Prince agrees to extension

[Matt]

Prince is third highest paid on Pistons, not 2nd.

Ben Wallace will get a big deal too....probably starting @12mill/yr.

This situation with the salary cap is interesting, but Joe Dumars will likely move a player or two to keep things right. I mean he got rid of Williamson to clear cap space to get Prince & Wallace, he signed Evans for 1.7mill....there are deff ways around this.

I get the feeling that once Billups resigns, then Joe will move Rasheed Wallace, which will allow Darko (who should be cheap) to step in @PF.

Yes, he's great on defense, but let's be serious he's not Ron Artest, and Ron makes $6.5M.

don't worry, Ron Artest will get a contract in the dbl figures once it's time to re-new

[Andrew]

Fairly sensible contract in an era where potential and desperation usually goes hand in hand with overpaid players, though the Pistons are still paying potential here. But I suppose Prince's continued development and the fact the Pistons have made back-to-back Finals and won it all on one of those trips makes a near $10 million per season deal affordable.

[Matt]

i bet he'd receive a larger offer on the market which the Pistons would probably match anyway....either way, it's a good deal.

[air gordon]

saying you will "bet" doesn't make your statement any more true or false

[maes]

Ultimately, if the Detroit fans are happy it was a good move, nothing is a substitute for actually watching the guy play every night.

But stat-wise, Prince isn't exceptionally good or bad on defense (no comments on his offense) according to this particular analysis:

http://www.82games.com/rosenbaum3.htm

Most of the other "defenders" did very well on this list: Wallace, Mutombo, Duncan, KG, AK47, Bowen...but TP isn't there.

But if the fans love him, they are the ones paying for the tickets, so it's a good move.

[Rip32]

I think within 2-3 years if Darko improves and Tayshaun gets to be a 19-20 ppg scorer Joe-D will ship sheed out for cap relief. Sheeds on the Downfall, meanwhile, Tay and Dee are 2 up-and-comers ready to take NBA stardom. (maybe not Darko yet but Tayshaun is ready)

[air gordon]

lol how does tayshaun end up being a 20ppg scorer?
who will trade for an old rasheed with 2yrs/26 million left on his contract?

some of you detroit fans are the lakers of the northwest

as long as billups and hamilton are on the team and unless prince turns into a dominant post player, it's unlikely for prince to be a 20pt scorer. it's almost unprecedented for one team to have 15-20ppg from the pg-sg-sf position

or the pistons easily being able to rid themselves of rasheed. no one wants sheed, his contract, or his attitude. but Joe D is such a genius, he can make the blind see, the deaf hear, and the dumb speak

[dada]

Prince is good, but $50 million good? i dont think so.

[Matt]

lol how does tayshaun end up being a 20ppg scorer?

i'm pretty sure that after the all-star break he averaged 20+ppg.

who will trade for an old rasheed with 2yrs/26 million left on his contract?

there's a man in NY called Isiah Thomas who just happens to make the worst GM decisions....i'm sure he'll be interested.

as long as billups and hamilton are on the team and unless prince turns into a dominant post player, it's unlikely for prince to be a 20pt scorer. it's almost unprecedented for one team to have 15-20ppg from the pg-sg-sf position

no one is saying all 3 will average 20ppg. all 3 getting 15ppg+ is realistic....nearly achieved last season, if not for Prince's 14.7ppg average.

or the pistons easily being able to rid themselves of rasheed. no one wants sheed, his contract, or his attitude. but Joe D is such a genius, he can make the blind see, the deaf hear, and the dumb speak

no one said it would be easy, but hell if Chris webber and his one leg can be moved than Rasheed can be too.

But stat-wise, Prince isn't exceptionally good or bad on defense (no comments on his offense) according to this particular analysis:

http://www.82games.com/rosenbaum3.htm

Most of the other "defenders" did very well on this list: Wallace, Mutombo, Duncan, KG, AK47, Bowen...but TP isn't there.

i don't like statistical analysis like this to rate player. It's very flawed and neglects factors, which realistically can't be measured.

Just look at that list, look how far Cliff Robinson is down the list. Even now he's still one of the best defenders, but statistically you can't tell. These stats don't even measure charges, turnovers forced etc.

