Formulas

[nyflava2k9]

This is your spreadsheet in its entirety... All one page of it (not even zoomed out much)... Notice the fields it incorporates... Notice your 3pt formula in comparison to mine... It's no where near mines... I hate to even have to show your work but you have left me no other choice... I don't take false accusations lightly... Since it is up to NLSC as you say, here is further proof that you are tripping....


Now this is my spreadsheet in its entirety... All six pages of it (had to zoom out even more just to fit it to 6 screen shots.)... Notice all the extra fields it incorporates... Notice how our 3pt formulas are completely different...








You did not help me at all with the creation of my spreadsheet. Yes, I got the idea from you to make a spreadsheet but this should put to rest any notion I stole yours.

Again... Hawk23, Andrew and everyone else... I am sorry to bombard this thread with this but this was brought to me. I am simply defending myself and my reputation.

Slimm44, I didn't steal your work and you know this. If you didn't before than you should definitely now.

Case closed.

[slimm44]

I found this quote, too. Thanks for directing me to what you have said in the past, man! This was from early 2016, also.

"I'm going to start my response to you with a .... it is much deserved! I have just begun to scratch the surface on your research and I am truly blown away by the amount of detail you put into your work. Truly game changing stuff! I owe you a huge apology. Not that I was knocking your work by any stretch but I was truly not aware at how in depth you went with everything. I took an educated guess that a lot of research had to go into your work - but I am just now truly appreciating how much of an understatement that is. I now also understand that your ratings/tendencies were calculated at a certain point in the season.. Any perceived (Ok so I was totally wrong on everything lol) discrepancies as far as statistical output goes makes perfect sense. Players stats go up and down throughout the season so I now understand why some stats vary. With that being said I would love to pick your brain on how you came up with your ratings/tendencies. I now realize I'm the one who was "off" and I also realize how much more in depth this all goes. I am truly appreciative of you and your work. I admittedly a little nervous now about sending you the ratings/tendencies for the players you mentioned above lol (your work is the real life manifestation of what I thought to be a pipe dream for UBR) but I will get them to you ASAP. On second thought, please go Kobe/black mamba style on tearing my sh** to shreads lol. Your input is invaluable and will do nothing but make me/this mod better. At the very least will give me a better understanding of what I need to change, look out for, do's/don't, problems you came across etc. I tried to download your spreadsheets so I can get a better understanding of how you calculated your ratings formulas but I was unable to. If you can point me to any links/post that deal with these types of topics It would be much appreciated. I can NEVER touch your work (I hope everyone see's me saying this) but I would definitely be interested in taking a protege/helper role if you are up to schooling me on how all this works. Also, please read my response I posted to Sko above. A lot of that pertains to you as well. Much respect. I am just beginning this journey and who better to learn from than the Guru of Sim himself - You! "

First private message in April.

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Then, a short while later you had access to all of my methods. A year after that and you are doing the one thing you said you wouldn't do in the first private message you sent me...apply what you learned from me to another project.

[nyflava2k9]

But you had it all figured out before reaching out to me for tips, right?

I never reached out to you. You came on the thread saying "you would like to know how I came up with my formulas". You made first contact with me. I started my 2016 rosters in January 2016. Posed screenshots of my work. Accurate stats from the 2016 season at that point. Way more accurate than yours. I was already well on my way. I never claimed to have everything figured out. Once I realized others such as yourself also do in-depth ratings, I compared my work to that, took bits and pieces and honed my skills even further. I never shied away from this fact, always gave credit and thanked you for it. Do not make it seem as though "you made me". My ideas were original thought that happened to be thoughts of others as well. When I saw there was someone else out there like me, I was excited thinking all me and you could accomplish together. Yes, I was excited to work with you. Especially after seeing all the in-depth things you were doing to rosters. You thought along the same lines as me. Again, I have never not credited you for that. But do not act as if you made my work possible. That's total BS.

