Demo Impressions Thread

Talk about NBA Live 19 here.

Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby bongo88 on Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:48 am

Dee4Three wrote:In regards to lighting/atmosphere/and realistic loom and feel, NBA Live 19 wins in that regard, I stand by that. The court color is not perfect, I stated it was dark, but overall the graphics are more appealing and lively.


well, that's your opinion. to me, it looks exactly the same as 2k18. not sure exactly how to quantify atmosphere... realistic loom and feel... but lighting, looks like 2k18 with a dark filter placed on it. Crowd is just as dark... crowd has similar animations... court just has more reflections and differnet color scheme.
Perhaps the difference between you and me, i won't be back to this sub forum to complain every damn week. mostly because A) it looks the same. B) I dont play live (dont own a console) C) looks like live made some progress 2k18 to 2k19... that goods for competition for EA and 2k, but graphically, they just brought it even with 2k18. D) feel no need to critique this game further or bother y'all with my opinions. Screenshots speak for themselves.

I find it incredulouse that you can praise Live 19 when the arena looks almost the same as vanilla 2k18. Other than the court texture and a few more reflections. they both look so similar.
I could quote every damn sentance you posted about 2k18 lighting and it would apply to this game. Sadly, i have no desire to do that. Nor do I have any desire to stop into this sub forum the next year and harp and harp and harp about Live 19 crowds. Just not my thing. Especially for a game I do not play.


live 19 Screenshot
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source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKtCVSl0b44

2k18 unmodded screenshot
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anyways, I wont be back. Y'all enjoy the game.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby zzcoolj21 on Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:08 am

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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:31 am

Wow. The games look so different, the crowd lighting is similar, but the games look so different.

I much prefer the look from a gameplay perspective of Live 19 to 2K18 for the reasons I have already stated.

2K18 gameplay felt overall dead to me, from the crowd reactions to the way the courts looked to the washed out overall appearance. I have critiqued Live 19 in so many ways, can anybody on here honestly state that I have been biased towards Live 19? If so, please come forward.

I've streamed the game over 3 hours, and have given honest impressions (good and bad) throughout the streams and on here. Live 19 has quite a few areas it can improve on, but I have yet to find a broken gameplay mechanic like on 2K18 (defense in general). For that reason, I prefer Live 19s gameplay at the moment.

Difference between the two right now is: I couldn't play 2K18 for 5 minutes without getting completely frustrated by all the exploits and horrible AI, knowing that I could just iso and run to the hoop whenever I want. With Live 19, I have to think more and actually try and play basketball. Right now, Live 19 is far more simulation for me, so yes, I prefer Live 19 right now.

I have already given my critiques ( and will continue to) about the demo.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby RayRay_953 on Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:53 am

Curious to see if any legends will have improved CF's for Ultimate Team once the game comes out. Live 18 already had some advantages when it came to comparing some legend CF's to 2K18.

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At least EA got Bird's hair color right...
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:20 am

shinron15 wrote:Curious to see if any legends will have improved CF's for Ultimate Team once the game comes out. Live 18 already had some advantages when it came to comparing some legend CF's to 2K18.

[ Image ]
[ Image ]

At least EA got Bird's hair color right...


I'm hoping overall that the legends have more signatures as well. For example, I want Drexler shot to look like Drexler shot. I hope most don't have generic animations.

Would be cool if we got a legends pool.....
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby RayRay_953 on Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:37 am

Dee4Three wrote:
shinron15 wrote:Curious to see if any legends will have improved CF's for Ultimate Team once the game comes out. Live 18 already had some advantages when it came to comparing some legend CF's to 2K18.

[ Image ]
[ Image ]

At least EA got Bird's hair color right...


I'm hoping overall that the legends have more signatures as well. For example, I want Drexler shot to look like Drexler shot. I hope most don't have generic animations.

Would be cool if we got a legends pool.....


