Lakers Thread

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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Wed May 24, 2017 1:48 am

I think the noticeable difference between Wiggins and Ingram is that one has a high bball IQ while the other doesn't. Wiggins is physically gifted, he's 6'8" w/ 7' wingspan with athletic build. But his lack of understanding and low IQ limits his game. He was supposed to be a defensive monster by now but he is a big hole in the system. Not surprising his blk and stl numbers are miserable despite overpowering physique. He also sucks at making right plays, look at that 1 to 1 assist-TO ratio. That's just not an acceptable number. 16.8 PER also suggests he's slightly above average even with all that usage and big role. It's cool that he's still scoring and has improved in 3pt range, but he really needs to smarten up his game or will always be an underachiever.

Contrarily Ingram seems to be a smart player. Based on eye test, he seems to make right plays and understand the game better. Defense is nice, passing is good, shot selections are good. But then his darn broken shot is concerning. He can't make wide open jumpers, he can't shoot freethrows. That's bad for a player who was touted as a shooter in college. His undeveloped body also seems to be an issue. Finishing around the rim is just way too challenging. This negates his otherwise excellent drive in ability.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed May 24, 2017 2:50 am

Fair points on Wiggins. Waiting on the rest of game to catch up with his physical skills. May not happen with the passing

A little premature to knock on ingram's lack of strength. My concern/question is what skill will he be excelling at. It's a positive to see him improve or at least show flashes towards the end of he season. I'd feel more confident in him tapping into that potential doing it in meaningful games.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Wed May 24, 2017 3:33 am

Wiggins is a gifted scorer, but beyond that he offers nothing. I've watched a lot of Wiggins, and he hurts the offense because he is not a playmaker. He isn't getting anybody else good looks, and on defense he gets pushed around. I thought his defense would have picked up by now in his career, but he may just never be a good defender.

He averaged 2.3 APG this season, which is a career high. Avery Bradley can get away with having low assists number a bit more because he is a lockdown defender (Yes, I can compare the two, both SG's who also can play SF, and Bradley averaged 17 PPG this season).

Ingram had a great opportunity to gain experience in his rookie year (28.8 MPG), and averaged almost double figures. I actually had good seats to a Celtics game when they played the Lakers in Boston, and I saw Ingram up close (He had a good game). We all know he has to get stronger, but I'd like to see him improve his handles as well. Many times he would get caught picking up his dribble when he didn't need to, and while he has a decent spin move, he wasn't getting by anybody with his dribble. Most of his shots came from a Laker penetrating and kicking, or him catching and utilization a quick first step burst. And Christ, his legs look like they could snap at any moment, he has the skinniest legs in the league.

Potential wise, I see Ingram possibly hitting Rudy Gay status offensively (Ceiling), and defensively... the sky is the limit. His length is insane, and he has a high basketball IQ.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Wed May 24, 2017 6:59 am

NovU wrote:But then his darn broken shot is concerning. He can't make wide open jumpers, he can't shoot freethrows. That's bad for a player who was touted as a shooter in college. His undeveloped body also seems to be an issue. Finishing around the rim is just way too challenging. This negates his otherwise excellent drive in ability.


I partially disagree with this. His mechanics are all over the place right now, that part I agree with. Don't know what kind of player he was touted as but it's not something that can't be fix I think. He just needs to work on it. He'll put on weight, he's 19. Finishing around the rim was an issue at the start of the season. After all star break the kid was balling though. He's got amazing defensive instincts for someone his age I feel, he's capable of initiating the offense (which he did a lot during the course of the year) and he's an unselfish player which to me is extremely important. He doesn't suffer from that Clarkson-vision. The kid looks to make the right play whenever possible.

phpBB [video]


The video above is a highlight video so obviously everything looks good but he's got quite a few finishes around the rim. He's learned to take the contact and tries to finish through it now. Putting on some weight should only help in that regard.

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


Those two are two of my favorites as well. Especially the second one where he shows emotion, like Stu said during the broadcast, he's usually so stoic it's nice to see.

For what it's worth Ingram credits Magic with his improvement around the rim. Also he intends to work with Kobe this offseason. He's instantly become my favorite player on this team and I really hope he becomes one of the best in the league.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed May 24, 2017 3:31 pm

okok point taken about wiggins lack of playmaking lol. i brought him up as reference to being a scorer. someone you can depend to score a bucket late

and stop bringing up cetics into the discussion. bradley can get away with low assist numbers because that's his role. IT dominates the ball and horford is the secondary distributor. the offense would crap out if bradley was asked to dribble around and make plays for his teammates lol

so with all these tools, what is the player comparison for ingram??? im seeing some greak freak there using his length to get to basket.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Thu May 25, 2017 12:21 am

air gordon wrote:okok point taken about wiggins lack of playmaking lol. i brought him up as reference to being a scorer. someone you can depend to score a bucket late

and stop bringing up cetics into the discussion. bradley can get away with low assist numbers because that's his role. IT dominates the ball and horford is the secondary distributor. the offense would crap out if bradley was asked to dribble around and make plays for his teammates lol

so with all these tools, what is the player comparison for ingram??? im seeing some greak freak there using his length to get to basket.