The following is my first post ever on the topic of statistical outputs, well before I even knew about your work (Page 216 of this thread )... (To add, I honestly used to just download UBR and URB and edit them to my preference for personal use. I barely even used URB before Hawk23's 3 year hiatus as I didn't understand the ratings or much else about it in general... Thats cold truth for you)

"by nyflava2k9 on 23 Jan 2016, 20:09
How did I come up with the tendencies? I'm using up to date shot charts (courtesy of vorped.com) and data collected from other sites (basketball-reference.com, realgm.com etc.). For example, Jimmy Butler has attempted the following shots this year: 200 shots at the rim, 32 from close range, 239 from mid range, and 128 from 3 point range. His tendencies I currently have as: 73 inside shots, 22 close range shots, 80 mid range shots, 55 on 3 point shots. Notice that 80 is the highest rated shot tendency because in real life he attempts more mid range shots than anything. He is rated a 73 shot tendency on inside shots because that is the second most attempted shot he takes and it is not many attempts less than he does from mid range. He has a 55 tendency rating from 3 because he attempts a good amount of less 3's than he does mid range and inside shots. He's rated a 22 shot tendency from close range (5-10 feet) because he's only attempted 32 shots from that range this year - significantly less and only about a quarter of the number of shots he's taken from mid range. I've also taken into consideration if a player drives left or right more, free throw attempts etc... Again, it goes ALOT more in depth."

The following is our first ever interaction, also on page 216. This came after my initial post and screenshots.
Sorry if my recollection is a little off as far as time in between my first post and YOU FIRST REACHING OUT TO ME... This was over 2 years ago and it's basketball video game for starters:
"Post by slimm44 on 24 Jan 2016, 09:16

nyflava2k9, the reason that some of the ratings and tendencies in URB are "off" is because I calculated them after the first 20 games of the season. Check some of the players you feel are "off" and you'll find that they are "on" when looking at that sample size.

That being said, I'd be interested to see some of the statistical ratings/tendencies for players. If you don't mind, PM me the following information for the following players:

Ratings:
Standing layup
Close Shot
Mid Shot
3pt Shot
Passing
Stealing
Blocking
Offensive Rebounding
Defensive Rebounding

Tendencies:
Take Shot
Inside Shot
Close Shot
Mid Shot
3pt Shot
Touches

Jimmy Butler
Steph Curry
Demarcus Cousins
Kevin Love
Porzingis
D'Angelo Russell
Andrew Wiggins
Lemarcus Aldridge
James Harden"

Anyone who goes to page 216 can see I started my work in January 2016. They can see our initial conversations in the forum came after my first post on the topic of statistical outputs. Although I ended up completing the 2016 roster around June 2016, I didn't even release it that year. I disappeared from NLSC from 2016 into about March of 2017. I released the 2016 roster along with my 2017 roster V1 on April 22nd, 2017. My 2017 Roster V1 didnt even have my ratings edits applied to it. Others can attest to this. The 2017 V2 with updated ratings and outputs literally has been sitting on my computer until 2 weeks ago when I returned to NLSC, spoke to Hawk23 and he released it as 2017 V2... Ask anyone on here who is familiar with UBR...

Again, I didn't even start working with you or private messaging with you until April 2017. A whole year l after from my very first announcement in January 2016 and speaking with you briefly in the forum. Again, I disappeared from NLSC without releasing my 2016 roster and and came back around March/April 2017, which is when you and I first started working together. My 2016 roster was completed at that point and I was already working on my 2017 roster...

The proof is there. The ratings are different. The spreadsheets are different. Why are you continuing with this?

Do you want me to say "Slimm44 is the best at what he does. His ideas helped me get my work on track and improve it."

There, I said it... I've said it before. Countless times...

Also claiming I only helped you with 1 or 2 seasons is laughable. I no longer have access to those spreadsheets but I definitely knocked out the whole 60s and some of the 70's. I collected every stat that could be recorded in those days. I mean what other stats are you using that we all don't know about? I applied those perfectly to your spreadsheets. It's childish of you to try to downplay my contributions. At this point you just sound bitter bro.

[nyflava2k9]

Duplicate

[nyflava2k9]

Duplicate

[nyflava2k9]

I found this quote, too. Thanks for directing me to what you have said in the past, man! This was from early 2016, also.