Based on the unlockable animations for The One, it looks like more animations for the legends have been added. So far, there's a Gary Payton jumpshot, and a Ray Allen dunk package (neither of which were in Live 18)
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:40 am

shinron15 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
shinron15 wrote:Curious to see if any legends will have improved CF's for Ultimate Team once the game comes out. Live 18 already had some advantages when it came to comparing some legend CF's to 2K18.

[ Image ]
[ Image ]

At least EA got Bird's hair color right...


I'm hoping overall that the legends have more signatures as well. For example, I want Drexler shot to look like Drexler shot. I hope most don't have generic animations.

Would be cool if we got a legends pool.....


Based on the unlockable animations for The One, it looks like more animations for the legends have been added. So far, there's a Gary Payton jumpshot, and a Ray Allen dunk package (neither of which were in Live 18)


Good to know! Thank you.

I'm uploading a gameplay video right now (highlights from a game I played against the Warriors on Superstar)
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:04 am

Played the Warriors this afternoon on Superstar... Here are the game highlights.

This is a high quality video because I got my HD60 Elgato game capture to work. Looks good!


phpBB [video]
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:02 am

Went back and played Live 16 again last night (PS4). A few observations:

1. Less input lag - When you press a button on the controller, it immediately happens on screen. With Live 19, sometimes a delay occurs
2. Graphics - I actually much prefer the Live 16 graphics. Not only do the players have more muscle (Look more like athletes), but the lighting and atmosphere overall I like more. A few of the players are a bit to bulky, but overall (And ill post screenshots later) the graphics are better in my opinion
3. The gameplay wasn't bad, but the shots on the move, and some of the animations overall were a bit choppy. NBA Live 19 has the best animations on this gen in my opinion.
4. A lot of the dunks (dunks in traffic as well) look a little better in Live 16, and that could be due to the body types/overall visual appeal of the game.

It looks like Live (as Bongo showed with his screenshots) went with a little more of a darker arena feel like 2K, but still kept some of the liveliness. However, the overall graphics look far more washed out than Live 16, and the players themselves have lost basically all muscle/definition.

I wish I could combine the graphics from Live 16 with the gameplay of Live 19, I would be in heaven. Ha!
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby [Q] on Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:23 am

I agree the animations look better than last year but the trade off is always responsiveness. Doesn't seem like you can have both in a game. Personally, I thought last year was perfect for me. The right amount of responsiveness with the right amount of realism in the animations. People complained about how "choppy" shot animations were last year. I thought they were fine and hell they even patched those and improved those during the season
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby kingpnp on Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:29 am

bongo88 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:the Celtics court itself may be an overall darker shade but it's overall more accurate, with reflections, and not washed out (it has life)


The real life celtics court has very little reflections. If you claim it is more accurate, at least glance at the real life celtics court/stadium.


Nba Live 18 Celtics -looks cartoonish.... something from the late 90s


Nba Live 19 Celtics - Court looks better. But the crowd has no reflection and is very dark.


NBA 2k18 Celtics - crowd looks same as live 19 .... I would say live 19 took 2k18 crowd and upgraded the floor. in my opinion. Actually.... 2k18 Crowd might be a tad brighter than live 19.. so, thus, live 19 crowd is darker than 2k18 crowd.


EDIT: 2k18 modded - here is my celtics court with whatever mods i have (really no idea what's in my modded folder and who made what) Just wondering what my modded celtics court looked like compared to the rest of them


EDIT2: 2k18 modded picture 2 - hmmm..... not sure who made above Celtic floor mod. I drag and drop usually. I play the jazz in franchise.... we don't make it back east too often. Anyways, here is MRK326 Celtic Floor mod.... just for reference compared to the others.