Bradleys assist numbers have always been low, before IT and since IT. And I brought up Bradley as an almost 20 point scorer as a comparison, not because he's a Celtic. Also, I will bring up whatever I want in this discussion, Air Gordon, so your "Stop" does nothing.

And even though you bypassed my comparison, I still say offensively his ceiling is Rudy Gay (as a scorer), and defensively the sky is the limit. He does not have the athletic gifts even close to the Greek Freak, and I'm not sure he will ever get there. Just because someone has long arms and the ability to get to the hoop sometimes, doesn't make it a comparison. They are completely different types of players, I don't believe they will turn out similar at all.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu May 25, 2017 1:10 am

Ok Bradley has low assist numbers. Do you think that has to do with his skills or lack of skills as a playmaker? My apologies I don't mean to tread on your forum liberties ;)

I had nothing to add to your gay comparison. Thanks for offering your opinion

I mentioned Greek freak in reference to Ingram using long strides and full extension on those drive dunks shown on the highlight reel shared by jackal. I wasn't boxing him as him being the only player he will project
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Thu May 25, 2017 1:15 am

air gordon wrote:Ok Bradley has low assist numbers. Do you think that has to do with his skills or lack of skills as a playmaker? My apologies I don't mean to tread on your forum liberties ;)

I had nothing to add to your gay comparison. Thanks for offering your opinion

I mentioned Greek freak in reference to Ingram using long strides and full extension on those drive dunks shown on the highlight reel shared by jackal. I wasn't boxing him as him being the only player he will project


No worries. And Bradley is not a good playmaker, just like Wiggins, in fact that's one of the things that's always bothered me about him (he has trouble making plays for his teammates, even with a high usage rate in certain games). My comparison had to do with the fact that Bradley makes up for that deficiency on the defensive end, and Wiggins does not.

And that's fair in regards to the Greek Freak.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Thu May 25, 2017 9:31 pm

air gordon wrote:so with all these tools, what is the player comparison for ingram??? im seeing some greak freak there using his length to get to basket.

I'd say KD ultra lite if there is anything like that. But minus the shooting and massive 7' frame.


Everything about this kid still depends how well he develops shooting. This guy was picked so high largely because of shooting potential(above 40% from 3pt range in college) but turns out he's so shit, he barely makes little over 60% freethrows. That's terrible.

He has no real strength to cover shooting weakness to be a playable player in this league for most teams. Everything starts from shooting. Lane will opens up. Defenders will close up and stick.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Thu May 25, 2017 10:36 pm

phpBB [video]


Ingram in the back already working on his form this off-season.

He has no real strength to cover shooting weakness to be a playable player in this league for most teams. Everything starts from shooting.


Tell that to MKG. In all seriousness though, his shot needs work but he's no Darius Miles. He's going to be serviceable player at the least.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri May 26, 2017 11:08 pm

NovU wrote:
air gordon wrote:so with all these tools, what is the player comparison for ingram??? im seeing some greak freak there using his length to get to basket.

I'd say KD ultra lite if there is anything like that. But minus the shooting and massive 7' frame.


Everything about this kid still depends how well he develops shooting. This guy was picked so high largely because of shooting potential(above 40% from 3pt range in college) but turns out he's so shit, he barely makes little over 60% freethrows. That's terrible.

He has no real strength to cover shooting weakness to be a playable player in this league for most teams. Everything starts from shooting. Lane will opens up. Defenders will close up and stick.

at least someone is replying to comparison question.

what is a KD ultra light if you don't have the prerequisite shooting? can you have the iso scoring mentality if you can't pour it in from the perimeter?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat May 27, 2017 12:21 am

at least someone is replying to comparison question.


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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat May 27, 2017 5:06 am

c'mon. i know you are better than that. be a good example to the forum. if you have an axe to grind with me because of a prior discussion, i'm sorry but just move on

if novu, jackal, and i can be butt buddies so should you.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sat May 27, 2017 5:20 am

(Y)
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Sat May 27, 2017 8:57 am

air gordon wrote:can you have the iso scoring mentality if you can't pour it in from the perimeter?

I don't think you can.

As you can see from vid, Ingram was a respected shooter in college, defenders guarded him only a foot away and bought his fakes and moves, which opens up other opportunities as well.

phpBB [video]


Some sort of consistency in his shooting should earn him more respect from defenders. It's funny though what seemed to be his strength is turning out to be weakness to overcome. But still, payoff could be great as other aspect of his game has been looking good.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Sat May 27, 2017 10:03 pm

I didn't answer the comparison because I think we covered that one already. I think he's similar to Otto Port Jr., Otto didn't have a shot coming out either.

I do think Ingram will/should be a more complete player but I haven't watched Port on a consistent basis to say what he can and can't do. From the 2 (?) games LA played against them he seemed to be a pretty decent 3&D type of guy.

I don't know what I hope Ingram to be. It won't be KD, they don't have a similar style of play, people just say it because of their body types. Hopefully can be the next Ingram and become a cornerstone for the franchise.

