Ray Allen... underrated or overrated?

[Bill Russell]

I was watching the 76ers/Magic game tonight... And I was thinking about how McGrady has edged himself so far from Iverson... He's in another class now... Much near Bryant than I thought so... I watched two Magic games this week... And he's playin' quite well... I'd go as far as to say he'll be my favorite player once Spree steps down, which might not take much time...

So I was caught up thinking about the great generation of shooting guards the NBA has right now... Bryant, McGrady, Iverson, Carter, Pierce... and Ray Allen.

Do you consider Allen can be mentioned in the same sentence as all those other guys?

Do you think he already made "the leap"? I think the average NBA player reachs his full potential between age 28-32, and Allen is gettin' there. I think he's 27 years old.

Do you think he'll get better? Or will he and his numbers stay put?

Do you think the Bucks can build around him?

Do you think he's overrated? Or underrated?

Once again, I'll wait for some replies to give my own opinion...

[Wall St. Peon]

Do you consider Allen can be mentioned in the same sentence as all those other guys?

Nope. He doesn't have the drive as the rest of them...cept Carter, he's probably equal with him in drive to win.

Do you think he already made "the leap"? I think the average NBA player reachs his full potential between age 28-32, and Allen is gettin' there. I think he's 27 years old.

Do you think he'll get better? Or will he and his numbers stay put?

I think he's reached his full potential. He'll be the Jeff Hornacek kinda player...good, but not great.

Do you think the Bucks can build around him?

Do you think he's overrated? Or underrated?

The Bucks need a star player to build around, and Allen isn't that anymore...maybe Dan Gadzuric? He used to be, but he lost it. He's both overrated and underrated...he's rated about right.

Shane

[Clinton]

Do you consider Allen can be mentioned in the same sentence as all those other guys?

Nope. I think of Allen as a shooter and that's it. He has all the qualities to become the new age Reggie Miller. Shoot the lights out, don't do a whole lot more.

Do you think he'll get better? Or will he and his numbers stay put?

I think he has fully reached his potential. A three point gunner. He will never be anything else.

Do you think the Bucks can build around him?

I think that is what they have been trying to do. He hasn't got the star power or a very complete game. You can't win a title with just a shooter, can you Indiana?

[Matthew]

They came pretty close in 2000 to wining it all...

As for Ray Allen I don't think he's reached his potential. He has a terrific shot, and seeing we are comparing him to Reggie, why not use Reggie as an example? After the 99 season he worked out with Ko-be in the off season and Bryant taught him how to drive the lane. And I dont know how old he was then, but he would've been older than Ray is now. And ray is an incredible athlete so he could develop good penetration skills.

[scubilete]

Do you think he's overrated? Or underrated?

Ray Allen, pure shooter with the ability of hitting shots from anywhere in the court, his technique is superv, so is his accuracy. Not underrated, not overrated. With Reggie getting older, just 2 pure shooters are left, Ray Allen & Allan Houston.

Do you consider Allen can be mentioned in the same sentence as all those other guys?

When you talk about the best SG you will think of those exciting players, those who are active, running all over, flying, etc. Ray might not be that kind but he's one of the best Shooters which is what a SG should do, those add excitement to their game let's say that's additional.

Do you think he'll get better? Or will he and his numbers stay put?

He will keep his numbers, just like Reggie did all his years or like Ray Allen or Houston are doing it.

Do you think the Bucks can build around him?

There's a problem with being one of those. You will never get an MVP since you are not that exciting, nobody likes to see just shooters now, people is looking for those who are like Kobe or T-mac running on the floor.

Reggie never got an MVP but that doesn't make him a bad SG or underrated. Indiana was not built around him neither. You can't build a team around a pure shooter. When you have that kind of player, you would need a good player in each position, like the bucks had last year. They let the big dog leave, that wasn't smart but some say kucok is playing good there.

All you can do is build a team but not around a particular player, cause he's not a player who is going to make things turn around him, like those you mentioned there. Same for the Knicks, they don't have the team built around anyone, they just have good players supporting Houston & Spree.

