The defense is broken - VIDEO #3 WITH SLIDER TWEAKS!

[Dee4Three]

Yeah, I've mentioned the "hater" thing several times, as well as the "why don't you go play Live" arguement. It's really silly, and sad that a large population of people mentally are like that. They don't see the big picture whatsoever, they are very... very simple minded (I know that's being pretty harsh, but it's how I feel).


Unfortunately, I fear that far more of those people exist (especially in the targeted age bracket) than people like me exist. So 2K will probably continue raking it in no matter what product they put out, unless Live or someone else becomes the "cool" or "hip" thing to play, once another game starts "trending" it could turn 2K's significance down a tad.

[RayRay_953]

I've already said how I felt about 2K18, and going back to it for a short time on PS4 was not worth it at all. It's already bad enough with the poor defense, but since I'm on the PS4, I can't do a thing about the dull and dark crowd, and that equally as dark basketball.

So 2K will probably continue raking it in no matter what product they put out, unless Live or someone else becomes the "cool" or "hip" thing to play, once another game starts "trending" it could turn 2K's significance down a tad.

I'm starting to think a majority of 2K "fans" aren't actually fans, but as you said; followers just keeping on the trend of what's considered "cool." The reason why I think of this? Many 2K Youtubers started moving towards Fortnite, not because of how the gameplay was, but because it was the most streamed game, and was the "cool" and popular thing to do. Now this might sound harsh, but people tend to do this to make themselves feel relevant and up-to-date with "today's standards." At this point, 2K will prioritize their fanbase and cater to Neighborhood and the online modes, but at the same time, they will completely ignore nearly any issues with the gameplay itself. Skating, blowing past defenders by running in a straight line, and abysmal one on one defense? "Not my problem, therefore not a problem." A glitch that allows VC to be earned at a higher rate? That's a definite no-no, and will be patched out asap.

I wish people would actually analyze problems, and look past popularity, and what's "cool", but I don't think that's going to happen at this rate.

[Andrew]

In fairness to YouTubers, they're battling an ever changing and often broken algorithm, and they're not necessarily as focused on one particular topic as a site and community like ours is. They can try different types of content, and indeed it benefits them to do so. Of course, it doesn't always lead to the best content, if the passion and knowledge isn't truly there.

[RayRay_953]

That's understandable for people who want to establish a name for themselves. My thing is that a majority of the people nowadays won't even attempt to create original content, but rather have a follow-the-leader attitude. Yes, it's for popularity gain and a viewership increase, but that doesn't necessarily mean that what they're doing/playing will be the best of quality or content. The people who spend their time to do something innovative, and at times of spectacular effort won't get nearly as much views as say, the newest silly challenge video.

Tying this in with 2K18, due to the popularity that the series has received, as well as becoming mainstream, the majority of the community will refuse to look at the flaws of the game, and will continue to play, no matter what. It's been said that their fanbase hate the NBA Live franchise, on top of basically hating every franchise not related to basketball. I'm glad they're launching an E-League esque tournament for exposure, but with the way the game is now, it's going to be a cheesy, unbalanced mess. We have addressed issues about the game, and shown video proof of said issues, but the devs won't pay attention, they only want to see positive exposure of the game. Blackmailing reviewers, forcing them to change their review score, just to maintain a positive image of themselves? It's a sad thing to see. We are better than blindly defending the "coolest" game to play, because we can see through the so-called "hype", and are willing to give other basketball games a chance. At this point, the 2K series isn't even for true basketball fans anymore, it's just for the Playground players, and you know there are people who will blindly support this game by constantly purchasing VC.

[Andrew]

I agree. It's disheartening to see 2K cosy up to big YouTubers, and those big YouTubers do the wider basketball gaming community a disservice by not pointing out the game's flaws. To be fair there are some that have, or say it without saying it by moving on to other games, but it does seem they don't want to be too critical for fear of losing perks and a working relationship with 2K. Asking that site to change their score was a very shady move indeed.

[Dee4Three]

I agree. It's disheartening to see 2K cosy up to big YouTubers, and those big YouTubers do the wider basketball gaming community a disservice by not pointing out the game's flaws. To be fair there are some that have, or say it without saying it by moving on to other games, but it does seem they don't want to be too critical for fear of losing perks and a working relationship with 2K. Asking that site to change their score was a very shady move indeed.

