Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:37 pm
Espn.com wrote:DETROIT -- Five Indiana Pacers players and five Detroit Pistons fans were expected to be charged with assault Wednesday in a brawl that broke out on the court last month and spilled into the stands at The Palace of Auburn Hills, according to news reports.
All charges are expected to be for misdemeanor assault and battery -- except for one count of felony assault against a fan accused of throwing a chair, according to reports citing unidentified sources in Wednesday editions of the Detroit Free Press and The Detroit News and a Tuesday report on WDIV-TV.
"I'm not going to confirm anything," Oakland County Prosecutor David Gorcyca told The Associated Press on Tuesday night. He said he would not comment until 2 p.m. EST Wednesday, when he has scheduled a news conference to announce the charges.
The reports said Pacers player Jermaine O'Neal was expected to face two counts of misdemeanor assault and battery, while teammates Ron Artest, David Harrison, Stephen Jackson and Anthony Johnson were expected to face one count each.
Five fans were expected to face misdemeanor assault and battery charges, the reports said.
One fan could face a second count of assault and battery for throwing a plastic cup that sparked the brawl Nov. 19; another was also expected to face a felony assault charge on accusations that he threw a chair into the crowd, the reports said.
Assault and battery carries a maximum penalty of 93 days in jail and a fine of up to $500. Felonious assault carries up to four years' imprisonment.
The fight among spectators and players broke out near the end of the game after an on-court dispute over a foul. A fan tossed a drink at Artest, who then charged into the stands and began beating a man he thought had done it.
Gorcyca said Monday that his decision on charges would be based on videotapes of the brawl and about 1,000 pages of reports.
Two days after the brawl, NBA Commissioner David Stern issued lengthy suspensions against several players. He suspended Artest for the season, Jackson for 30 games and O'Neal for 25. Ben Wallace got six games and Johnson got five. Four players were suspended for a game apiece: Indiana's Reggie Miller and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman.
Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:51 pm
Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:59 pm
MaD_hAND1e wrote:This was expected. Does anyone know what the punishment for misdemeanor assault and battery is? Fine? Community service? Jail time?
Assault and battery carries a maximum penalty of 93 days in jail and a fine of up to $500. Felonious assault carries up to four years' imprisonment
Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:20 pm
Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:02 pm
Najira wrote:MaD_hAND1e wrote:This was expected. Does anyone know what the punishment for misdemeanor assault and battery is? Fine? Community service? Jail time?Assault and battery carries a maximum penalty of 93 days in jail and a fine of up to $500. Felonious assault carries up to four years' imprisonment
Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:27 pm
Now what? I'd love to ask them if they think it was worth it, was it worth it to "represent" and show how "gangsta" you are because some idiots are inciting you to engage in violent behavior? I'm sure they'd all give an emphatic NO and yes, that includes my homie Ron Ron.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:38 am
TheCambyManVol3 wrote:Now what? I'd love to ask them if they think it was worth it, was it worth it to "represent" and show how "gangsta" you are because some idiots are inciting you to engage in violent behavior? I'm sure they'd all give an emphatic NO and yes, that includes my homie Ron Ron.
I don't think the pacer players involved felt they were gangsta or representing in this situation. They were fighting for their survival(ok thats an exageration.. but they were physically assaulted first). If i'm walking down the street, in a strip club, playing xbox or playing basketball, if someone throws a beer at me i'm going after them. I think alot of people feel the same.
I know Stephen Jackson didnt get hit by a beer, but i understand 100% why he went up there. If I'm with a mate, and he gets assualted, and my friend goes after that guy and the guy has a group of friends about to jump him, i'm going to help my friend.
Jermaine O'neals case is the worst. He didn't go into the stands, the fans threw beer, chairs, everything at him. Sure he decked that mexican looking guy, but that guy went into the stands. The same way Fred Jones got punched for going into the stands.
I'm not sure what Anthony Johnson or Harrison did exactly.
The players may not be right in what happened, but im not going to criticise them. I would have done the exact same thing. Part of me really hopes all the players get off these crimes..
Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:19 am
Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:01 am
Riot wrote:I completely understand David Stern when he says that the players should show more control and be professionals...but does it come to the point where the fans are wrong? Throwing things on the court is COMPLETELY WRONG and it is DANGEROUS! Those fans involved in the melee can't go into the Palace ever (the arena banned them) but it wasn't the NBA that did anything about it. Why? Because the customers are always right.
I pity David Stern. It was both players and fans fault for this. But what about that dude JO clocked on the court? YOU DON'T GO ONTO THE COURT, AT ALL!!!!!!!!! Just like a player shouldn't go into the stands (in act of rage). I've seen players jump into the stands for celebration and stuff...that's all good to me because it gets the fans pumped. We love seeing our players showing emotion. But when you go into the stands to hurt a fan/fans then that is out of line. And no matter what your intentions are you don't go onto the court, no matter what.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:31 am
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:53 am
Riot wrote:Sometimes the courts take into effect a crime without thinking, a blind love crime or whatever they call it. Where you act out of blind fury, you don't get off the hook but you get a lighter sentence because the jury felt you didn't think and you acted out of extreme hate of the moment.
Something like that maybe. I forgot what it's offically called.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:58 am
Riot wrote:Sometimes the courts take into effect a crime without thinking, a blind love crime or whatever they call it. Where you act out of blind fury, you don't get off the hook but you get a lighter sentence because the jury felt you didn't think and you acted out of extreme hate of the moment.
Something like that maybe. I forgot what it's offically called.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:04 am
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:05 am
Riot wrote:Chances are if the players do go to jail it will be some special jail. Not a county jail or anything.
Atleast, I would think. Tell me if I'm wrong. But money speaks volume.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:09 am
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:15 am
Riot wrote:This one article I read it said Fred Jones wishes he would have fought back. He felt he let his pride suffer and he let his teammates down by not sticking up for himself.
What do you think about those comments? Instead of lying and saying he was smart and all that stuff, he says the opposite of what we would all say.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:58 am
Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:56 am
Jeffx wrote:Dre, you're right again as always, but IMO, fan behavior has gotten worse over the years. Some of these fools think paying for a ticket givs them the right to say and do anything. Remember the racial insults hurled at Serena Williams at Indian Wells, the trailer park trash that attacked the Royals first base coach, Celtic fans shouting 'wife-beater' at Kidd, Pacer fans calling Iverson the n-word, etc. Booing is one thing, but these jerks cross the line. Some do it with their kids right next to them. So much for being a role model.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:20 am
Strongly disagree my brother and I'll explain exactly why. If you look at the genesis of the whole situation it was because Ron Ron got hit with a cup. Not a bullet, not a maltov cocktail, not a grenade, he wasn't hosed down like brothers and sisters in the 1960's nor attacked by rabid dogs. It was a cup.
In that situation there was no imminent threat upon his life whatsoever, only a blow to the ego and the psyche. There's no doubt that I myself would be livid to say the least but common sense has to prevail when faced with adversity, the right thing to do is to immediately disperse the area and alert security so the offender can be apprehended.
Not to mention he was laying on that table straight "clownin", even to go as far as to put his hands behind his head, grab his crotch and to even pick up a nearby headset I suppose because he thought it was funny. Did those actions warrant being hit with an object? Of course not, there is no justification for that. But to run into the stands like a wild animal after being hit with something and start pounding the first dude you lay eyes on is completely irrational.
Suppose when he went into the stands he hit some little 4 year old kid by mistake? Or if he didn't strike the child, what if the child got trampled in the ruction? Or what if when Stephen ran into the stands to deliver that wild haymaker he clocked some elderly woman in the jaw when he cocked back his fist? And what if God forbid some crazy fan had a sharp object and stabbed and killed Ron during the melee? See what I mean? What good can come out of doing that?
I played team sports as a kid and understand the loyalty that teammates have for each other. I'm from the streets as well and also understand the loyalties that lie there also. But Stephen should have been running into the stands to pull his homeboy up out of there not to further escalate the situation. And what about the poor gentleman who got hit for no good reason by Ron? Is all fair in love and war?
