NBA 2K20 WNBA Integration Trailer

[ThePointForward]

While a lot of the trailer is spent on interviewing the WNBA players and Mike Wang, quite a few footage cuts are shown too. Something about 3 to 5 thousand animations was said, though dammit Mike, you're fast talker.

Some interestin gcamera angles too, would be cool if there were some extra tools for replays.

phpBB [video]

[Andrew]

It seems they've definitely gone to great lengths to authentically capture the league and make it distinct from the NBA gameplay. Good to see, much better than a token effort like the Euroleague teams in previous years.

[ThePointForward]

I guess having them inside the US helps a bit too. After all capturing Euroleague well is a logistical problem in the first place. Then again, WNBA is more similar to Euroleague in the sense of it being better basketball than NBA, while NBA is much more of a show. The fundamentals, discipline, tactics... All of those are playing more important role in WNBA and Euroleague. So with allegedly new style of play added I'd say they might try Euroleague again.

VC has 6 studios as of now: 3 in California, 1 in Seoul (South Korea), 1 in Shanghai (PRC) and 1 in Hungary. While keeping in mind they're doing both NBA and WWE 2K, having studios in China and Hungary might help with getting accuracy up when it comes to CBA and Euroleague.

[Andrew]

The lack of access certainly didn't help when it came to player likenesses. Brock Motum looked nothing like himself.

[Hadley88]

Can you Mod the Bodymeshes and Jerseys in 2K?

[Stildo33]

It's a neat idea. Glad they did. Great for WNBA which I fully support.

Personally, I won't play more than 1 exhibition quarter or half though. cross-overs and layups only do so much for me.

It does tell me that 2k is capable of adding more content, like more classical teams maybe, to their roster. Maybe they can take some extra revenue now and Barkley in the game. Maybe they could bring back college hoops instead too.

Love the the inclusion of the WNBA, I know some will enjoy it. 110% support as one of my friend's daughter's has a VERY high chance of actually making the WNBA someday if she keeps putting in the 1000s of hours per year she does now at only 11 years old. Already better than most of the varsity players. I also live in Indiana if that tells you anything about her abilities.

[Andrew]

I don't think college basketball is going to happen anytime soon. Too many hurdles to clear all around. It would be cool, though.

[[Hyperize]]

A couple curiosities I have; feel free to give your answers. I gave mine.

Will you be able to pit them against NBA teams vs. the CPU or online? Maybe offline, definitely not online though.
Will you be able to create a female MyPlayer? Prolly not cause the story revolves around the NBA, though I feel like adding female players to the Park might be something they'd consider.

[sticky-fingers]

Totally unrealistic, arenas are full

[Stildo33]

Totally unrealistic, arenas are full

[Andrew]

A couple curiosities I have; feel free to give your answers. I gave mine.

Will you be able to pit them against NBA teams vs. the CPU or online? Maybe offline, definitely not online though.
Will you be able to create a female MyPlayer? Prolly not cause the story revolves around the NBA, though I feel like adding female players to the Park might be something they'd consider.

I'm guessing it'll strictly be NBA vs NBA and WNBA vs WNBA, online and offline. If they do allow inter-league play, then I agree it's probably going to be an offline option only.

I reckon they'll have a WNBA MyPLAYER/MyCAREER at some point, though I'm not sure it'll be this year. They could do it how NBA Live 19 has, which is that you need to have a male player to play The League (the NBA career mode within The One, for those who are unaware), but you can create a female player for the connected modes. I imagine it's something they'll expand upon.

[[Q]]

Apparently there were some really bad memes being posted about women in the game. I suppose we went through some of that when women were announced for Live

I feel like Live did a good job integrating men and women together in pickup games

[Andrew]

It did. Unfortunately they didn't take things a step further with a season mode, leaving NBA 2K to be the first to do that.

[ThePointForward]

It just showed how toxic 2K community as whole can be. When you get bad jokes even here, Twitter is gonna be right cesspool.

Worst of all, if it draws in more women to play the game it's a big win for players as there will be more people playing. Trying to be an idiot about it will definitely be repulsive.