[air gordon]

i'm pretty sure that after the all-star break he averaged 20+ppg.

better check again

there's a man in NY called Isiah Thomas who just happens to make the worst GM decisions....i'm sure he'll be interested.

don't hold your breath

as long as billups and hamilton are on the team and unless prince turns into a dominant post player, it's unlikely for prince to be a 20pt scorer. it's almost unprecedented for one team to have 15-20ppg from the pg-sg-sf position

no one is saying all 3 will average 20ppg. all 3 getting 15ppg+ is realistic....nearly achieved last season, if not for Prince's 14.7ppg average.

my point is prince will not average 20ppg as long as billups & RIP are on the team, contrary to RIP32's opinion. now if you agree with him, then i won't even bother trying to have a discussion with you homers

no one said it would be easy, but hell if Chris webber and his one leg can be moved than Rasheed can be too.

at least you can admit it won't be easy

i don't like statistical analysis like this to rate player. It's very flawed and neglects factors, which realistically can't be measured.

Just look at that list, look how far Cliff Robinson is down the list. Even now he's still one of the best defenders, but statistically you can't tell. These stats don't even measure charges, turnovers forced etc.

what is flawed?? what factors are neglected?? the lists checks out ok to me.

maybe if you made your claim 5yrs ago, your uncle cliffy reference would be legit.

[Matt]

stats aren't conclusive. For one, defense is a team game. If you have a player on your team constantly blowing assignments then it will drag down the statistical defensive rating of the rest of the players on court as they will be forced to make up for errors.

Secondly, look at those stats...Vince Carter? Paul Pierce? i don't think so. Getting a steal doesn't mean you play defense. It could be the result of your teammates forcing a bad pass which ends up in your hands. You get credited and nothing shows up for your teamate who did the hard work. Secondly a steal can be due to the incompetence of a player....eg: the ball rolling off his foot as he tries a crossover at halfcourt, or a lapse in concentration.

Stats analysis doesn't consider how you play defense either. If you force Kobe to take shots he dosn't want to (fadeaways, tight angles, under pressure etc) but still goes 10-20 your obviously a better defender than someone who lets a guy have open looks and that player goes 2-20.

Then we could look at injuries, when an injured player shoots injured he's usually contributing to missed shots more than a defender.

there's a whol lot of stuff thats stats can't account for.

[air gordon]

of course the stats aren't the end all be all of the discussion. even the author of that site says so and has a "standard error" column.

lol do you even know how to interpret the tables?

but seriously, we all know you are only doubting that analysis by rosenbaum, who is a very highly respected nba statitician- because prince doesn't show up on the top

it's not even worth having a discussion with you because of your obvious bias towards the pistons

[Matt]

let him be highly respected. Doesn't mean he's right or remotely close to it.

I have an issue with his stats, especially those that have Carter and Pierce in the top 10, not because he doesn't have Prince there. And i never said Prince is the best defender, in fact, i said quite the opposite in a thread last year...i said he was overrated defender.

it's not even worth having a discussion with you because you push bullshit on people.

[Jackal]

lol dont u know how to read tables? hes highly respected which means hes the shit hes probably from chicago too i mean cant go wrong with that lol

its not worth discussing in this thread because i am so biased and hate filled

lol

Anyways...

I don't think Prince deserves the 10 million a year, but given Dalembert got that fat ass contract, I think it's set a new standard. Damn Sam!

[Matt]

he's still making less than what i'm paying him in NBA Live (50/4)

[air gordon]

let him be highly respected. Doesn't mean he's right or remotely close to it.

I have an issue with his stats, especially those that have Carter and Pierce in the top 10, not because he doesn't have Prince there. And i never said Prince is the best defender, in fact, i said quite the opposite in a thread last year...i said he was overrated defender.
.

pierce is actually a good defender. do you watch boston games? so you have issue with 1 or 2 players out of all the players. big deal. the system is not perfect but appears to have some accuracy.

or maybe you're just in denial. duncan and the rest of the highly regarded defensive players are ranked the highest from all the fluke steals and blocks they get

it's not even worth having a discussion with you because you push bullshit on people

if you're going to stoop down to this level, at least quote it

was prince a 20PPG post all-star break? no. is it because i said so or am "biased" or am pushing bullshit? no. it's because he averaged ~17ppg

i don't mind being wrong in a discussion but this is just childish. matt- you are probably the biggest homer on this board and most of your reasoning is just talking in absolute

predictable, jackal

I don't think Prince deserves the 10 million a year, but given Dalembert got that fat ass contract, I think it's set a new standard. Damn Sam!

sets a new standard? big men have been overpaid for quite some time now

[Jackal]

You see, you just take out whatever it is you feel like taking out of a comment. If you took your brains out of your nutsack & actually used it for once, you'd realise what the setting the standard comment meant.