The whole point is everything ensued following some fool getting hit by a cup, now his dumb ass is losing mad money and on top of that can't play the game he loves for the duration of the season. Ron Ron was and is still one of my top 5 favorite players, but I'm convinced that the next braincell he obtains will be his first.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:07 am
Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:39 am
Riot wrote:Let's remember, Ben Wallace pushed Artest and Artest actually backed away and didn't fight back. That took maturity right there.
This one article I read it said Fred Jones wishes he would have fought back. He felt he let his pride suffer and he let his teammates down by not sticking up for himself.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:59 pm
PONTIAC, Mich. -- Five Indiana Pacers and seven fans were charged Wednesday in the melee that broke out at the end of a nationally televised game against the Detroit Pistons last month, one of the worst brawls in U.S. sports history.
Players Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, David Harrison and Anthony Johnson were charged with one count of assault and battery. Jermaine O'Neal, a three-time NBA All-Star, was charged with two counts of assault and battery.
Five fans were charged with misdemeanor assault and battery, including Pistons star Ben Wallace's brother, David. Bryant Jackson also was charged with felony assault for throwing a chair into the fray, Oakland County prosecutor David Gorcyca said.
The misdemeanor carries up to three months in jail and a fine of up to $500, and the felony carries up to four years in prison, although Jackson could face more time because he has a prior criminal record, Gorcyca said.
Gorcyca singled out spectator John Green, who faces two assault counts and, the prosecutor said, "single-handedly incited this whole interaction between the fans and players and probably is the one that's most culpable." Green, who also has a prior criminal record, is accused of throwing a cup at Artest, splashing him and sparking the brawl.
John Ackerman and William Paulson, each facing an assault charge, also were accused of throwing a cup or liquid in players' faces. (Paulson's last name is listed as Paulson and Pawlson on the arrest warrant.)
In addition, two men were charged for walking onto the court at The Palace of Auburn Hills. Police said other fans could be charged, too.
Gorcyca said the players and fans without prior convictions would probably face probation and fines if found guilty.
Pacers chief executive Donnie Walsh said the team would not comment until the case is resolved. "In the meantime, we will continue to support our players in every possible way," he said.
James W. Burdick, Stephen Jackson's lawyer, said it was "unfair and inappropriate" to charge his client.
"The problem is this: a few crazed drunken fans who created a chaotic situation," Burdick said. "Steve responded in a way that he thought was necessary to protect himself and protect his friends."
Walter Piszczatowski, Harrison's lawyer, said: "David was acting as the peacekeeper throughout that evening. He was trying to make sure everybody was safe."
With less than a minute left in the Pacers-Pistons game Nov. 19, Artest fouled Ben Wallace from behind on a drive to the basket. Wallace responded with a hard, two-handed shove to Artest.
That sparked an initial skirmish, and Artest retreated to the scorer's table while the referees restored calm. But then Artest was hit by the cup, and he stormed into the stands, throwing punches as he climbed over seats.
Jackson joined Artest and threw punches at fans, who punched back. O'Neal and Artest also hit fans who later came onto the court.
NBA commissioner David Stern suspended Artest for the rest of the season. Jackson was banned for 30 games, O'Neal for 25, and other players received shorter suspensions. The players' union is appealing the longer suspensions, and a grievance hearing is scheduled for Thursday in New York.
The NBA had no comment other than to say it cooperated in the investigation and did not plan further discipline.
Gorcyca said the players and fans are required to surrender to authorities because arrest warrants were issued. He said some of the accused or their attorneys contacted his office about doing so.
Bryant Jackson appeared briefly in court Wednesday afternoon to sign papers related to the charges. He did not comment to reporters.
Some of the players said the case has become a distraction for the Pacers.
"Sitting on the phone with lawyers for an hour-and-a-half or two hours basically every other day, that kind of gets frustrating," Johnson said. "You've got to try to eliminate as much as possible, but it is definitely there and it is definitely a focus each and every day.
"We kind of lost our heads a little bit collectively as a unit. It's unfortunate because it's been played over and over and over again, and we're shown in a bad light. ... If we could turn back the hands of time I'm pretty sure we would handle it differently."