[sticky-fingers]

IMO, it's not a sexist or non sexist issue, even if, indeed, we can read horrible things on Internet, specially about females'sexual orientation.
But, I really dont give a shit about WNBA (or Euroleague in previous games), and Im not alone.

Most of NBA2K gamers want 2K fix the things they have to.
Not adding WNBA and wasting time on this feature, promoting a league that really few people cares, even females journalists...

phpBB [video]

[bluejaybrandon]

IMO, it's not a sexist or non sexist issue, even if, indeed, we can read horrible things on Internet, specially about females'sexual orientation.
But, I really dont give a shit about WNBA (or Euroleague in previous games), and Im not alone.

Most of NBA2K gamers want 2K fix the things they have to.
Not adding WNBA and wasting time on this feature, promoting a league that really few people cares, even females journalists...

phpBB [video]

Just because you or even “most gamers” won’t care doesn’t mean it isn’t worth it. There are likely individuals who do follow just the WNBA that may now buy the product that wouldn’t have before. This includes an entire female demographic that was previously untapped by 2k. 2k knows that with or without fixing what they already have, the same people will buy the game, but adding the WBNA adds a new stream of previously untapped revenue. I’m not a WNBA fan by any means but when it’s the only thing on, it’s better than nothing. I’ll give this mode a shot.

[ThePointForward]

I'm a fan, they play better basketball. If they managed to capture the gameplay well it's gonna be interesting.
And by that I mean similarly to Euroleague the WNBA is more technically oriented - fundamentals, tactics, discipline. NBA has some amazing physical talents that make it more of a show, but remember this when you next complain about Harden, LeBron, whoever having a travel uncalled. NBA is an amazing show, but some stuff had to go loose.

Anyway, like mentioned, this is mostly for different demographics and for the most part seems to have impacted primarily various artists - models, scans, textures, animations. They already add new male animations every year and this is not something that would seemingly take away time of other teams in some major fashion. I don't think this should impact bugfixing effort too much. Or MyLeague.

When debating this people usually said they should've spent the money differently - the problem is you still have to pay those animators and artists unless you fire them and that is something VC cannot afford - experienced artists would likely get new job fast and next year is next-gen.
And if they decided to get new programmers I did a quick estimate and for 10 new programmers could cost the company around 2 million USD the first year fairly easily.

Finally I also never got clear answers... What specific would you want instead of WNBA? Take into account it was reportedly multi-year project and seemingly is heavy on art team/s.

[sticky-fingers]

WNBA is a dying league, almost no one cares.
According to Wikipedia :

In 2015 ESPN2 televised ten regular season games, and ESPN one, for an average of 202,000 viewers. Game one of the finals telecast on ABC, drew 571,000 viewers, up from 558,000 for game 1 in 2014. Game three of the finals drew 432,000 viewers, and game five drew 583,000, both on ESPN2.
Game 1 of the 2016 WNBA Finals was broadcast on ABC and had 0.5 overnight rating (597,000 viewers), which was the best since 2010. The 5 game 2016 Finals broadcast on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2 averaged a 0.3 rating and 487,000 viewers. Average viewership in 2016 was 224,000 viewers.
2017 viewership hit an all-time low with 171,000 average regular season viewers. 2018 regular season viewership increased 35% over 2017 to 231,000.

So, putting this in the game, it's just a big waste of time and dispersal.
BTW if they wanted a new audience, 2K also could make a new game called WNBA 2K20.

[ThePointForward]

BTW if they wanted a new audience, 2K also could make a new game called WNBA 2K20.

And miss out on monetized modes? You're naive. This is about money, bringing people to the cash cow modes. Not to mention that would cost even more and take even more time from the devs.

WNBA is a dying league, almost no one cares.
According to Wikipedia :

In 2015 ESPN2 televised ten regular season games, and ESPN one, for an average of 202,000 viewers. Game one of the finals telecast on ABC, drew 571,000 viewers, up from 558,000 for game 1 in 2014. Game three of the finals drew 432,000 viewers, and game five drew 583,000, both on ESPN2.
Game 1 of the 2016 WNBA Finals was broadcast on ABC and had 0.5 overnight rating (597,000 viewers), which was the best since 2010. The 5 game 2016 Finals broadcast on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2 averaged a 0.3 rating and 487,000 viewers. Average viewership in 2016 was 224,000 viewers.
2017 viewership hit an all-time low with 171,000 average regular season viewers. 2018 regular season viewership increased 35% over 2017 to 231,000.