Dalembert = not so good, decent at best.

Prince = quite good.

Dalembert = Lots of money.

Prince = Not lots of money? Offended? Other team?

That's what it means. Given you're all into how the league works & you know best of everyone, don't you think that Dalembert's price would have some kind of effect on what Prince was asking? No? If Prince didn't ask for that, his agent did. The NBA's a business. Not because Dalembert is big, means Prince won't ask for a big contract.

He doesn't give a rats ass as to how big he is. Prince's agent knows that if folks are willing to pay Dalembert (who isn't that good) that amount of money, then they'd be willing to pay Prince (who is quite good & has quite a bit of playoff experience under his belt) around the same amount of money.

Ah yes, Air Gordon, predictable, always going the opposite of anything said by homers or just folks he has a disliking towards.

Make up your mind dipsauce, are Laker fans the biggest homers, is it Indy, is it Mafia or is it Matt? Make up your mind as I said. Anytime you get into a discussion with anyone who is a die hard fan of a certain team, you go around claiming them to be a homer. Well from all homers to your know it all-ness, shove it. Just for kicks, a big wet kiss from me to you.

[air gordon]

why it's always personnal for you, jackal? as i mentioned previously, you could leave that kind of material in my nlsc inbox or email

calling someone names doesn't further support your argument, it just shows your character

...do you know how prince's agent feels and thinks?

from the negoitiations i've seen, unless it involves superstars, most agents use the salaries of players of the same position of their client as one of the main points of negotiations

what dalembert received should not have made a direct correlation to what prince received since big men & the salaries they receive are a totally different market. i don't think it's necessary to explain why

and once again, you are mistaken- i have these discussions because i don't agree with what's being said. and if i'm using bullshit as my reasoning or as my evidence to back up my arguments, show me where. otherwise, just move right along. if anything, you should read what you said and apply it to yourself.

[Matthew]

Dalembert = not so good, decent at best.

Prince = quite good.

Dalembert = Lots of money.

Prince = Not lots of money? Offended? Other team?

As Nick already said, big men will always be overpaid. Look at the deal Eddy Curry got compared to what Artest is on. Its just a case of need. Talented big men are so rare these days that teams are willing to overpay to get one.

But one grossly overpaid player doesnt mean another one who is slightly less overpaid a good deal. Jim Mclveine's deal was less than Jon Konkacs, does that mean he was value for money?

I think he's overpaid. But hey I think that of every Superstar in the NBA

Yeah those Owners deserve the money much more than the players do

[Bang]

I think Prince could've gotten a better contract than that if he became a free agent. Dalambert was a free agent, so he probably got pretty good offers or the 76ers got very desperate with fears that he might leave, which lead to 76ers overpaying him.
He can shut down a lot of the big super guards in the NBA. Kobe and TMAC being the best examples. What other player can do that? Not many...if any... (*laughs at "accidental" reference*)
(sorry about that...for those who catched my lame reference.)

[Matthew]

The team defense of detroit shut down Kobe and Tmac. You take Ben Wallace (and rasheed for kobe) out of the equation with their help defense, and there is no one that can stop either one of them.

[Riot]

I just wanted to add this to this amazing debate: there is no stat for great defense. Steals? Don't matter. Blocks? Don't matter. There is no stat for putting a hand in the guys face and forcing a missed shot. There is no stat for denying a great player the ball in crunch time. There is no stat for forcing a great player like Iverson to back out of an iso and re-set the offense.

[Matt]

I just wanted to add this to this amazing debate: there is no stat for great defense. Steals? Don't matter. Blocks? Don't matter. There is no stat for putting a hand in the guys face and forcing a missed shot. There is no stat for denying a great player the ball in crunch time. There is no stat for forcing a great player like Iverson to back out of an iso and re-set the offense

exactly my point.

[air gordon]

great point, riot. lol thanks for making matt's point for him

as already mentioned, stats are not the end all be all of any discussion. but this little system by rosenbaum has some accuracy to it- most of the highly regarded defenders grade out on top and it's pretty sad matt can't acknowledge this

[beau_boy04]

He deserves every penny and maybe even more. Prince has contributed more than enough to the Pistons Franchise and he should have gotten a better contract.