see them run kobe at the point similar to how washington does with gilbert. I love Smush but I would much rather see George in the starting lineup. Maybe at end of games move Kobe to the sg and put Smush at the pg. Well maybe that is kinda crazy so just ignore what I said. Anyways, they are not in that bad a position right now anyways. Yes they are under .500 but its not like they are losing games by 20+ every night. In the condition they are in, if they just improve a bit more and Kobe comes out of his slump then they are right in the picture. On another note (i might just be biased), i think the refs arent giving him the whistles. I have seen this guy get clobbered over and over again and get the call. I just cant help but feel that if it were Lebron(Mr. Future of NBA) or Wade (Mr. NBA Live) you would hear those calls. But as I said before, I might just be biased.

the problem is with the team.... if kobe had a decent sidekick or decent players on his team right now that helps him win games, would ppl be bashing him??? give this poor guy a break, he probably is the most bashed superstar in the whole world... ppl haven't been giving him a break since the whole rape thing started...

the problem is with the team.... if kobe had a decent sidekick

odom not good enough? what you need, shaq?

Odom and Kobe don't work well together.

That would be like having Kidd and Nash on the same team or Iverson and Arenas. They just don't work well together because they both need the ball.

And Odom sucks on defense.

no. odom's been on other teams where he's played with players who "need the ball" and did fine. but since odom has donned the lakers jersery...

the barkley-hakeem-pippen experiment is an example of players needing the ball that didnt work out. though all 3 of those were towards the downside of their career

btw i think at one point- nash, Kevin Johnson, and kidd were all on the same team

no. odom's been on other teams where he's played with players who "need the ball" and did fine. but since odom has donned the lakers jersery...

the barkley-hakeem-pippen experiment is an example of players needing the ball that didnt work out. though all 3 of those were towards the downside of their career

btw i think at one point- nash, Kevin Johnson, and kidd were all on the same team Smile

maybe you guys should give your definition of a volume shooter...

wade takes an average of over 20 shots to get 25ppg. he gets to the ft line line very often (2nd most) and shoots a respectable 44% from the field. most of this has been without the big guy in the middle

A volume shooter is a guy who shoots too much. If you look at his shooting %, as you already had, it's considerably worse than last year or even a year before. And you could make a pretty strong case that Mourning, Haslem and 'Toine make a better frontcourt than Grant, Odom and Butler. He is launching ill-advised shots, stupid 3pts and - which is getting really obvious - rather taking a shot than passing the ball. I don't believe 'unselfishness' is the still suitable term for him.

a volume shooter, to me, is someone who needs to take a lot of shots to score his points, not just someone who takes a lot of shots. going by your definition, basically every above average scorer is a volume shooter

in today's game 44% is a respectable fg% for a guard.

magius had a good reply for you:

kobe also gets a lot more of his points off jumpers compared to wade (78% kobe versus 65% wade), not to mention wade is willing to drive more often even if kobe is capable of doing it as good or better. kobe has never averaged over 6 assists per game or over 47% field goal percentage, wade has done both. i also like the fact that for a young player wade is not in love with the 3, yes he has a poor 3 point percentage but he averages less than one per game over his career and still manages to score 20+ on a better percentage than most. a point is a point.

EDIT- lol jae- give me some leeway here, i'm a little tipsy. i think i got it fixed now

Last edited by air gordon on Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Does that count as a double post

wade (in his rookie season) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 42-40

kobe (very close to his prime) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 34-48

wade with shaq
team record - 59-23

kobe with shaq
team record - 56-26

wade (in his rookie season) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 42-40

kobe (very close to his prime) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 34-48

wade with shaq
team record - 59-23

kobe with shaq
team record - 56-26

I'll still take Kobe > Wade.

Trade Odom for Gooden, Brown and Mihm for Telfair and there's a team.

Doesn't matter. Rings in no way relates to who is better

Now,That's a load of crap.

How is it a load of crap? Please explain it to me.[/quote]

I was borrowing your coment on my post to unpolitely disagree with you. I put it in Bold, so that I wouldn't have copyright problems...

Winning is the measuring stick in any league, and if one, as a player, is accountable for his teams successes (so, please no absurd comparisons, like "Darko has one ring so he is better than Wade" etc, OK?), then in my eyes he is more valuable to me, as he's a proven winner. Besides, having won in the postseason you know it all about pressure and how to deal with it: it's called poise, and winners have it, they know how to win.