"I'm going to start my response to you with a .... it is much deserved! I have just begun to scratch the surface on your research and I am truly blown away by the amount of detail you put into your work. Truly game changing stuff! I owe you a huge apology. Not that I was knocking your work by any stretch but I was truly not aware at how in depth you went with everything. I took an educated guess that a lot of research had to go into your work - but I am just now truly appreciating how much of an understatement that is. I now also understand that your ratings/tendencies were calculated at a certain point in the season.. Any perceived (Ok so I was totally wrong on everything lol) discrepancies as far as statistical output goes makes perfect sense. Players stats go up and down throughout the season so I now understand why some stats vary. With that being said I would love to pick your brain on how you came up with your ratings/tendencies. I now realize I'm the one who was "off" and I also realize how much more in depth this all goes. I am truly appreciative of you and your work. I admittedly a little nervous now about sending you the ratings/tendencies for the players you mentioned above lol (your work is the real life manifestation of what I thought to be a pipe dream for UBR) but I will get them to you ASAP. On second thought, please go Kobe/black mamba style on tearing my sh** to shreads lol. Your input is invaluable and will do nothing but make me/this mod better. At the very least will give me a better understanding of what I need to change, look out for, do's/don't, problems you came across etc. I tried to download your spreadsheets so I can get a better understanding of how you calculated your ratings formulas but I was unable to. If you can point me to any links/post that deal with these types of topics It would be much appreciated. I can NEVER touch your work (I hope everyone see's me saying this) but I would definitely be interested in taking a protege/helper role if you are up to schooling me on how all this works. Also, please read my response I posted to Sko above. A lot of that pertains to you as well. Much respect. I am just beginning this journey and who better to learn from than the Guru of Sim himself - You! "

First private message in April.

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Then, a short while later you had access to all of my methods. A year after that and you are doing the one thing you said you wouldn't do in the first private message you sent me...apply what you learned from me to another project.

Bro, I was new to roster editing publicly. You were an established name I figured out once I saw all the support you had. I humbled myself in your presence. Me saying things like "I was the one who was off" was truthfully because I wanted to mend any hard feelings you might've held for tearing into your work (unbeknownst to even who you were at the time).It was great to see someone else out there, an established person, doing ratings as I was. Prior to that, I posted screen shots tearing into the fact that you had Elton Brand rated as the highest player on the Sixers in your 2016 roster with an overall rating of 72. The ratings were so off to the naked eye that it made me initially think no one cared about the ratings, it was a glitch or someone messed them up. I didn't know there was a method behind them. I didn't know who you were. I didn't know all the work you put into those ratings. Excuse me if I wanted to get back on a good foot with you after feeling like I was wrong for tearing into your work.


And what exact methods are you talking about I stole? The spreadsheet itself? The formulas? I used neither. I don't even get where you're coming from with any of this as the screenshots I posted above clearly show our ratings,formulas and spreadsheets are different. You're mad because I made my own spreadsheet? That's the only thing I really applied to my work - the concept to make a spreadsheet. It saved me time. Thats it. It didnt make my work possible.

Again,what else could I have done different? You sound utterly ridiculous right now.

[nyflava2k9]

Me: I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

We were working on 60s and 70s rosters. I was working on 2016 and 2017. I stuck to my word. I shared nothing of what you shared with me. It would be impossible to use what you shared with me to edit my rosters. Yes, your work helped breed ideas for me. But again, I have never shied away from that. You came into the picture as my work was already being completed. Your work gave me ideas and pointers. The only people who really helped me with my rosters (Not to bring anyone else into this) was Evob, Vanegame? and Truefaith (and Hawk23 for providing the base).

You really think by you showing up at the tail end of a nearly completed job, making minor intellectual contributions that I picked up from you, you think that constitutes you taking credit for my entire body of work? You think that constitutes me being a thief and deceiving you? You think that constitutes you crapping on and halting my work? After I've been nothing but respectful to you? After I helped you out when you offered me none in return?... Nah son. You wrong on this one.

If anyone wonders why I disappeared when I did without at least giving a word... wonder no longer. The lack of support and mutual respect is astounding. I'd rather just keep my work to myself.

I'm done with this..