Real life Celtics Court - very bright court and very bright crowd. Hardly any reflections.


anyways, it is definitley better graphics than live 18. But it looks like they just put a dark filter over live 19. And both nba2k18 / 2k19 / live 18 / live 19 look nothing like Rea life Celtics court.

of course, raytracing will fix all that. i'll still make a post about next gen console graphics, which look like it will contain microsofts dxr (direct x raytracing framework.)
here is a link talking about the problems they are needing to solve: https://www.ea.com/seed/news/hpg-2018-keynote EDIT2 put the wrong link: https://www.ea.com/seed#news
I find nothing sarcastic about sticky - fingers. the crowds look very dark. and compared to real life celtics, neither game is anything close. If you are going to "analyze" the darkness of 2k18 crowd, then please hold live 18 and live 19 to the same darkness metric. nba live 19 crowd looks very similar to 2k18 crowd. (the nba live celtics floor looks good, even if the floor color is too dark)

Thanks for the breakdown and examples bongo. Here's the issue you and any of us may have with the lighting.

You can't look at a video camera capture or a photo of the court. You have to go to that Gym and see it for yourself. what does it look like in real life in person? What Live may be giving us is the real court as if you were there watching or playing. vs a TV Camera depiction. That would change the lighting. These courts are usually made from them visiting the actual court. not just from photos or video. So if that is the case and these courts are on point and look like the real thing if you were there. then that means they need to filter certain cameras/camera angles to look like a TV broadcast type filter.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:31 am

[Q] wrote:I agree the animations look better than last year but the trade off is always responsiveness. Doesn't seem like you can have both in a game. Personally, I thought last year was perfect for me. The right amount of responsiveness with the right amount of realism in the animations. People complained about how "choppy" shot animations were last year. I thought they were fine and hell they even patched those and improved those during the season


I feel the input lag was worse in Live 18, and the animations on the move/post were an eyesore and clunky to me. I was saying Live 16's input lag is less.

But you are the first person I have seen that preferred some aspects of last years gameplay over this one. Which, is kind of cool (honestly) because it means that Live 18 might have some staying power with some people.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby sticky-fingers on Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:47 am

kingpnp wrote: Here's the issue you and any of us may have with the lighting.

You can't look at a video camera capture or a photo of the court. You have to go to that Gym and see it for yourself. what does it look like in real life in person? What Live may be giving us is the real court as if you were there watching or playing. vs a TV Camera depiction. That would change the lighting. These courts are usually made from them visiting the actual court. not just from photos or video. So if that is the case and these courts are on point and look like the real thing if you were there. then that means they need to filter certain cameras/camera angles to look like a TV broadcast type filter.


Specially on low level of lighting, real TV cam use to render the image much brighter than in real life.
But devs (2K and EA) could easily reproduce these settings.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby RayRay_953 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:22 am

I also hope that the LUT community can give constructive feedback when it comes to the player cards instead of looking at the overalls. People complained about Bill Russell being a 92 overall (he had great attributes regardless), but completely ignored the fact that Kevin McHale had an abysmal midrange rating, and Reggie Lewis' midrange was average at best. Understandably, they complained about Olajuwon and Yao Ming's low midrange ratings.

I also hope they don't take the amount of rings won into consideration for ratings. People were in an uproar about how Lakers Shaq was initially rated lower than Magic Shaq, but said people forget the fact that O'Neal was faster and more athletic during his run with Orlando. I feel as if EA should reach out to the people who know about the legends in depth for attribute feedback.

Speaking of Ultimate Team, I noticed a picture of Jason Kidd wearing the Nets uniform was present in the archetype selection, so it's possible that prime Kidd is going to be a new legend added.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby [Q] on Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:43 am

I don't think they'll add new versions of existing legends. I think they're just using different pictures for your icon to show your progression. The first two Payton pictures are both of him in the original Sonics jersey

I do agree they should either put the actual overall rating on the card instead of some arbitrary number
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby ThaLiveKing on Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:59 am

Game play wise, I'm like 90% satisfied, I love it
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:06 am

shinron15 wrote:I also hope that the LUT community can give constructive feedback when it comes to the player cards instead of looking at the overalls. People complained about Bill Russell being a 92 overall (he had great attributes regardless), but completely ignored the fact that Kevin McHale had an abysmal midrange rating, and Reggie Lewis' midrange was average at best. Understandably, they complained about Olajuwon and Yao Ming's low midrange ratings.

