Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:56 am
crawford2NYK4real wrote:i'd hate to branch off the topic but i seriously like to know: what exactly is a 'hater'? more specifically a "kobe hater"? and why are you guys calling out people for 'hating on' him?
this talk of no irrational reason/not having a good reason to "hate on" some player is confusing me.
is it no different then certain lakers fans 'hating on' their team's rivals. i.e vlade divac, chris webber, bruce bowen to name a few? or certain bryant fans disliking players who play the same position & similarly popular as he- i.e mcgrady & carter?
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:11 am
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:27 am
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:31 am
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:42 am
Mr T wrote:I sadly have to agree with you Vlade, if it wasnt for his NBA image and $$$ she would probably be gone....but who knows.
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:46 am
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:53 am
VlaDiv wrote:Jordan Rules sounds interesting. But if that stuff is in a book and we all know about it, surely Jordan's wife knows about it by now too huh? I'm not surprised vanessa bryant stick by kobe. The lifestyle she must have kobe and money, it's worth it to stay for her.
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:56 am
-|NN|-[pF]- wrote:He bought her a $4,000,000 ring...
And Kobe was stupid just to do this, but first he lied, then like 20 seconds later he admitted he did have sex. And if that chick never pressed charges Kobe would still not have told his wife about her or 'michelle'. I mean I know Kobe is 'great' and all (not to me), but what is keeping him from doing it again? Nothing. I think he knows if he gets caught again and his wife leaves him he could get almost any girl he wants. I mean I always hated Kobe as a player, but after this it is making me hate him as a person too.
Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:12 am
Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:15 am
-|NN|-[pF]- wrote:I said I am starting to hate Kobe as a person, I never said I do hate him as a person. Maybe he will change, he will realise that what he did was stupid and stop what he's doing. Kobe is still young just like Kidd was when he made his mistakes, but he has changed. And I think Kobe can change to, he just needs the right motivation.
Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:21 am
Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:26 am
-|NN|-[pF]- wrote:I can't say that he is a perfect person, yes I do think a little less of him because he really had no reason to punch her in the face. But that was a long time ago and just like he made his mistakes when he was young Kobe and other players will too. And it's not the mistakes that make me think of them as a bad person, its how they react after they made their mistakes, do they do it again? Or do they turn their lives and their careers around? And I obviously am sounding a bit defensive with this Kidd situation but to answer your question as short as possible:
I do think less of him for making that mistake.
Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:01 am
Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:36 am
Detective Winters: For how, when did that happen?
Bryant: For like 5 seconds. I said um, give me a blow job, um, and then (inaudible) kiss it (inaudible) she gave me a blow job.
Detective Loya: So the blow job lasted about 5 seconds.
Bryant: Yeah it was quick.
Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:33 pm
Dre Naismith wrote:Steve04 wrote:Dre Naismith wrote:Yes, god yes. That's what really kills me, alot of detractors HATED HIM ANYWAY and are just using this as an excuse to further their cause. I'm so mad at Kobe for giving these cats that kind of ammunition to continue their vehement attack upon him.
Am I saying that every fan who doesn't care for Kobe is a "hater"? NO. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that alot of guys have an irrational hatred towards him that can be so cruel and decidedly vicious that you have to wonder to yourself sometimes: Who is more hated? Kobe or Osama Bin Laden? Of course I'm exaggerating and being a bit fecitious but you get my point.
I agree completely. And some of the more irrational Kobe haters will probably say they hate Kobe more than Bin Laden.
I've heard guys try to come up with a cool nickname for Kobe, perhaps: "Kobin Laden"?
Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:36 pm
Jae™ wrote:
Kobe B-E-A-N Laden
Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:17 pm
Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:24 pm
Dre Naismith wrote:The Jordan Rules was more about Mike's UNBELIEVABLE SELFISHNESS. The average NBA fan of today tends to romanticize Michael Jordan because of a) his remarkable successes and b) because he created an image along with his marketing team that portrayed him to be almost a deity. Funny thing is all the criticisms that Kobe gets about his actions PALE in comparison to that of selfish Mike.