Pierce, I don't think he's supposed to be stated like a SG, Boston doesn't have SG so they use him like that, but he plays more like a SF than SG.

[Bill Russell]

I don't think Allen can be mentioned in the same category as those all other SGs... He's not there yet... Lacks drive, don't quite make his teammates better...

I think he's reached his full potential... Or else, his play seem to be gettin' worse...

I also think he's overrated... He was selected to the next Dream Team... Who cares? He's hardly an All-Star these days...

[scubilete]

I don't think Allen can be mentioned in the same category as those all other SGs

Of course he can't. He needs to be mentioned in the category of best shooters in the league where none of those you mentioned would qualify.

don't quite make his teammates better...

what do you want him to do to make the teammates better?, Why does anyone have to think you have to make your teammates better?, does it have any sense? If you are a player, would you like to have other responsibilities besides improving your game to help your team, now everyone has to make their teammates better. If they are bad players it's not your fault.

Everyone is saying, oh Kobe doesn't make his teammates better. Iverson doesn't make his teammates better. Carter doesn't make his teammates better. whoever who thinks that way need to understand that's not their responsibilty, they are SG, it has nothing to do with making anyone better, MJ didn't make anyone better, Jerry West didn't make anyone better, why do they have to? PG responsibilites is making their teammates better cause they deliver the ball, but shooting guards are there to shoot, right?. How can you make your teammates better when you have to shoot the ball?

I also think he's overrated... He was selected to the next Dream Team... Who cares? He's hardly an All-Star these days...

You guys have someone called Oscar Schmith, something like that. He was or is one of the best shooters in the whole world. Was he overrated when was selected to represent your national team so many times? I don't think so. I repeat, there's only 2 pure shooters in the league besides Miller. You of course can take any of them (Miller, Ray, Houston), they went for Ray Allen, there's nothing bad about it, you don't appreciate how good he's shooting, we do.

He's hardly an All-Star? no, he's a superstar. If you meant that he didn't get to the all star game, to that game the managers try to give opportunity to those who have turn their season into something special, let's take for example Brad Miller, is a good player but many think the Glen Robinson or Abdur-Rahim deserved to be there instead of him, and those are superstar. But because Brad's game has improved this year they decided to take him, plus Thomas was the manager.

[Drex]

there's only 2 pure shooters in the league besides Miller

i consider peja and wesley person pure shooters too

[scubilete]

wesley need class and peja is not US.

Mark Price & Steve Kerr won the 3 point shootout as well, but that doesn't put them in the pure shooters group. It is the technique for them to hit shots from anywhere on the court while they are not standing in the same place waiting for the ball like Kerr does or the same wesley.

[Drex]

wesley need class and "peja is not US".

mmmm, you said in the league.....

[scubilete]

Well, if you read the whole thing you'll see I'm talking about who the US can take from the league to represent them. Anyway like I said, Peja would be in that group but is not a US and I wouldn't put him over my 3 options, and Wesley is far from being there.

[Drex]

why far from beign there??
what do you consider a pure shooter??

[MaD_hAND1e]

Do you consider Allen can be mentioned in the same sentence as all those other guys?

Nope. I think of Allen as a shooter and that's it. He has all the qualities to become the new age Reggie Miller. Shoot the lights out, don't do a whole lot more.

Do you think he'll get better? Or will he and his numbers stay put?

I think he has fully reached his potential. A three point gunner. He will never be anything else.

Do you think the Bucks can build around him?

I think that is what they have been trying to do. He hasn't got the star power or a very complete game. You can't win a title with just a shooter, can you Indiana?

I don't think he can be like reggie, maybe allan houston at best, but not reggie

[Clinton]

I don't think he can be like reggie, maybe allan houston at best, but not reggie

Ray Allen is better then Houston in that he can do a little more then shoot. Ray Allen is close to Reggie as any other player in the league today.

why far from beign there??