Bottom line, its a business above all. Regardless of what we may want to think... whatever can make them those most money (I.E Micro-Transactions) they will not only continue, but ramp up for as long as they can get away with it. Those big money generators will be the main focus, therefore the modes that produce the most money with them will generate the most focus (MyCareer, Online play). This is where gameplay, graphics, and just overall polish can take a backseat.

As Andrew pointed out, this game feels very rushed. They don't even have an intro to the game, it goes straight to the main menu. The gameplay feels like it was rushed or merely disregarded as a high priority.

[Andrew]

No doubt. And working with prominent YouTubers is good for business, a smart and effective way of promoting the game. It would just be nice if they were a little more transparent and fairer about certain things. They've gotten a little cocky, to the point where they pushed their luck with NBA 2K18.

[TheRocket]

But I think this game has gotten a bad response by people overall, it's not like 2k is focusing the most on online part of the game and thus that part of the game is really good. We know about the metacritic score, I visit reddit/2k from time to time, operation sports, and many many people don't like this game, various people complain about various things, offline people don't like it because of the issues discussed here in more than one thread, online people don't like it because of VC as a most obvious reason, but it's not like people love the game as it is and they are just annoyed by the VC greed, there are many gameplay issues people complain about, whether it is the uncontested layups being missed, blocks on the way down, too many body blocks steals etc etc, many things we as the mostly offline comunity complain about, although our list is longer because we are unhappy with the way AI plays this year and online gamers don't have to deal with it nearly as much as we do.

I think that goes to show that gameplay must be a number one thing on the priority list. If you fix the gameplay, if is solid, balanced and people like it, people will swallow some other minor issues much easier. This is a quote from a guy from Operation Sports and I agree with this 100%, he wrote it under 2k19 wishlist "Spend a year fixing the massive laundry list of bugs, legacy gameplay issues and UI errors before even thinking about anything else... "

That's what 2k needs to do, we don't need neighbourhood 2, I mean it seems to me like most of the people don't even like the neighbourhood, I think it just doesn't fit modern online gaming, seems obsolete like Jahlil Okafor in the modern NBA, people just want to play the game, look at fortnite, so easy to join the game and you can play big number of games in a small amount of time, that's what people want.

One guy on reddit asked what would 2k had to do in order for you to buy it day one, some guy wrote "a miracle". I am pretty sure I won't be buying it on the release date, I mean I will try the demo but I am not sure it is going to give enough chance to test it so much that I can see if the gameplay is improved, if the issues are fixed etc. I am not sure 2k can fix all the issues we had in one year, maybe if they focused solely on fixing the game, not adding new fancy things, but that doesn't sell the game, neighbourhoods do, but it is what 2k desparetely needs at this point

[Andrew]

There has been very vocal backlash which has included low user scores, and plenty of posts around the Internet expressing frustration and displeasure. At the same time, there have been a lot of voices defending the game and calling the criticism "hating", and a lot of the professional reviews have been positive, glossing over or completely ignoring glaring problems. There's definitely been more backlash over NBA 2K18 than I can remember for any previous NBA 2K game, though.

[Dee4Three]

But I think this game has gotten a bad response by people overall, it's not like 2k is focusing the most on online part of the game and thus that part of the game is really good. We know about the metacritic score, I visit reddit/2k from time to time, operation sports, and many many people don't like this game, various people complain about various things, offline people don't like it because of the issues discussed here in more than one thread, online people don't like it because of VC as a most obvious reason, but it's not like people love the game as it is and they are just annoyed by the VC greed, there are many gameplay issues people complain about, whether it is the uncontested layups being missed, blocks on the way down, too many body blocks steals etc etc, many things we as the mostly offline comunity complain about, although our list is longer because we are unhappy with the way AI plays this year and online gamers don't have to deal with it nearly as much as we do.