Dre Naismith wrote:The author Sam Smith does an excellent job of portraying Mike as he really was, not a hatchet job mind you, but the unadulterated truth. It is my firm belief that every NBA fan (especially those born after 1980) should read this book. You won't regret it. Just like every Kobe fan should read "Mad Game" by Roland Lazenby.
Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:03 pm
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:04 pm
Andrew wrote:I know I'm getting somewhat off the topic here, but...Dre Naismith wrote:The Jordan Rules was more about Mike's UNBELIEVABLE SELFISHNESS. The average NBA fan of today tends to romanticize Michael Jordan because of a) his remarkable successes and b) because he created an image along with his marketing team that portrayed him to be almost a deity. Funny thing is all the criticisms that Kobe gets about his actions PALE in comparison to that of selfish Mike.
I read and own a copy of the Jordan Rules, and while I'm willing to believe that behind the scenes MJ was not always easy to get along with and whatnot, it still read very much like a smear campaign.
Also consider Horace Grant's position in the book. He was unhappy with MJ's "selfishness" because he wanted a bigger role in the offense and more shots himself. Is this not also selfishness? Grant still wanted to take more shots himself, something that he was criticising MJ for.Dre Naismith wrote:The author Sam Smith does an excellent job of portraying Mike as he really was, not a hatchet job mind you, but the unadulterated truth. It is my firm belief that every NBA fan (especially those born after 1980) should read this book. You won't regret it. Just like every Kobe fan should read "Mad Game" by Roland Lazenby.
How can we be sure that he's portraying MJ as he really was? Simply because it goes against the more favourable image that was cultivated? As I said before, I don't think it's all made up or that MJ is perfect or anything like that, but seeing as Smith's intent is to "expose the real MJ" so to speak, what's stopping him from exaggerating the negative points and/or omitting other events that presented MJ more favourably?
It might be presenting another side of things, but I don't think it can be called the whole truth. When the motive is to expose and present someone in a different light, I think the truth always get somewhat distorted, if only because redeeming actions are ignored.
A lot of good things have been said about Michael Jordan, but also a lot of bad things some of which have nothing to do with basketball. There are a lot of double-standards both in his favour and against him. Consider how he was blasted for gambling in a casino while Charles Barkley makes controversial comments about violence against women without apology or remorse, spits on an eight year old fan, has numerous brushes with the law and is considered a "colourful character".
I don't think the selfishness and negative character aspects MJ is portrayed as having in The Jordan Rules are unique to him, nor is the preferred positive image that is always promoted. I would suggest that other players who didn't benefit as much from the NBA marketing machine exhibit similar qualities behind closed doors, there simply hasn't been as much written about them.
Historically, I think more people (and in particular the media) are quicker to pounce on Michael Jordan and criticise him than most players. I can understand people disliking him, even though I'm a huge fan I don't expect everyone else to share the same esteem. What bothers me is that harsh criticism of other players, like Kobe, is "hating" while harsh criticisms of Jordan are always "telling the truth", "showing intelligence" and "exposing the lies".
I guess part of my frustration is the fact that anyone who admits to being a Jordan fan is generally regarded as having blind devotion and lacking any real knowledge of the game, and I'll certainly admit that through the 90s there were certainly people who were like that. But as a Jordan fan who tries to be as impartial as possible and holds a healthy appreciation for the rest of the NBA and the players through history, it's frustrating to be considered a lesser fan or stupid simply because Michael Jordan is my favourite player.
I know I've wandered off the topic and I'm sure I've come off as being much more aggressive than I planned to, and I certainly don't mean to attack you Dre or belittle your opinion or anything like that - far from it. I just think that MJ's less endearing and less admirable qualities are slightly exaggerated in the name of ruining his image, and that "Jordan hating" seems to be justified while it's considered poor sportsmanship when directed towards other players.
I think the bottom line is, we should admire these athletes for their on-court performance, marvel at their performances and respect their ability, but when it comes to their personal lives, we should look elsewhere for role models and make our own decisions based on our own morals and principles rather than emulating the lifestyles pro athletes appear to lead.
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:11 pm
Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:06 am
Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:03 am
Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:29 am
Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:19 am
Steve04 wrote:Comparing O.J. to Kobe Bryant is rediculous.