Does a Ball - Russell - Ingram - Randle - Black line up work? Will there be enough spacing on the court besides Russel's streaky shooting nights?

What happens if George decides to join LA next off season? He's gone out of his way to say he doesn't want to play the 4. Is Ball more of a 2?
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun May 28, 2017 5:25 am

Jackal wrote:I didn't answer the comparison because I think we covered that one already. I think he's similar to Otto Port Jr., Otto didn't have a shot coming out either.

I do think Ingram will/should be a more complete player but I haven't watched Port on a consistent basis to say what he can and can't do. From the 2 (?) games LA played against them he seemed to be a pretty decent 3&D type of guy.

I don't know what I hope Ingram to be. It won't be KD, they don't have a similar style of play, people just say it because of their body types. Hopefully can be the next Ingram and become a cornerstone for the franchise.

fair enough. i thought we were talking about acceptable floors and the Otto man came up. tbh i didn't pay much attention to ingram when i caught the lakers games. more so on russell, randle, clarkson.

Does a Ball - Russell - Ingram - Randle - Black line up work? Will there be enough spacing on the court besides Russel's streaky shooting nights?

What happens if George decides to join LA next off season? He's gone out of his way to say he doesn't want to play the 4. Is Ball more of a 2?

regarding George, that is a good question. wouldn't want to stunt the franchise's growth.

are you guys (lakers fans) paying attention to fox and smith jr or are you all in on Ball?? i would personally would not want to have the hometown pressure even being a factor, nevermind the lavar situation.

novu wrote:.

you'd have to think the shooting will come around. year 2 i'm expecting big leap
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby I Hate Mondays on Sun May 28, 2017 6:14 am

It's fun hitting a random number between 1 and 137 and going to that page to read whatever was happening at that point with the Lakers franchise. This thread and the Chicago Bulls thread are gold mines.


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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby NovU on Sun May 28, 2017 4:57 pm

I Hate Mondays wrote:This thread and the Chicago Bulls thread are gold mines.


[ Image ]

Then we should consider the Heat thread a diamond mine.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby I Hate Mondays on Sun May 28, 2017 10:32 pm

NovU wrote:
I Hate Mondays wrote:This thread and the Chicago Bulls thread are gold mines.


[ Image ]

Then we should consider the Heat thread a diamond mine.


Forgot to mention it, yup, that too.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Sun May 28, 2017 11:06 pm

air gordon wrote:fair enough. i thought we were talking about acceptable floors and the Otto man came up. tbh i didn't pay much attention to ingram when i caught the lakers games. more so on russell, randle, clarkson.


You're right, it was about acceptable floors. My bad. None the less that's who he reminds me of currently. From what I saw of Porter he seemed to be the lanky defensive guy who was not played much because he had no shot and now he's doing all right since getting his shot down. That's Ingram but with better ball handling skills. Then again Washington has Wall and Beal so I have no idea how good Otto's ball handling/offense initiation is. I know Walton lets Ingram initiate the offense though.

are you guys (lakers fans) paying attention to fox and smith jr or are you all in on Ball?? i would personally would not want to have the hometown pressure even being a factor, nevermind the lavar situation.

I'm pretty much only expecting Ball. I'm sure LA will work out the other guys but the fact Laker guys (Magic, Worthy, Shaq to a lesser extent) are pretty high on him coupled with the fact the kid really, really wants to be a Laker makes me think he's on top of their big board for the moment. I'm not getting all hyped though; scouting videos and fan videos made me think Okafor was the second coming of Tim Duncan so not falling for the whole Ball = Magic/Kidd incarnate this time around. Whoever they draft, I hope they do well.

I do hope George finds his way to the Lakers, it's nice a guy actually wants to play for the Lakers.

It's fun hitting a random number between 1 and 137 and going to that page to read whatever was happening at that point with the Lakers franchise. This thread and the Chicago Bulls thread are gold mines.

We've had some terrible Laker/Kobe fans over the years. Some years it was just better to not even visit this thread because of the stupidity they would post. It's improved in the recent years though, but that's because a) we suck b) no more Kobe.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby [Q] on Mon May 29, 2017 4:27 pm

https://twitter.com/Carrastealth/status/868975796659945472
Julius is slowly becoming the next Odom. Quit your hating, Jackal :lol:
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Mon May 29, 2017 9:38 pm

No hate from me on Don Julio, I want him to succeed for sure. He just pisses me off sometimes with his low BBIQ moves when I know he's got the skills to be amazing. It's not hate, its disappointment. /dad

Seriously though, I hope them being together/training together really helps their chemistry and it all translates to the court in fluid offensive and defensive sets minus tunnel vision.
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue May 30, 2017 1:02 am

Otto man is an interesting comparison. He improved his 3pt shot but I see more a bigger Danny green ish player in him

How about tayshaun prince as a comparison? He can initiate offense, has bball smarts, can defend, and of course the lankiness
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Re: Lakers Thread

Postby Jackal on Tue May 30, 2017 3:28 am

That's a really good one indeed. Yeah, that's a really good one. I wonder if he'll be able to put on muscle like Durant or remain as lanky as Prince throughout his career.
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