I also hope they don't take the amount of rings won into consideration for ratings. People were in an uproar about how Lakers Shaq was initially rated lower than Magic Shaq, but said people forget the fact that O'Neal was faster and more athletic during his run with Orlando. I feel as if EA should reach out to the people who know about the legends in depth for attribute feedback.


Agreed.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby matmat66 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:23 pm

I may sound like a broker record but I'm still hoping that they will make legends available for off-line play and not just LUT. This is the biggest advantage of 2k over Live for me at this point.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby [Q] on Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:18 pm

More things I noticed today. Playing live events, you can see who the ball handler is targeting and who they'll pass to if they hit pass.
Off ball action actually works now. They had advertised it in Live 15 but it didn't really seem to work. You can now have push off animations and your guy actually cuts hard to try to get open.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:15 pm

I've given my impressions of the NBA Live 19 demo on Episode #260 of the NLSC Podcast, and just posted an article on the front page, but for the sake of joining in the conversation here, I'll copy my thoughts from the article.

Positives

  • There is a noticeable improvement in the look and feel of the game. Player animations look a lot better, while the game is more fluid and responsive on the sticks. Many of the awkward, outdated animations have been phased out and replaced with more realistic ones. The stiffness and heaviness that has been an issue since NBA Live 14 continues to be reduced, fortunately without compromising momentum or foot planting. Players and environments look great. Overall, to me it looks and feels a lot better than last year.
  • Animation variety has greatly improved. Again, some of the worst-looking animations from previous games seem to have been phased out, there are several more unique player animations and animation packages, and there are fewer issues with animations blending together and playing out too quickly. I noticed a couple of speedy ones, but it seems to be significantly improved.
  • Rebounding feels a lot better, from the animations when players grab boards, to the ball physics as shots hit the rim and the timing on the button. Much like the blocking in NBA Live 18, the improvements are subtle, but still noticeable and very welcome.
  • There's a bit more motion happening on offense, both with your teammates and the CPU opponents. There are some issues (which I'll cover below), but I noticed the CPU moving the ball around more, utilising hand-offs, and not just standing around all of the time.
  • Shot selection is decent for the most part, with the right players usually taking most of the shots (issues here might come down to tweaks to player ratings and tendencies). The CPU also takes more three-pointers, both contested and open, whereas they tended to drive on almost every single play in NBA Live 18. The number of points in the paint therefore feels truer to life now.
  • The stealing mechanics have been tweaked for the better, still following the same principle as last year but with seemingly fewer canned fouls. I like that we don't have to push right up into the ballhandler in the NBA Live 19 demo; a well-timed swipe when in a good defensive position can knock the ball loose. Having to battle a bit for loose balls is also a nice touch that reduces the feeling of steal attempts being a dice roll for a theft or a reach-in foul.
  • Pick & Roll Control has been altered slightly so that you don't have to keep holding down the button once the pick is set. This makes it a lot easier to make your move, since you don't have to worry about continuing to control both of the players once the screener is in place. I've wanted to see that change to the mechanic for a few years now, so I'm really pleased it's been implemented.
  • It felt as though there were fewer dunks, which made play in the paint more realistic. The post game still isn't exceedingly deep, but is decent in terms of the moves and animations that can be performed.
  • Help defense is a little better in terms of rotating, and defending the pick and roll. There's definitely room for improvement here, but I've felt a little less annoyed by the defense of my AI teammates so far.
  • The approach to The One, with a basic story and different games that serve to introduce you to many of the variations of LIVE Run and The Streets World Tour games, makes for a fresh experience. It doesn't feel like a forced tutorial, either. The overall presentation makes it stand out from MyCAREER, at least while your player is making their way to The League. I like what they've done with it.
  • Court creation is fantastic! There could stand to be some more themes, and some of the logos aren't centred properly at midcourt (especially when you decrease their size), but the functionality is very comprehensive in its debut. I like the idea of being able to unlock more artwork, and there's a bunch of logos and the like to use out of the gate, so you can start creating some really awesome courts just a few games into playing through The Rise.
  • Control over taunts, celebrations, and so forth, is a nice feature. It feels like there's more life and emotion in the game with features like that.
  • Face scanning is very easy once again and the results are impressive, even when you do a quick scan in far less than optimal lighting.
  • The online experience felt a lot smoother and less laggy than last year. In NBA Live 18, online was virtually unplayable here in Australia.
  • Overall the controls are basically the same as NBA Live 18, which allows for familiarity and consistency. This is easily preferable to making drastic changes each and every year.
  • It could be my imagination, but I thought some of the sound effects were improved in the NBA Live 19 demo, particularly the rim sounds.