[Buggys]

I think this beef has gone longer and farther than it should have. I have the utmost respect for slimm, but bro, nyflava2k9 just said every thing that I though of saying when I saw this issue a couple of days ago. More specifically about the fact that he never really used your exact work and that he developed his own formulas. It's a lot like when people make CFs, it was only considered stealing when modders use the texture or exact headshapes of other mods. But using those cf's as base while completely making a new work isn't. In fact, most of the works in this community wouldn't have been possible if it weren't for the tools readily available by other modders. Yet they never asked for credit for every mod that has ever been made. They also put in hours on reverse engineering the game to make it possible. What I'm saying is, if both your rosters produce different results and feel, then how is it considered the same? I'm not taking sides, I'm a nobody after all. But I think that as someone who's seeing things as they are, given that I have no emotional attachment to either work, I can clearly see that this has been blown out of proportion. The bottom line is, nyflava's work is different from yours in the end. Both your works will end up producing a different product. Different feel for the gameplay. Now suppose he did learn things from you, he still didn't copy your exact work and ended up with a different product. I don't know if I'm able to put my thoughts into words properly, but I hope you see what I'm trying to say. We know you are great, and I don't see any problem in him releasing his work if it's not exactly like yours, especially if you feel that you have a superior formula or work. I know this sounds crazy given that you are literally one of the greatest modders ever, but it just seems that you aren't confident with your work and you feel like nyflava might end up releasing a better product than you after learning from you. And regarding his message that everything would strictly be used for URB or will have your permission, I really thought he was referring to the rosters he was helping you with, ie the retro rosters. As in that the retro rosters need your approval or final say before it would get released for URB. Just like how the quality control teams would taste test the food before approving it to get mass produced. Med's already left, a lot of modders did for the lack of support or respect. I just really hope everyone that's left can just help keep this community alive and kicking. And just help each other to better the game as a whole.

[Andrew]

I'ts unfortunate that it's come to this point, and that we've also crossed the boundaries of the "No drama/public fuss" and "No posting contents of private messages" rules. That's where we're at, but please, no more of that. Let's resolve this without further incident.

The established precedent with rosters is that no one owns ratings, though outright taking someone else's roster and using it as a base without permission and credit is obviously against the rules and etiquette of the community. Generally speaking, if a ratings formula is being used by another person on a new project, then it's not that different to using any other kind of modding tutorial, technique, or freely available template to create something new. It's nice to give a shout out here, of course, but techniques and tutorials don't require credit or permission to use in the creation of a new project. Templates are sometimes a little different, but usually giving credit there is a courtesy, not a requirement. It usually depends on the person who provided the resources, and the conditions they set.

A possible exception is if ratings formulas aren't being shared publicly and openly for everyone's use. While we'd certainly encourage people to share that information, it's at their discretion as to whether they want to do so, and specific formulas can count as original work in their own right. As such, if someone absolutely doesn't want their formulas being used in other projects, then that's a request the community should honour. However, this doesn't extend to anyone else devising their own formulas based on similar techniques, or the concept of globally applied edits using spreadsheets in general. The basic approach of devising ratings formulas, using spreadsheets and whatnot aren't owned by anyone, and date back to the very early days of roster editing here at the NLSC, so there would be a lot of people to credit for that idea.

So, how does that precedent apply here?

From what I can see, nyflava2k9 isn't using any of slimm44's tangible work - that is, an actual roster file - as a base. Furthermore, it appears the plan is to use completely different formulas, though it might be fair to say that techniques learned during a previous collaboration are being used. While a shout out might be appropriate or appreciated given the circumstances, that doesn't actually count as stolen work, and no permission is required as long as the formulas are original and no roster by slimm44 is being used as a base. After all, slimm44 is within his rights to decline permission to use his formulas and any other tangible work, so it's important that that stance is respected and followed accordingly. It's a fair request given the circumstances, so slimm44's rosters and any exact formulas should be considered off-limits by anyone who hasn't received explicit permission to use them. Again, from what I can see, nyflava2k9 is actually doing the right thing by that request.

There's obviously been a falling out and ill-feeling which is unfortunate, but it is what it is. As far as where we all go from here, my stance is that slimm44 is within his rights to insist that nyflava2k9 doesn't use his formulas or any of his rosters as a base. However, it seems like nyflava2k9 is doing his own work and has come up with his own approach to the ratings, so there shouldn't be any problem. Given the past attempts at collaboration and any knowledge that may have been passed along, credit to slimm44 for certain techniques or inspiration may be an appropriate gesture of goodwill, but it's not strictly required. As long as nyflava2k9 isn't using any of slimm44's formulas, his rosters as a base, or anything like that, the rules and etiquette of the community are being followed, and there should be no issue moving forward. slimm44's request and stance is valid and reasonable, but it seems nyflava2k9 is actually honouring that request by doing his own thing, so that's what it comes down to at the end of the day.