I think that goes to show that gameplay must be a number one thing on the priority list. If you fix the gameplay, if is solid, balanced and people like it, people will swallow some other minor issues much easier. This is a quote from a guy from Operation Sports and I agree with this 100%, he wrote it under 2k19 wishlist "Spend a year fixing the massive laundry list of bugs, legacy gameplay issues and UI errors before even thinking about anything else... "

That's what 2k needs to do, we don't need neighbourhood 2, I mean it seems to me like most of the people don't even like the neighbourhood, I think it just doesn't fit modern online gaming, seems obsolete like Jahlil Okafor in the modern NBA, people just want to play the game, look at fortnite, so easy to join the game and you can play big number of games in a small amount of time, that's what people want.

One guy on reddit asked what would 2k had to do in order for you to buy it day one, some guy wrote "a miracle". I am pretty sure I won't be buying it on the release date, I mean I will try the demo but I am not sure it is going to give enough chance to test it so much that I can see if the gameplay is improved, if the issues are fixed etc. I am not sure 2k can fix all the issues we had in one year, maybe if they focused solely on fixing the game, not adding new fancy things, but that doesn't sell the game, neighbourhoods do, but it is what 2k desparetely needs at this point

This is why I don't discount the reactions I see on Steam, Reddit, Metacritic, etc. Why? Because it's still the pulse, people are still taking the time to go on and express frustration about the game and company (Which includes questionable company practices). And it's not a few, it's a lot. Just like not everybody who has a positive feeling about the company and game will post, people with a negative view will also not post. Like myself, who has posted on here, but hasn't posted my frustrations anywhere else. While yes some people like the game, it seems that there is a big part of the population that has many, many issues with it.

I've said this before, I went back and looked at the comments about 2K8 through 2K14... and most of them are positive. It was actually tough finding anybody who trashed on the game, and if they did... it was a small thing here or there. Almost everybody that I saw commented made positive comments about the overall game. It's not that way anymore. It was easy to tell that back when those games were released, 2K truly cared about the basketball aspect of the game, the on court action.

You can absolutely gauge the pulse of a game by looking around on Steam, Youtube, Reddit, Metacritic, Facebook, etc. If a lot of people are complaining about the same issues, that's obviously a red flag. It means that a bulk of people are noticing the flaws, and they are being frustrated by them.

[TheRocket]

I hope people are watching Blazers Pelicans series and see what a real tough defense looks like, Holiday putting clamps down on Lillard,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e19cGbaGCPA

I hope it is going to stop that "no handcheck ergo no defense in todays nba" talk that some people in this thread have. Look at the 1 on 1on ball defense, pick and roll defense, I forgot how much I love it

[Dee4Three]

I hope people are watching Blazers Pelicans series and see what a real tough defense looks like, Holiday putting clamps down on Lillard,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e19cGbaGCPA

I hope it is going to stop that "no handcheck ergo no defense in todays nba" talk that some people in this thread have. Look at the 1 on 1on ball defense, pick and roll defense, I forgot how much I love it

Agreed, and I do believe that overall the last few years the defense has been allowed to be more hands on. While brick wall defense from 2K17 is a little much, atleast you can be stopped by the defense. As opposed to in 2K18, where you can just run by your defender. Imagine watching this video, and seeing Lillard just run by Holiday over and over for free layups.....

I mentioned it a couple pages back when Semi Ojeleye locked down Giannis in numerous plays of the second half of the C's vs Bucks game.

Holiday wasn't allowing Lillard to get comfortable, he wasn't allowing him to get where he wanted to go on the floor. Bumping your man absolutely happens, and shutting down the offensive player from getting to the hoop (By beating him to the spot) absolutely happens all the time in the NBA. The defender can't beat you to the spot and stop the drive really in NBA 2K18, because all you have to do is just run forward (Keep moving forward) to the hoop and he ends up on your hip.

Here was my Semi defense example

phpBB [video]

[sticky-fingers]

Coach' settings are the same for player and CPU. But CPU coach never changes, never adjust and default options are on manual or off.

Where's a quick video :

phpBB [video]

you had to do that before each game, because theses settings arent in an options menu.

How can this post not raise any eyebrows? It actually makes help defense fianally existent! Although I still dont like the AI on helping out, finally they will help out when you iso.

Great find, but how bad is the 2k development team when the CPU does not use ANY of the settings available. How bad is that!? I am so glad I was lucky and only spent 10 bucks on the game on ebay. They dont deserve any money for that.

i can bump too

[Dee4Three]

Coach' settings are the same for player and CPU. But CPU coach never changes, never adjust and default options are on manual or off.