Negatives

  • At times, it feels like the players I'm controlling are a step slower than the CPU, which makes lateral movement on defense a bit more sluggish than it should be.
  • The aforementioned issue is compounded by CPU teammates still being a bit hesitant to help out on defense and in particular, collapse on the paint when someone is beaten on the perimeter. They need to react a little faster.
  • I like the physicality for the most part, but bumping is a little exaggerated, and it leads to brick wall defense that the CPU is a lot better at than the user is ever capable of being. It does mean you have to be good on the sticks to break an opponent's ankles or muscle your way to the hoop - which is a good thing - but it could be toned down a little so that poorer defenders can't play lockdown defense on offensive juggernauts. In short, a little more balance is needed.
  • There are still some issues with animations playing out too quickly, i.e. the infamous "rocket" layups and dunks. It's visually jarring, and also means that there are still some cheesy moments in the paint. I'm also hoping that a few more animations can be added throughout the year for more variety, and just to make sure we're rid of all the funky outdated ones.
  • I'm not a fan of the change in commentary. Admittedly I'm not a fan of Jay Williams and his takes, and I cringed at hearing some of them in the game, but even putting that aside, both his and Ed Cohen's performance didn't sound all that good. The commentary sounded a lot drier than Mike Breen and Jeff Van Gundy, and less authentic than having the lead NBA on ESPN team in the game.
  • Blocks and steals are a bit too numerous. Sliders can remedy this, but it will need tweaking in The One and online, where we can't make those adjustments ourselves.
  • Although the NBA Live 19 demo did demonstrate improvement in terms of AI, playcalling, and the like, there are still moments where the AI breaks down and just dribbles out the shot clock before taking a bad attempt (or getting a shot clock violation). There should be a bit more movement from teammates and opponents alike. As I said, players don't stand around quite as much as before, but it's still an issue that affects strategy and realism.
  • A few players take more shots than they should, notably DeMarcus Cousins when the CPU is controlling the Warriors. Again, it might just be a case of adjusting ratings and tendencies, but there are a few oddities with the shot distribution that need to be ironed out.
  • The game currently plays better in The Streets than in the traditional NBA modes. While The One clearly is the hook for the game, NBA Live 19 does need to play a better game of NBA basketball as well, in order to provide a well-rounded experience and be a viable alternative as an NBA sim. It's vital that players and teams play like their real life counterparts, for the best sim experience possible.
  • CPU opponents have a tendency to get backcourt violations by needlessly passing to a teammate who hasn't crossed midcourt yet. On one hand, it's the kind of blooper we do see when players aren't thinking clearly, but it shouldn't be happening quite as often as it does. Ideally, if it is going to happen, it should only be when the AI is under heavy pressure in a halfcourt trap, and mostly with players who don't have a high basketball IQ.
  • The main menu is a bit jumbled and confusing, effectively hiding a lot of content that isn't related to The One. At first, I didn't realise that I was in the main menu!
  • Player measurements default to the metric system when you're in a PAL region, which is annoying from a presentation standpoint. Obviously I do use the metric system, but I always think in terms of the imperial system when it comes to basketball, and that's what shows up in NBA presentation as well. Ideally it should be a toggle option, as in NBA 2K.