My apologies for not stepping in and offering up some measure of a ruling earlier. I was honestly confused by the situation, so I was trying to figure out what the exact complaint was, and the nature of what was going on (also, I'm on the other side of the world). Having considered everything, I believe as long as nyflava2k9 is using his own formulas and rosters, slimm44's request is being honoured within reasonable expectations, according to the rules and etiquette of our community. It's a shame that there is some bad blood here, but hopefully we can all get past that and co-exist, both sides doing their own thing as they do so well.

[slimm44]

Thanks for weighing in, Andrew.

I sincerely doubt that Sko and I would be allowed to do anything close to this.

Happy gaming.

[nyflava2k9]

Redacted

[skoadam]

Hey copycat i see you

[skoadam]

Because im waiting week or more and it looks like i was simply ignored, i want to ask. Is it possible to get some answers, Andrew ?

[Buggys]

What do you need man? I'm still here.

[skoadam]

Because im waiting week or more and it looks like i was simply ignored, i want to ask. Is it possible to get some answers, Andrew ?

[skoadam]

I have few words about NLSC, UBR...
I will post few screens, showing true about copying/pasting things straight from URB mod into ubr without any word about this. NLSC allow nyflava to do this even after CLEAR EVIDENCES. Andrew i was really patient, i was waiting for your pms since weeks, after your last pm i decided to go public.
I have no idea about ubr modder knowledge about his "mastermind" boy is doin with his rosters, im more than sure he have no idea what is goin on with his rosters because so many users working, copying/pasting things, sending files to him to upload. Its not my problem, but would be nice to know.

Now to the evidences.

1st screen, its 2019 URB roster

2nd screen, 2019 UBR roster

3rd screen, 2018 UBR roster

4th screen, last but most important 2014 UBR roster, it can be any roster 1960-2015 from UBR mod.


So, i want to talk about coaching profiles and....playbooks IDs column. Im talking to URB users, you probably know (at least you should) that URB is using 0-14 playbooks IDs. Every single roster here is using 0-14 playbooks IDs.
Why? Because Slimm selected all good plays and created UNIQUE playbooks tab. You cant find similar solution in ANY other mod. Now, when you compare my 2019 with ubr 2019 and 2018 (and 2017 and 2016 i can assure you but you can check), do you see how not smart nyflava is? He forgot to change or he was too lazy to change it. ITS CLEAR COPY/PASTE job. Now, why i posted screen with 2014 roster. Well as you can see there, its default 2k set of Playbooks IDs (0-29), right? and guess what. All 1960-2015 ubr rosters using default playbooks ids. Who edited 2016-2019 ubr rosters? Answer is nyflava.

Its not over. Now lets look closer to coaching profiles. Well, nyflava will say, hey there is some differences. I will say, no bitch, you just copied/pasted and changed few values, its way too close, especially when you are switching between rosters. And AGAIN, look at 2014, YES! Fucking Eureka! Its default 2k coaching profiles.

Last thing...even coaches grades were copied straight from URB.

In last weeks i was pm Andrew about situation. NLSC administration see no problem with this. I see no problem with leaving NLSC.
Last thing. Last month was best way to recognize how blind all of you can be. Slimm posted CLEAR EVIDENCE of how nyflava simply stole years of his work. And what? You just ignored it and even more, you said he is wrong. You dont want to listen what two experienced and legit modders are telling you, you want to believe unknown user just because he will make ubr better. Well Slimm already deleted his account on NLSC. Now im posting next CLEAR EVIDENCES. Guess what can be my next step. I saw many rosters steals and everytime we catch modder on one lie, it ends with ban. Not here, not when we are talking about ubr. I will leave you with this, have your own brain, not lemming-like rush.

[Dee4Three]

I am going to say this, as I have more freedom as I am a contributor (not an admin) to basically say what is on my mind freely.

Skoadam, cut the shit. And I say that as a friend on here, I always got along with you. But seriously, grow up and cut the shit.