I think scubilete means Person is far from making the US team.

[Andrew]

Wesley Person is definitely a pure shooter, he has great technique and his career average of 41.8% on three pointers (45.9% overall) is certainly respectable. However, he's not the kind of player the US should look at when assembling another Dream Team.

To get back to Tales original post (I'll go quote for quote too )...

Do you consider Allen can be mentioned in the same sentence as all those other guys?

I don't think he's of the same class, but as has already been established, he's a different kind of player. Those guys (apart from Iverson) are all swingmen, playing a different, more overall kind of game. Iverson too plays a different style of basketball, so you can't always go by the statistics. Those other guys are players you could have as your team leader, Ray Allen is "merely" a hot shooter. He can be one of your first options on offense, but he just isn't as effective as those other guys; the success of the franchise cannot and should not be placed squarely on his shoulders.

Do you think he already made "the leap"? I think the average NBA player reachs his full potential between age 28-32, and Allen is gettin' there. I think he's 27 years old.

I agree with those who have said that we have seen about the limit of Ray Allen's development. He could raise his shooting percentages, his scoring average may increase because of more minutes or by taking on more of the scoring load, but as others have already pointed out, there's only so much development that can take place with someone who is primarily a pure shooter. Allen is not one dimensional, he brings more than a nice jumpshot to the table, but he's not likely to develop his game any further...because there's nothing to further develop with his style of play.

Do you think he'll get better? Or will he and his numbers stay put?

As I said above, his points per game average and shooting percentages may rise depending on the state of his teammates, but it won't be an indication of his development as a player.

Do you think the Bucks can build around him?

Very few teams have been able to successfully build around a guard. I don't think you can build a team on a pure shooter, which is why the Bucks need a frontcourt scorer with a good overall game (a KG, a Duncan, maybe even a Shareef) if they want to be successful again. That would be the kind of player the Bucks should build their team around (though Allen would be a piece of the puzzle).

Do you think he's overrated? Or underrated?

Neither really. He's neither spurned nor given unnecessary attention. I don't think anyone makes him out to be something that he isn't.

[Matthew]

He did get alot of hype in 2001 after that impressive run in the playoffs by the bucks. He could be overated or underated... depending on what perspective you take. He is better than alot of people think but he could be better... he hasnt reached his potential imo

[Andrew]

Do you think he can improve any further without changing his style of game? Statistically speaking, his overall production probably won't get any better than it is right now.

[Matthew]

He could improve his lateral movement so he can defend one on one better, and he could work on his penetration skills. Statiscally he could take a huge leap forward if he can slash to the rim with more consistancy...

[Andrew]

He's had a fair amount of success being a shooter though...do you think he has the will to change/improve/expand his game?

[Matthew]

Depends if he's satisfied with being on the verge of becoming one the elite of the game... he could easily be top 5 in shooting gaurds in the nba if his game was just a bit more complete..

[Andrew]

That's why I doubt we'll see much change. He's always been a shooter, he's great at filling that role, and he can be a major contributor the Bucks without making any adjustments to his game. I believe that their success will come with the acquisition of a better frontcourt player, with Allen perhaps leading the team in scoring, but still not being the team's MVP (kind of like Allan Houston in NY).

[Matthew]

Maybe a few seasons of (just) missing the playoffs will motivate him?

[Andrew]

Possibly, but I guess it depends what Karl asks of him. If the Bucks are happy with him in his current role, there won't be any need for him to expand his game.

[Matthew]

Heheh I wonder if he would change his game if Karl asked him . hmm anyway...

You can never be too skilled. So if he was to improve other areas of his game, I can only see positives for the Bucks.. But its upto Ray.

[Andrew]

Exactly. And while I don't know Ray personally, I get the feeling he's content to play the same game he's been playing his entire career. He hasn't made any effort to change his game, at least I haven't read anything that suggests otherwise. I'll concede that he could become a better overall player with changes to his game, but I'm yet to be convinced that he will look to develop his game any further.