Thoughts looking ahead to the full version

  • There are some key issues amongst the negatives in the NBA Live 19 demo that I do want to see addressed as much as possible in the full version, but overall, I can see myself having fun with it. I've ended up with more positives in my impressions, and in many cases, they outweigh some of the negatives I've listed (particularly those that come down to personal preference).
  • I feel like quite a few of my gripes could be fixed with patches and tuning fixes, and possibly even some ratings adjustments. The technology and the mechanics are there and they're solid; it's just a matter of fine tuning and proper balance for the best and more realistic gameplay experience possible.
  • It may be because I'm burned out on career modes, but I do believe it's crucial that NBA Live 19 delivers in terms of its NBA content. Offline 5v5 gameplay needs to be a good representation of NBA-style basketball, with a pleasing amount of realism. Franchise and Ultimate Team need to be beefed up with some essential additions and enhancements. It can't just be all about The One; otherwise, NBA Live 19 will feel a bit shallow, and not a well-rounded game. I am a bit concerned about the NBA experience moving forward, but I am hoping that that part of the game will continue to improve as well.
  • Summing up my desired improvements on the NBA side of things, I'd like to see the CPU teams running more plays, and being able to freelance if the play breaks down. Make sure the right players are scoring the most points, and that CPU teammates are doing their job. It might be worth triggering some kind of quick play if the user hasn't bothered to call anything, just to make sure that players are moving and trying to get into position. Again, I'm hoping to see some overdue additions and enhancements to Franchise and Ultimate Team.
  • The approach to player progression in The One remains fair, well-designed, and the absence of microtransactions/pay-to-win mechanics shows goodwill (and ensures more balance online). I'm still getting used to not having to upgrade all of my ratings; I'm a bit undecided on that approach, same as in NBA Live 18. I am unfortunately a bit over career modes, but I will check out The One all the same, and I do really like what's been done with it in terms of content and presentation.
  • Judging by the way NBA Live 18 improved throughout the last year, I do feel rather optimistic that as good as NBA Live 19 may be at launch, there'll be a good chance it can get even better with its post-release title updates. Overall, the NBA Live 19 demo is quite encouraging, and I've had fun with it so far.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:46 pm

I am double dipping this year: Live 16 Ultimate Team along with Live 19 Ultimate Team, both with the purpose of getting my favorite 5

Iverson
Drexler
Erving
Bird
Olajuwon

Because Live 19 isn't out yet, I started already for Live 16.

Purpose of posting this video here is: It made me REALLY miss Van Gundy and Breen (Andrew just mentioned as well that he didn't really like Jay Williams, or the commentary in general). Listen to Breen after a couple threes I made, he did the "BANG" commentary, etc. And, now that I look back, Van Gundy has quite a few decent takes in the commentary.

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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:12 am

Just hearing a couple of Jay Williams' lines about how today's players are better than ever made me want to mute the commentary, which I've never done in NBA Live or NBA 2K to date (other than for the purposes of a video feature, I guess).
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:31 am

Andrew wrote:Just hearing a couple of Jay Williams' lines about how today's players are better than ever made me want to mute the commentary, which I've never done in NBA Live or NBA 2K to date (other than for the purposes of a video feature, I guess).


His takes in my opinion feel more forced/staged than most anything Breen and Van Gundy said in prior games. And, the comments about the current NBA (Ragging on the past NBA) gets under my skin as well.

But yeah, I prefer the graphics and commentary on Live 16, so nothing wrong with double dipping into both games. The animations (Gameplay overall) in Live 16 is just not as good as Live 19, but it's functional.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:03 am

The best I can say about Jay Williams' commentary is that he gives those same terrible takes in real life as well, so at least it is realistic and his honest opinion.
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Re: Demo Impressions Thread

Postby ThaLiveKing on Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:21 pm

Andrew wrote:The best I can say about Jay Williams' commentary is that he gives those same terrible takes in real life as well, so at least it is realistic and his honest opinion.


LOL
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