The entire premise of your project could be considered a copycat project, the entire thing. The UBR came first for 2K12, and this mod came the year after with a lot of similarities. I could give two fucks about what you chose for a name, I am talking about the project itself. I am not saying you copied, because you didn't copy exactly, and you had some of your own modders (like Slimm, Monzki) who contributed a lot of work. But, this bullshit of attacking nyflava for using some of Slimms ideas to improve the UBR, using his inspiration from Slimm to help that project, is nothing short of petty and childish. You can kick and scream all you want, you can say "I expected more out of you, Dee", you can say "HOW CAN YOU SIDE WITH THEM ON THIS!", etc. None of that matters, I've been following this from the beginning and my stance is rock solid. He drew inspiration from Slimm, he did not copy Slimm exactly, and similarities will exist between both rosters as they seek a ton of the same goals.

Nyflava actually kept the UBR alive, which Hawk based his updates on. I am disappointed in Hawk for not sticking up for Nyflava (I have no problems with stating this publicly), Hawk and I have always had a good relationship. I am disappointed that he has stayed silent outside of one outburst he made, I am disappointed that he is continually asking other people to make decisions in regards to things like faces/research etc that I believe he could do himself. This is the first he is seeing of my disappointment, and he may not give a shit (Which is his choice). But I don't like the way things have been handled since his return, either. Especially him not sticking up for Nyflava, and basically not handling conflicts himself. He should be at the forefront, as he is the leader of his project, and he should stand up for those who help him in his project.

I think you are handling this like a crybaby, I think Hawk is also not handling his side right, I think NyFlava could have noted that he took inspiration from Slimm from the start (but should be allowed to continue), etc. I also stand with Andrews handling of the situation, as I think it was a fair resolve. I think that NyFlava should be allowed to continue, I think both projects are fantastic and should be continued, and I think that both of you (Hawk and Sko) need to realize the impact these two porjects have had on thousands of people, and appreciate that. I'm not saying hold hands, or even help eachother, I am saying handle things properly, maturely, and move the fuck on.

Sko and Hawk, I love what both of you guys bring to the community. You are ELITE in what you do project wise, I've always thought that. Maintaining these projects for years is ridiculously hard work, and I appreciate it. Hawk made me fall in love with 2K14 for the PC, Sko you made me fall in love with 2K13 for PC, all because of these massive mods and the work contributed by those behind them.

Let it go, move on.

[sticky-fingers]

Copy, paste then changing values : viewtopic.php?f=225&t=103524&start=450#p1896489

Rule changed ?

[Dee4Three]

Can somebody explain to me how copy and paste can take place with what Slimm provided??

Can it literally be copy and pasted right into REDMC?

[Culture Games]

#IStandWithURB

[Dee4Three]

#IStandWithURB

No need of that.

This isn't a popularity contest, or a "I stand with" situation. I support both Sko and Hawk at the moment. I understand where Slimm and Sko are coming from, but I see Nyflava side as well. Hawk has never come out and said anything about this situation, even though the work is being used in his project/releases.

I'm starting to get a little bit more of the picture, and honestly I can see where Slimm was hurt because Nyflava didn't mention his inspiration (when he was posting screenshots of realistic sim stats). I also understand the frustration of Sko and Slimm if Nyflava copy and pasted the values in the player/team tabs (like pasted entire players attributes) and just changed a few and called it his own.

However, I was under the impression that nyflava got the spreadsheet idea from Slimm, but created his own spreadsheet and applied his own ratings to that spreadsheet.

Nyflava, is that not accurate? Or was a copy/paste job done of the newer years, and you just slightly edited them after?

Let's not start the whole #istandwithURB, or UBR, or that type if back and forth. We should be supporting both these modders afternoon getting to the bottom of it.

I want Sko around, I like Sko and his team. I also love this project, and I think it's important to keep it around for 2K13 and 2K14.

[LA Knight]

Both URB and UBR are both extremely popular mods and both have been download over 10,000 times. Deep down I think what really matters is that people are enjoying themselves and having fun playing the game.

[Culture Games]

#IStandWithURB

No need of that.

This isn't a popularity contest, or a "I stand with" situation. I support both Sko and Hawk at the moment. I understand where Slimm and Sko are coming from, but I see Nyflava side as well. Hawk has never come out and said anything about this situation, even though the work is being used in his project/releases.