Jeff Foster added: "The whole thing has become such a circus. Something that no team's ever dealt with before. Everybody's just trying to put it behind themselves and just go on to playing basketball."
Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:28 pm
I think Stern cant block off fans cause their not legally part of the NBA, so he cant throw out punishments to the fans by banning them himself hes gotta let the courts decide.
Ron was very wrong, if ppl started brawls with the core reason being a paper cup flew on one person and he was called a "stupid piece of shit" well their'll be alotta fights, I mean cmon this is the kinda fight u expect to break out in a club, yeah we may go punch someone if offended by.....but when u play pro-sports and are seen around the world by like 2 billion ppl, u have a responsibility of acting with a certain form of deceny.
I mean is a paper cup even gonna hurt him?...Im sure it wouldnt hurt a new born baby ...well it might make him cry but hes not gonna go kick his mothers or fathers face.
so what Ron did was wrong, shame cause hes a good player and even has some sorta a decent vision in trying to help kids but what he did might spawn an era of "lets go punch that nerd" ballers.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:04 pm
I played team sports as a kid and understand the loyalty that teammates have for each other. I'm from the streets as well and also understand the loyalties that lie there also. But Stephen should have been running into the stands to pull his homeboy up out of there not to further escalate the situation. And what about the poor gentleman who got hit for no good reason by Ron? Is all fair in love and war?
The poor gentleman who ran onto the court with his fist cocked and walking directly to artest? The poor gentleman who's friend tried to tackle Artest? Fans going onto the court is just as bad as players in the stands, and the fans should be held AS accountable as the players in this mess.
The whole point is everything ensued following some fool getting hit by a cup, now his dumb ass is losing mad money and on top of that can't play the game he loves for the duration of the season. Ron Ron was and is still one of my top 5 favorite players, but I'm convinced that the next braincell he obtains will be his first.
I think he could do with some self control help, but I don't think he's dumb. I even half feel sorry for him considering he showed poise with ben wallace. If he retaliated to wallace, its feasable to say this whole mess wouldnt have happened.
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:20 pm
Matt, Matt, Matt, I think you've got a few things twisted. Number one, I'm referring to the guy in the glasses. The very first guy that Ron hit (choked, struck, whatever) when he first entered the stands. A gentleman who did absolutely nothing, he was innocent.
You're telling me that fans should be held just as accountable, your singing to the choir on that one. I think your misconstruing my criticism of the Pacers behavior as me giving the fans a pass. Read the posts prior to this one, probably about two or three posts above yours where I address the fans idiotic behavior. This topic is about the Pacers so therefore that's what I'm weighing in on.
Disagree, disagree, disagree. Ron is about as dumb as they come. When asked by a reporter if he thought that asking for time off to promote his album showed any character or integrity. He responded, "Integrity? Yo, I always wanted to know....What does that mean? (confused look on his face) Integrity? Yo, I wanted to ask my father what that meant because I don't know....." and the boy was dead serious.
His rookie year he went bananas and started buying everything in sight. We're talking cars for cats from QB, (Queensbridge Housing Projects in NYC, I'm from Brooklyn), had his own personal chef, stylist, barber, fashion designer, a person who's sole purpose was to give him wake up calls, etc. etc. We're talking a team of about 25 people on his payroll! What happened? He ran out of money of course, the boy only had a rookie salary. So by March of that season he ends up applying for a job at Circuit City because he was dead broke CIRCUIT CITY! Laughing
To kill it more, on the application where it said prior work experience, he writes in: NBA Player. Laughing I love Ron Ron man, much like I love all the NYC cats in the NBA like Steph, Skip, Tinsley, Odom and others. But I'm convinced that he's on some serious Mike Tyson shit when it comes to common sense. The killer of all? Appearing on the Today Show the next morning after the melee and whipping out a CD right when they were recounting the events in order to promote it! "....Yeah, it was a bad situation for everybody...That's why I feel everyone needs a little love right now, I have this CD coming out that's about love. It's not hardcore or anything, it comes out next week, go out and get that....." DUMB.