Where's a quick video :

phpBB [video]

you had to do that before each game, because theses settings arent in an options menu.

How can this post not raise any eyebrows? It actually makes help defense fianally existent! Although I still dont like the AI on helping out, finally they will help out when you iso.

Great find, but how bad is the 2k development team when the CPU does not use ANY of the settings available. How bad is that!? I am so glad I was lucky and only spent 10 bucks on the game on ebay. They dont deserve any money for that.

i can bump too

I have already tried this, and it absolutely did not do anything for me. The help defense was as bad as it was before, and obviously it doesn't do anything for the horrible on ball defense (Where you can just run by your defender). The player who is playing is also just not continuing forward, he sees that other defender, so he stops, when in realty he can just continue forward.

Also, that would be a bad solution anyway, as it basically forces that other defender to leave his guy completely wide open at the top of the key or other side of the floor.

This doesn't work, but even if it did, 2K needs to do better by default. You know that as well as I do. Look at the unbelievable ridiculous defense the on ball defender is playing on that video, its silly.

[sticky-fingers]

The help defense was as bad as it was before

It's not possible.

and obviously it doesn't do anything for the horrible on ball defense

It does with the topic, help defense is broken, on ball defense too.

This tip helps a lot on help defense, whatever you can say, i'm pretty sure that C or PF will come block your "iso" tip. And it also activates double team.

But you're right it "forces that other defender to leave his guy completely wide open at the top of the key or other side of the floor" but that's what happens in real NBA.
And it doesnt fix on ball defense (only 2K could).

[Dee4Three]

We just have a different experience with it, maybe. Because I remember trying this and still just getting to the hoop easily.

And right, 2K is the only one who could fix the defensive mess as it is, sliders/settings edits don't fix it this year.

[Ovi]

Bro, i been experimenting with various sliders for the last 10 days or so, and i can tell you the game isn't as bad now, for trying to make the game play the way i want it, i think i've turned into john nash jr along the way haha

Want to stop the drives?

Lower the driving contact shot frequency, & inside contact shot frequency to below 34
tougher CPU on defense, raise the defensive consistency & defensive awareness & help defense sliders
Better Cpu on offense raise the offensive awareness to 60 or 65 and you'll see the CPU make slicing passes, no look passes,

I think the game at default is broken, and plays like a arcade game, but with little tweaking it can suit your liking, specially if you play it with offensive sets full viewing.

just my 2 cents

[sticky-fingers]

Sliders are broken, at least till 1.09

[diamenz]

Bro, i been experimenting with various sliders for the last 10 days or so, and i can tell you the game isn't as bad now, for trying to make the game play the way i want it, i think i've turned into john nash jr along the way haha

Want to stop the drives?

Lower the driving contact shot frequency, & inside contact shot frequency to below 34
tougher CPU on defense, raise the defensive consistency & defensive awareness & help defense sliders
Better Cpu on offense raise the offensive awareness to 60 or 65 and you'll see the CPU make slicing passes, no look passes,

I think the game at default is broken, and plays like a arcade game, but with little tweaking it can suit your liking, specially if you play it with offensive sets full viewing.

just my 2 cents

u do mean raise the contact shot frequency, right? or does it work differently than common sense suggests? wouldn't be surprising with 2k's track record lol.

[Ovi]

Bro, i been experimenting with various sliders for the last 10 days or so, and i can tell you the game isn't as bad now, for trying to make the game play the way i want it, i think i've turned into john nash jr along the way haha

Want to stop the drives?

Lower the driving contact shot frequency, & inside contact shot frequency to below 34
tougher CPU on defense, raise the defensive consistency & defensive awareness & help defense sliders
Better Cpu on offense raise the offensive awareness to 60 or 65 and you'll see the CPU make slicing passes, no look passes,

I think the game at default is broken, and plays like a arcade game, but with little tweaking it can suit your liking, specially if you play it with offensive sets full viewing.

just my 2 cents

u do mean raise the contact shot frequency, right? or does it work differently than common sense suggests? wouldn't be surprising with 2k's track record lol.