I'm starting to get a little bit more of the picture, and honestly I can see where Slimm was hurt because Nyflava didn't mention his inspiration (when he was posting screenshots of realistic sim stats). I also understand the frustration of Sko and Slimm if Nyflava copy and pasted the values in the player/team tabs (like pasted entire players attributes) and just changed a few and called it his own.

However, I was under the impression that nyflava got the spreadsheet idea from Slimm, but created his own spreadsheet and applied his own ratings to that spreadsheet.

Nyflava, is that not accurate? Or was a copy/paste job done of the newer years, and you just slightly edited them after?

Let's not start the whole #istandwithURB, or UBR, or that type if back and forth. We should be supporting both these modders afternoon getting to the bottom of it.

I want Sko around, I like Sko and his team. I also love this project, and I think it's important to keep it around for 2K13 and 2K14.

It is necessary i stand with them, because they are for some reason under attack by some. They are two of the most helpful people i know and they amount of time and work theyve put into this is legendary and unfathomable, even for modding standards. ,and I stand by and support whatever sko and slimm decide. personally i trust them 100% ive gotten to know them off of NLSC as well and they are great people who really care about their work and the community.

[Erchamion]

I am going to say this, as I have more freedom as I am a contributor (not an admin) to basically say what is on my mind freely.

Skoadam, cut the shit. And I say that as a friend on here, I always got along with you. But seriously, grow up and cut the shit.

The entire premise of your project could be considered a copycat project, the entire thing. The UBR came first for 2K12, and this mod came the year after with a lot of similarities. I could give two fucks about what you chose for a name, I am talking about the project itself. I am not saying you copied, because you didn't copy exactly, and you had some of your own modders (like Slimm, Monzki) who contributed a lot of work. But, this bullshit of attacking nyflava for using some of Slimms ideas to improve the UBR, using his inspiration from Slimm to help that project, is nothing short of petty and childish. You can kick and scream all you want, you can say "I expected more out of you, Dee", you can say "HOW CAN YOU SIDE WITH THEM ON THIS!", etc. None of that matters, I've been following this from the beginning and my stance is rock solid. He drew inspiration from Slimm, he did not copy Slimm exactly, and similarities will exist between both rosters as they seek a ton of the same goals.

Nyflava actually kept the UBR alive, which Hawk based his updates on. I am disappointed in Hawk for not sticking up for Nyflava (I have no problems with stating this publicly), Hawk and I have always had a good relationship. I am disappointed that he has stayed silent outside of one outburst he made, I am disappointed that he is continually asking other people to make decisions in regards to things like faces/research etc that I believe he could do himself. This is the first he is seeing of my disappointment, and he may not give a shit (Which is his choice). But I don't like the way things have been handled since his return, either. Especially him not sticking up for Nyflava, and basically not handling conflicts himself. He should be at the forefront, as he is the leader of his project, and he should stand up for those who help him in his project.

I think you are handling this like a crybaby, I think Hawk is also not handling his side right, I think NyFlava could have noted that he took inspiration from Slimm from the start (but should be allowed to continue), etc. I also stand with Andrews handling of the situation, as I think it was a fair resolve. I think that NyFlava should be allowed to continue, I think both projects are fantastic and should be continued, and I think that both of you (Hawk and Sko) need to realize the impact these two porjects have had on thousands of people, and appreciate that. I'm not saying hold hands, or even help eachother, I am saying handle things properly, maturely, and move the fuck on.

Sko and Hawk, I love what both of you guys bring to the community. You are ELITE in what you do project wise, I've always thought that. Maintaining these projects for years is ridiculously hard work, and I appreciate it. Hawk made me fall in love with 2K14 for the PC, Sko you made me fall in love with 2K13 for PC, all because of these massive mods and the work contributed by those behind them.

Let it go, move on.

Seriously, who are you to tell a modder he's a crybaby and he has to move on when a parasite steals "HIS" hard work. I'm sick and tired of people being politically correct. Investigate and take action!

[sticky-fingers]

He's a great modder too, but he faced stolen work too.

In a perfect world, modders would release their work under CC licence. That's would avoid ego war.