Meanwhile attendance is best in years, social media platforms for both players and teams have solid growth...
And you yourself quoted that there was decent growth in ratings viewership too.

I love when people call something dead while it's up for over two decades. People call Mixer dead too and it's been here for 3 years and is growing.

[bluejaybrandon]

They just started pumping money and attention into the WNBA in the last two years. NBA players have made commercials for the WNBA and even made appearances at WNBA games. There’s no doubt in my mind that it’s gaining traction.

We all know WNBA 2k20 wouldn’t sell on its own, but a minor inclusion in NBA 2k20 makes sense. Low risk, high reward. It brings new eyes to the game which in turn is more potential VC. I’m in no way saying the WNBA is a comparative product but to dismiss its ability to add potential revenue streams is naive.

[sticky-fingers]

And you yourself quoted that there was decent growth in ratings viewership too.

Decent growth ?! The audience last year in 2018 was half less than in 2015 and 16.
BTW many games moved from NBA arenas to smaller ones these last 2 years.

We all know WNBA 2k20 wouldn’t sell on its own, but a minor inclusion in NBA 2k20 makes sense. Low risk, high reward. It brings new eyes to the game which in turn is more potential VC. I’m in no way saying the WNBA is a comparative product but to dismiss its ability to add potential revenue streams is naive.

Totally agree, but you cant say that the time spent on WNBA mode could be used for improving NBA modes.

[bluejaybrandon]

And you yourself quoted that there was decent growth in ratings viewership too.

Decent growth ?! The audience last year in 2018 was half less than in 2015 and 16.
BTW many games moved from NBA arenas to smaller ones these last 2 years.

We all know WNBA 2k20 wouldn’t sell on its own, but a minor inclusion in NBA 2k20 makes sense. Low risk, high reward. It brings new eyes to the game which in turn is more potential VC. I’m in no way saying the WNBA is a comparative product but to dismiss its ability to add potential revenue streams is naive.

Totally agree, but you cant say that the time spent on WNBA mode could be used for improving NBA modes.

As someone else pointed out, improved in what way? We haven’t even seen gameplay from 2k20. We have no idea how it plays. What could be improved that would add the same level of exposure that inclusion of the WNBA brings? “Improving” MyLeague or MyTeam is not going to bring in new players, it’ll satisfy old ones. The inclusion of the WNBA is likely to bring in new fans that would have never touched 2k before. This is a business decision.

[sticky-fingers]

Which ways ?
- AI & Gameplay
- Animations
- Rosters
- Graphics
- Retro content

From the trailer, you can already say that the lighting is mostly the same, and that old gen arenas textures in low res are still there.

IMO 2K had the best sport game, and by far, in early 10's. But now, it's not even questionnable.
Perhaps really working on above-mentioned points would help.

So, wasting time to capture WNBA players animations, and scanning their face, yeah, it's annoying for me.

Do you really think that WNBA take the game to another level of exposure ?! I dont think WNBA helped a lot Live 19...

[bluejaybrandon]

They already said they worked on the movement this year which would in turn suggest animation work as well.

Rosters? 2k always starts the year with an updated roster and updates it throughout the year.

Graphics/lighting isn’t really something they can push on current consoles. They’ve tapped them out for the most part and I doubt they have a properly optimized engine at this point.

It’s not about “exposure”. It’s about additional avenues of revenue. I wholeheartedly believe that there are young girls or WNBA fanatics that picked up Live because it included the WNBA and these same people will do the same for 2k20. Those fans will then in turn hopefully buy VC and 2k profits. You’re looking at this too narrowly, just all the improvements you suggested don’t mean more sales to new customers. It means a better experience for the existing base. 2k wants new sales. You bought 2k18, 2k19, and likely will buy 2k20. They know this. Why would they cater to you when they can add the WNBA and pick up extra sales?

[bigh0rt]

I'm just here to watch sticky-fingers continue to be in well over his head.