How many times have players perceived as "superstars" choked mightly when they were on the brink of success? Some bring it when it counts more, others don't, or just fall short to a better team. That's why rings do play a role on how I, and many others, value players.

Seriosuly rings have nothing to do with whos better, look at VC back when he was with Toronto, when he was a serious superstar and when he used to be just amazing... he doesn't ave a ring, but Ben Wallace does... does it make Ben Wallace better than VC? No, it just means the team was better than Toronto.

I'm pretty sure a team is more likely to win a title with Ben Wallace than with Carter. Besides I'm also sure Ben is a better center than Carter.

And Odom sucks on defense.

And they want him to play the Pippen Role.
I mean he's very skilled and always brings something to the team as a facilitator\rebounder, even if he doesn't score, but he would be more effective as a third option. I think he's a nice all around player, but he sure as hell is no Pippen caliber defender. Pippen took some heat off Jordan's back on defense, alowing MJ to save some juice.
The Lakers don't have that luxury. I cannot see how it is possible that your main offensive weapon is also the one who must stay on the chest of all the speedy guards and forwards there are AND still have the energy to win games in the 4th quarter...

It means Butler got the same amount of shots he got in Miami than he did in LA, but Odom doesn't. Did the Lakers win? No.

Are they winning now? No.

Doesn't matter. Rings in no way relates to who is better.

So in short, the better player should win games but not rings? What are you trying to say? If rings "in no way relate to who is the better player" than why do the standings?

Riot owns you.

What's the saying? Individuals win games. Teams win championships.

Last edited by John WB on Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!! You said you can't judge players based on championships yet in the same post you used the standings in your agrument! Why can't you get that I was pointing out a contradiction?

Because what I was trying to relate was a top 3 players team shouldn't be in last place while at the same time said player can't win a Championship on his own.

This may have been done before but i'll do it anyway. Who is currently the better player Wade or Kobe? i personally think that Wade is the better player because of his rebounding ability and assists, those two things just push him past kobe for me, not saying that Kobe can't dish out assists or rebound because that is a big part of his game too, but Wade is just better at it.

I'm a big Miami Heat fan, but looking at it objectively, Wade has a much brighter future. He can get to the basket better than any other player in the league. Once he gets his outside shot down, he'll be unstoppable. Right now he is 2nd in FT attempts!

wade (in his rookie season) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 42-40

kobe (very close to his prime) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 34-48

wade with shaq
team record - 59-23

kobe with shaq
team record - 56-26

you forget that Lakers are in the West and never got to play the Raptors, Hawks or whoever sucked in the East, 4 times a year.

Besides, regular season is irrelvant, the Lakers ended up with a ring 3 times, Miami's 59 win team ended up with the privilege of losing to Detroit.

wade (in his rookie season) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 42-40

kobe (very close to his prime) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 34-48

wade with shaq
team record - 59-23

kobe with shaq
team record - 56-26

you forget that Lakers are in the West and never got to play the Raptors, Hawks or whoever sucked in the East, 4 times a year.

Besides, regular season is irrelvant, the Lakers ended up with a ring 3 times, Miami's 59 win team ended up with the privilege of losing to Detroit.

it's a moot point: western conference teams play eastern conference teams twice. in addition the lakers got to beat up on weak western conference teams 4 times

It was only his 3rd year in the league. You should expect him to get at least a little better each year.

Kobe is better than Wade, but Wade has played better this season, just like a lot of other swingmen.

wade (in his rookie season) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 42-40

kobe (very close to his prime) with odom, butler, grant
team record - 34-48

wade with shaq
team record - 59-23

kobe with shaq
team record - 56-26

you forget that Lakers are in the West and never got to play the Raptors, Hawks or whoever sucked in the East, 4 times a year.

Besides, regular season is irrelvant, the Lakers ended up with a ring 3 times, Miami's 59 win team ended up with the privilege of losing to Detroit.

As did Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and the glove. Who would've thought...

Currently, Kobe is better... In the coming years, I see big potentials in Wade.
Given the enough time to mature in the league, Dwyane Wade will be spectacular!
Kobe on the other hand should not only use his gifted athletic skills,
but he should also develop his on-court decision making skills...