Yes it actually surprised me, but it does work differently than common sense,


Lower Contact Shot frequency & Lower inside shot frequency = More resistence on drives

Btw these two tabs are also linked with the Body-up sensitivity tab'

Meaning You have to also lower the body-up sensitivity below 45 as well, i found a sweet spot would be

Lower Contact shot frequency - 33 & Below
Body up-sensitivity - 40 & below

If you want to completely negate the easy drives, you can raise the "Help Defense", although that would open you up to winger 3-pointers

I'm working on some Drive & Kick Sliders to mimic the current common NBA scheme, that relies on driving and kicking to the 3-pointer, will post it when its done, its been driving me mad with all the experimenting, but i'm close

[TheRocket]

Bro, i been experimenting with various sliders for the last 10 days or so, and i can tell you the game isn't as bad now, for trying to make the game play the way i want it, i think i've turned into john nash jr along the way haha

Want to stop the drives?

Lower the driving contact shot frequency, & inside contact shot frequency to below 34
tougher CPU on defense, raise the defensive consistency & defensive awareness & help defense sliders
Better Cpu on offense raise the offensive awareness to 60 or 65 and you'll see the CPU make slicing passes, no look passes,

I think the game at default is broken, and plays like a arcade game, but with little tweaking it can suit your liking, specially if you play it with offensive sets full viewing.

just my 2 cents

u do mean raise the contact shot frequency, right? or does it work differently than common sense suggests? wouldn't be surprising with 2k's track record lol.

Yes it actually surprised me, but it does work differently than common sense,


Lower Contact Shot frequency & Lower inside shot frequency = More resistence on drives

Btw these two tabs are also linked with the Body-up sensitivity tab'

Meaning You have to also lower the body-up sensitivity below 45 as well, i found a sweet spot would be

Lower Contact shot frequency - 33 & Below
Body up-sensitivity - 40 & below

If you want to completely negate the easy drives, you can raise the "Help Defense", although that would open you up to winger 3-pointers

I'm working on some Drive & Kick Sliders to mimic the current common NBA scheme, that relies on driving and kicking to the 3-pointer, will post it when its done, its been driving me mad with all the experimenting, but i'm close

Does that fix pick and roll defense aswell?

[Ovi]

Okay i found a very good balance

Set the following for both PC & User

Body-up Sensitivity - 40

Driving Contact shot frequency - 15
Close contact shot frequency - 15

And adjust the driving & close contact shot frequency from 15 and above to your liking.

Above 15 = less resistence going to the basked on drives and below is the opposite, i hope that works

I suggested previously, that you can start all these categories at (0) and go up from there based on your preference, the issue i have is, when you completely stifle drives, you eliminate the CPU and players Like Lebron, Lillard, Greek Freak, from simulating drives


Im using

40 & 33, 33

Ill post my modified sliders in the next two days, after i've ironed out a few things here and there

[EccentricMeat]

EDIT 3: IGNORE EVERYTHING I SAID.

The settings that were working perfectly yesterday are having 0 effect on this issue today. GREAT...

HOWEVER, Ovi is on to something brilliant with his 3 settings (Body-Up set to 40, Drive/Inside Contact Shot Frequency both set to 33). After getting incredibly frustrated, I tried his settings again and WOW they did the trick. Sure, they won't stop EVERY drive to the basket, but they stop it often enough. And when they don't, it still provides great defense to contest the layup/dunk.

After plugging those 3 settings of his into my WIP slider set, I'm constantly getting stonewalled, stripped, or blocked by elite defenders and/or help defense when I force the layup.

GG Ovi. You're the man!

[fjccommish]

After a long time not playing, I checked here to see if there were any fixes or workarounds.

Ovi's solution does nothing. Using those settings, I just played All Time Bills vs Warriors. My offense was controlling the Bulls' center, isoing every time, driving to the basket every time.

Gilmore: 48 points on 16 - 36 shooting

Noah: 20 points on 8-20 shooting.

There were some rebounds and other shots by other players before I could call for the ball.

This issue is the equivalent of NBA Live Basketball Jesus. How this game went on with such a game breaking issue is unbelievable.

[Dee4Three]

Yes, the on ball defense has obviously not been fixed.

I think even worse than that is the skating. I've actually realized that the skating bothers me equally or more. It's sloppy, it looks unrealistic, it hurts the physics of the game.

Glad 2K18 is out in a few months, in the meantime Ill keep playing 2K17.